Posted: 6/24/2007 8:55 AM
Post subject: TAS of TI83 games?
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Dwedit
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Joined: 3/24/2006
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Yes, all the games are freeware and noncommercial, and there is no rerecording TI83 emulator. I'm wondering how many TI83 games could give a good show if TASed. In order to be TASable, the game would have to be the correct genre. It would have to be a non-endless action game (usually). This disqualifies a huge chunk of games, including all "Tunnel" type games, endless puzzle games, and more. There are many more games which are based entirely on the speed of user input, and would be finished in under 10 seconds. I can think of a few obvious games which may be TASable: Sqrxz, Joltima, Dying Eyes, and Bubble Bobble. Only problem with Joltima is that it would end up being a "haha no random battles because I'm maniuplating luck" run, and Bubble Bobble would degrade into an umbrella collecting festival.
Posted: 6/24/2007 2:32 PM
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Warp
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Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
In my experience if you want to make a rerecording emulator for some hardware, you will have to do it yourself (usually by patching an existing open-source emulator). Nobody else will do it for you. Another question is whether TASing freeware games makes too much sense, unless the game is really popular. The problem with most freeware games, especially those for obscure hardware, is that almost nobody has ever played them. The good thing about commercial console games is that there usually is a very large amount of people who have played them and may be interested in seeing a TAS. I'm not saying TI83 TASes shouldn't be published. I'm just raising a question.
Posted: 6/24/2007 2:47 PM
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Chamale
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The main question for luck-manipulation is if the TI83 uses user input or something else for RNG... I have a blackjack game on my calculator. Manipulate for 21, stay, you win.
Posted: 6/24/2007 7:36 PM
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Dwedit
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The TI83's basic interpreter uses number of calls to the rand function to determine the next number it generates. So, if you reset the calc, and run a typical blackjack program, you will get the exact same games each time. Unless the game is specifically designed to include a loop which repeatedly calls rand while waiting for a keypress, then that will randomize things up a bit. The Assembly language programs do things differently. The most common RNGs used incorporate the Z80's R register, which is determined entirely by the total number of instructions executed. Other random number generators include one which samples a random byte within Ram or Rom to try to make things more random, and a few pure RNGs which only use a seed, so are manipulated by number of calls to the RNG. I was not thinking about including any basic programs at all, since I am highly biased against those. (/ASM developer) Maybe some SMS/GG games also use the R register for the RNG, haven't investigated there. So let's say I modified one of the major TI83 emulators to support movie rerecording. So now there's the question of how the run would be timed. Should the timing start from a reset calculator booting, and include slow time it takes to send the Assembly Shell and Program over the link cable? Or should timing start when the program counter is inside the user memory area? (That would be the exact time the user tries to run an ASM shell) Or should the emulator just be smart about it and detect when a program (other than a major ASM shell) sent by the user has started to execute? Then there's the small issue of helper programs which increase or decrease the calc's interrupt speed. Those obviously should be banned. As for popularity, download figures do not accurately measure how many people have linked with each other within a high school. Some TI83 games may be more popular than the download stats suggest. The top downloaded games for the TI8x are: 248,249 - Super Mario 218,214 - Finnpack 170,140 - Jezzball 146,766 - Mega Man 135,053 - Mega Car 128,024 - Puzzpack 117,330 - Phoenix 98,864 - Bubble Bobble 87,699 - ZTetris (Popularity does not equal quality, the Mega Man game royally sucks.) All these games have a significant number of downloads.
Posted: 6/27/2007 3:45 PM
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laughing_gas
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I'd like to see a tas of Ztris that overflows the score counter as fast as possible, although if that involved manipulating straight pieces every time it could get dull.
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Posted: 6/27/2007 5:55 PM
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Titus_Kwok
Joined: 4/30/2006
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Location: the secret cow level
straights aren't going to fill up the screen any faster than any other piece, you just need to manipulate one every once in a while to get a tetris
Posted: 6/27/2007 6:08 PM
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laughing_gas
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Right, but straights allow you to get the earliest tetris, which is what matters.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 6/27/2007 7:47 PM
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Dwedit
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I have confirmed that ZTris gives the exact same pieces the first time you play it, but only when used with any shell other than Venus. edit: Venus initializes the random number generator with the Refresh register R. If used on any other shell, the game is run without initializing the RNG.
Posted: 6/27/2007 8:11 PM
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
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laughing_gas wrote:
Right, but straights allow you to get the earliest tetris, which is what matters.
Do you just mean that because they are longer in the verticle direction, they "land" faster than other pieces?
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 6/27/2007 8:32 PM
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laughing_gas
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Twelvepack wrote:
laughing_gas wrote:
Right, but straights allow you to get the earliest tetris, which is what matters.
Do you just mean that because they are longer in the verticle direction, they "land" faster than other pieces?
No, what I mean is that it takes at least 4(?) rows before a tetris can be made. If you get a lot of crooked pieces, you're gonna have to make the full 4 rows as well as an uneven 5th row, wasting time. Granted it's possible to produce an even 4 rows using pieces besides straights as longs as you don't get the z-shaped pieces every time, but doing that would involve so much planning ahead that manipulating straight pieces every time seems easy in comparison.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 6/27/2007 8:37 PM
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
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It wont make a difference in the long run. The uneven 5th row is just a few squres that you dont need for your next tetris. All that would matter is that the final tetris does not have that sort of 5th row you describe.
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 6/27/2007 8:52 PM
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laughing_gas
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Even then, you'd still have to plan a sequence that forms an even tetris shortly before the score counter overflows, then manipulate those exact pieces to come.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 7/1/2007 3:03 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
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laughing_gas wrote:
Even then, you'd still have to plan a sequence that forms an even tetris shortly before the score counter overflows, then manipulate those exact pieces to come.
This is probably easier to do than manipulate a straight piece every single time.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 8/7/2007 6:09 PM
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wazkatango
Joined: 7/27/2007
Posts: 38
Yeah, Block Dude would rock as a speedrun. Although, i'm pretty sure it doesn't have any "walk through walls" glitches.
TAS: to beat a game faster than Sonic can blink.