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Posted: 1/23/2007 12:53 PM
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Mr._Pwnage
Joined: 6/6/2004
Posts: 223
I've found that power bounces seem to be scaled by enemy. The final Bowser tends not to let you get more than 5 hits (you can verify this by using the Double or Nothing badge and noting that after a while you just bounce off, whereas if you mistimed the action you'd get a "MISS" and pass right through the enemy). However, during an exercise to see just how much damage I could deal in a single round, I charged my attack power to 99 and let loose on a hapless Goomba, and managed 101 hits there. So higher-level enemies appear to have an anti-Power-Bounce mechanism that kicks in sooner, and lower-level ones will be long dead before they force you to stop.
Posted: 1/23/2007 5:56 PM
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TGPrimus
Joined: 11/16/2006
Posts: 66
I thought about this and I'm pretty sure you're correct. It might have something to do with the enemy's hp/defense and the number of hits you're actually allowed to get may be somewhat random. I'll have to do more testing on it.
Posted: 2/11/2007 9:40 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I'm just checking to see if there has been any actual progress made on this as of late. :3
Posted: 3/26/2007 1:51 AM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
I wonder: Whether it'd be faster to jump on or hammer a switch. If making negative choices in decisions that do not affect the outcome in any way is quicker sometimes.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 3/26/2007 2:48 AM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
What kind of switches are you talking about? If you are going to keep moving past the switch after hitting it, then you might want to jump so that you bounce forward. If you are detouring to the switch, hammer it (you can hammer out of a spin-dash), and then backtrack. If you are using the jack-in-the-boxes in the Toybox, a hammer is much faster than a spin-jump.
Posted: 3/26/2007 12:46 PM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
Floogal wrote:
What kind of switches are you talking about?
All of them.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 4/23/2007 10:36 PM
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Hina98
Joined: 3/15/2007
Posts: 131
what video plugin are you guys using? I've tried Rice's 6.1.1, Jabo's Direct3D 1.6, Jabo's Direct3D 1.5.2, Glide64 v.07 ME SP8, and glN64 v0.4.1. Rice's and Jabos 1.6 work the best by far, but I get some odd image problems using them both, some sort of weird image overlay. Any advice?
Posted: 4/24/2007 10:58 PM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
I use Glide64 Wonder Plus on the 1964 emulator, and it runs pretty much perfectly. However, I have a Voodoo 3 video card. If you don't have a 3dfx card yourself, then you'll have to also use a wrapper with that plugin, which greatly reduces its effectiveness.
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:49 AM
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Hina98
Joined: 3/15/2007
Posts: 131
I was thinking that it might be prudent to use an emulator that's not mupen when actually playing games, and so I will. I have a fairly new videocard (it's actually only about a month old), but I'm not sure whether or not it hass the support. Thanks though, I was kind of giving up hope on getting a reply :P
Posted: 6/6/2007 8:05 PM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
A small tip but a tip nonetheless: when battling the Goomba Bros, knocking out one of them will send the other into a tearful speech, costing a few seconds. Using a Fire Flower (you can obtain one by using the first spring you see) when they both have 3 HP left lets you avoid their talking. Yet is it truly faster to go a slightly separate route to obtain the Fire Flower?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 6/6/2007 10:32 PM
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A2ZOMG
Joined: 5/30/2007
Posts: 28
Location: Southern California. YAY!
Question: Who should you power up? Powering up party members usually involves going an outlandish route to find a Super Block, and it takes a LOT of frames to power up someone. I hope that maybe in the future, we'll have a better emulator for this. Mupen effs up with this ROM. But this is a speed run that I believe could be incredibly interesting considering its popularity and the amount of strategy that will be involved. I don't think it is worth getting the Fire Flower. You can save frames by killing only one at a time which in exchange for time lost in scrolling through that monologue, also reduces time wasted in enemy phases, even though the battles will still take the same number of turns. But that is just a guess.
Posted: 6/8/2007 2:10 AM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
Consider looking at the latest thread for Paper Mario at SDA. I've been posting my notes about timing battles -- I've been procrastinating at General Guy, as there are just so many different ways to battle. I would defintely get the Fire Flower. The time it takes to detour is less than the time saved in future fights. The question is whether to use the Fire Flower against the Goomba Bros. or another fight (such as the Fuzzies). Oh, and don't bother with trying to avoid the non-dead Goomba Bros.'s speech -- you want to defeat one of them as soon as possible, as their attack animations are rather long compared to the text. Now, in a console run, I think that only Bombette and Parakarry should be boosted, and maybe Watt. But for a TAS... - Bow's Spook can instantly win most non-boss battles, and the running animation is faster than the death animation. Fright Jars would be even better, but detouring to buy/find them would probably not help. - Sushie's Tidal Wave can do up to 13 damage -- a great way to instantly win non-boss battles, while still earning SP.
Posted: 6/8/2007 11:00 AM
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A2ZOMG
Joined: 5/30/2007
Posts: 28
Location: Southern California. YAY!
Ah, the fuzzy fight is definitely a good place to use the Fire Flower. Or the Koopa bros battle (you need two fire flowers, or one + one pow block). I dunno if it is just me, but I think Goombario has advantages in a faster attack that does a lot of damage, considering his headbonk does not use a "charging" action command and deals 6 base damage at ultra level(and multibonk which when used correctly can save a LOT of turns against hard enemies). Is it faster to use Lakilester's Cloud to move on flat ground, or is it faster to spin-jump? What levels should the player gain which stats? If I hazard a guess, I'd say FP, BP, then HP in the first three levels, but I don't know my strategies perfectly.
Posted: 6/8/2007 7:06 PM
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MissileWaster
Joined: 7/9/2006
Posts: 20
Location: Texas
I'd recommend upgrading Lakilester soon after you get him, his Cloud Nine ability could be manipulated to make every attack miss you (it's been a while since I played, but is this and Bow's invisible attack the only ways to make attacks miss?). If this works, you could throw all upgrades into FP and BP with only a few in HP for everything before getting him.
Posted: 6/9/2007 8:07 AM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
From Chapter 3 onwards, all boss battles are going to be dealt with this way: combine Mega Rush & Power Bounce for massive damage. Close Call will prevent all unwanted damage. Later bosses will probably have Mario using Super Jump Charge to reduce the number of bounces he needs to do. Therefore, all level-ups will go into FP (one of the mid-game ones going to BP). For ordinary enemy battles, Power Bomb + item/Star Storm will be used for an instant win. Sushie isn't available until Chapter 5, and using two Super Blocks on her will probably take longer than just detouring for a few attacking items. Riding Lakilester out of battle is only faster when going up/down stairs. Even then, switching to/from him (since we're definitely not using him in any battles) and hopping on/off him could easily negate the speed increase.
Posted: 6/9/2007 9:11 PM
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A2ZOMG
Joined: 5/30/2007
Posts: 28
Location: Southern California. YAY!
Oh my....One HP plus 4 point attack power boost to all attacks + Power Bounce. lolwtf One-turn rape. That would be amazing to watch. Power Bounce can go infinitely on all enemies, right? Question, where do you get the Fire Power badge? If my stipulation is correct, it could save time against Crystal King if nobody has to go an outlandish route to get it. Also, what about Power Rush badge? That one can be used, or can it? Just curious, how is the RNG for misses is manipulated in this game? Now wait, you still get EXP for using Bow's Spook/Fright Jars on enemies? Wouldn't it be a little more time efficient to run away otherwise?
Posted: 6/10/2007 1:28 AM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
I don't know if you can Power Bounce infinitely on everything. Regardless, doing more than 5 or 6 bounces is slower than splitting it up over several attacks or charging the previous round. Fire Power badge? Are you confusing this with Paper Mario Ttyd for the Gamecube? Anyways, the only fire attack that does extra damage to Crystal King is Kooper's Fire Shell. Not worth it. Also, the Power Rush badge is a no-go. Unlike the sequel, it won't stack with the Mega Rush badge. And the Power Rush badge is an insane detour to get, unless you're meaning Mario collecting it himself right before the final fight. When manipulating savestates, it seems that the RNG changes each frame. So simply waiting a few frames before attacking can manipulate whatever you want. Yeah, Bow's Spook, Fright Jars, Lakilester's Hurricane, Parakarry's Air Lift, and the Up and Away star power all defeat enemies without earning star points. But we're not going to be ingaging in optional encounters anyways. There are a bunch of fights against normal enemies that you must beat, and if the SP isn't required, one of these attacks might save time.
Posted: 6/10/2007 3:34 AM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
Uh, I think Close Call only works if you're in danger or peril (ie, your HP is low). One of the two Lucky badges should do the trick though.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 6/11/2007 2:05 AM
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A2ZOMG
Joined: 5/30/2007
Posts: 28
Location: Southern California. YAY!
Yeah, but it seems that we want to purposely have only one HP left so we can take advantage of Mega Rush. Also, you have to go an outlandish route to get the other lucky badges, I think.
Posted: 6/18/2007 9:02 PM
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TGPrimus
Joined: 11/16/2006
Posts: 66
Just some random answers to questions I noted earlier: Power Bounce is not infinite against any enemy, it is related to the power of the enemy (I think) i.e. you can Power Bounce 70 times on a goomba, only 4 or 5 times on Bowser. You can tell whether or not power bounce will keep working by equipping the "all-or-nothing" badge which makes you miss if you miss an action command. If you don't miss on Mario's last bounce, that means it was the last allowed bounce. If you do miss, it means you just screwed up. HP does not need to be upgraded. Find out what badges you're going to use for BP and then pump FP. I'm not positive but I think without any outside leveling up you get to at least level 10 by the end of the game; possibly more, that's just a guess. This should be more than sufficient. Close call works if Mario's HP<5 which is pretty easy to get to with only 10 HP. I'm not sure if it can be manipulated to work every time but it seems like it can. The power badge is almost certainly not worth it, except maybe at the very end. I question the use of the Mega Rush badge. It takes about 30 seconds in exchange for saving a few turns of varying lengths of time in about a dozen battles. While this would almost certainly make up for the time on its own, you have to take into account the fact that Mario needs to be brought to 1 HP before, or during each of these battles which is time-consuming on its own and may even be impossible or require preparations that take even more time. The only way to be certain would be to do the game both ways. I'm not sure which would be faster, I'm just saying that Mega Rush is not guaranteed to be faster. I think upgrading Bow is a good idea; she does 5 damage with a free attack although it takes more time than some of the other characters. That one extra free damage may be key though. There are some upgrade blocks that are not out of the way at all including one in the chapter you get Bow. In particular she is great against the Jr. Troopa that you fight right after the chapter you get her. Other than that I would upgrade Goombario twice, if possible, because he does a lot of damage fast, and Watt twice because she is useful against anything with defense, especially final Bowser. I don't think there is a fire attack badge, but there is an ice attack badge and I don't think it's out of the way. You will actually need the ice attack badge to Power Bounce on Lava Pirahna.
Posted: 6/24/2007 5:54 AM
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IMPblackbelt
Joined: 6/19/2005
Posts: 180
Isn't there a guy in the game that lets you permanently trade your HP for BP or FP? Chet Rippo, I think it was. It's possible to put yourself so that your maximum health is 5 HP, making the badges like Power Rush constantly active. You could do this and manipulate the other badges that have effects when you're at low health, and you'd be practically untouchable. With Bow and all the badges (and maybe a Boo's Sheet here and there), you'd never die. Period.
Posted: 6/25/2007 1:12 AM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
Yes, Chet Rippo is available as early as Chapter 2. He raises your chosen stat 2 levels, but the other stats each go down 1 level. But "Danger Mario" is not nearly as abusive in this game as it is in the sequel. The Power Rush badge (only one in this game) isn't available until Chapter 3, and it requires quite a detour both for Peach and for Mario. And remember that it doesn't stack with Mega Rush.
Posted: 6/25/2007 1:32 AM
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IMPblackbelt
Joined: 6/19/2005
Posts: 180
There are other badges available, though, that take advantage of low health. Close Call is available almost right away, and makes enemies miss when you're low health. I think it stacks with Pretty Lucky, too. You may be right about it, though, since it is a pretty heavy detour. Other effects increase power pretty nicely, so I think it may just be a matter of experimentation.
Posted: 6/26/2007 12:07 AM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
Close Call works fine with 10 HP, as there aren't any OHKO attacks, and subsequent attacks can be luck-missed. I've been slowly typing out a route for a speedrun, and it turns out that it's not too hard to drop Mario's HP to 1 for boss fights. I've got to the end of Chapter 4 planned out. Surprisingly, it takes just less than a minute to detour for the Mega Rush badge & jump on spikes 9 times to prepare for Tubba's Heart.
Posted: 7/19/2007 12:26 AM
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pyromaniac
Joined: 7/18/2007
Posts: 109
i'd love to see this one, i dont care about a lil lag... i would do it myself if i could get mupen64 to work....
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