Posted: 8/15/2004 4:31 PM
Post subject: Keyboard
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Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
Here's a nice off-topic question. Is there a way to have several buttons on the keyboard pressed at once without the computer beeping at you and preventing some of the buttons from working? (Oh, say, a, b, t, s, k, and f and the same time).
Posted: 8/15/2004 4:37 PM
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Quietust
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250
Not without getting a new keyboard. The actual problem is in the way the keyboard is designed on the hardware level - keys are organized in a matrix, and pressing 2 keys in the same row and 2 in the same column renders it unable to determine which keys are really being pressed (since it will also see the '4th' key in the same rows/columns).
* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
Posted: 8/15/2004 4:38 PM
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Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
Yeah, I just learned that in the mirc channel. Thanks though :) A better question then: What kind of keyboard is made in a way to allow such key presses?
Posted: 8/15/2004 6:49 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Locke wrote:
What kind of keyboard is made in a way to allow such key presses?
Old, expensive keyboards. [nitpick]Also, mirc is a client program (one of them). irc is the internet relay chat system. It is an irc channel, not mirc channel - similarly as we have webpages, not mozillapages.[/nitpick]
Posted: 8/15/2004 6:51 PM
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Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Bisqwit wrote:
Locke wrote:
What kind of keyboard is made in a way to allow such key presses?
Old, expensive keyboards.
I'm glad that I have one of these old , solid and expensive keyboard ;P .
Posted: 8/15/2004 6:54 PM
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Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
Bisqwit wrote:
[nitpick]Also, mirc is a client program (one of them). irc is the internet relay chat system. It is an irc channel, not mirc channel - similarly as we have webpages, not mozillapages.[/nitpick]
Doh!
Posted: 8/15/2004 10:44 PM
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Blublu
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
I have an old KeyTronic keyboard, but apparently it isn't old enough since it stops working if I hold down d, f and g Gaah, now I gotta find me a perfect keyboard. You ruined everything...!
Posted: 8/16/2004 2:21 AM
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air__devil
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 162
This might sound lame but I'm wondering why you wanted to know about the keyboard keys, Locke? (your handle rules btw). I honestly can't think of a reason for wanting to push that many keys at once... but I might just be a lamer! -Ev
Love, Ev
Posted: 8/16/2004 2:28 AM
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NrgSpoon
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
Keyboard as a game controller. Take a game like Super Metroid, where you might want to hold the fire, run, and jump buttons, as well as a direction key or two. It start to add up...
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Posted: 8/16/2004 2:30 AM
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air__devil
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 162
that it does. but that raises another question of why not just use a programable USB controller.... hmmmm
Love, Ev
Posted: 8/16/2004 4:48 AM
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Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
Because I'm too poor to afford any type of PC game controller. All I have is a keyboard and mouse.
air__devil wrote:
(your handle rules btw).
Just so you know, this is from the Ender's Game book series, not FF6 ;)
Posted: 8/16/2004 4:51 AM
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Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
And also, a game controller just isn't practical for first person shooters. Sometimes in TFC I'll be running diagonally, then do a jump+duck while priming a grenade and shooting at someone. I'd end up killing myself if I tried that on anything other than a keyboard and mouse.
Posted: 8/27/2007 5:37 AM
Post subject: Key board buffer question
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
I noticed that when I hold down more then 4 keys at one time, my computer starts making a beeping noise. What affects this? is the number of keys that causes this related to the motherboard? or is there some way of expanding it? [edit by Bisqwit: merged into existing thread about the same topic.]
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 8/27/2007 5:58 AM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
See http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=958 for some information on the matter.
Posted: 8/27/2007 8:16 AM
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P.JBoy
Any
Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Maybe a link to one of these keyboards would be helpful ;-)
Posted: 8/27/2007 9:01 AM
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asteron
Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462
Don't USB keyboards have fewer troubles here than PS/2 keyboards?
This signature is much better than its previous version.
Posted: 8/27/2007 2:03 PM
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anubis
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 138
I believe USB keyboards actually all have a maximum limit of ~5 or 6 keys - something with how the usb connection itself. PS/2 allows for more keys to be pressed, but typically the keyboards themselves don't. If you are using a PS/2 keyboard, chances are that, if you choose the right keys, you can press all the buttons you would need to at once - you just have to change the layout - try moving them to different rows/columns/halves of the keyboard and see if you can find one that works. I learned this the hard way trying to play o2jam (think ddr but with the keyboard and 7 different keys). No matter what key configuration I used, it was impossible to get a USB keyboard to work with pressing 7 keys, but even with new PS/2 keyboards, it is possible by changing the key layout.
Posted: 8/27/2007 2:07 PM
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Raiscan
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
The Zboard supports 7 keypresses at once. Thats about as close as I could get to a keyboard which people here require.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Posted: 8/27/2007 6:12 PM
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Titus_Kwok
Joined: 4/30/2006
Posts: 480
Location: the secret cow level
You could always get yourself a Nostromo Speedpad.
Posted: 8/27/2007 8:52 PM
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Warp
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
If I'm not completely mistaken, there's no limit on the motherboard side on how many keys are pressed at once. In fact, the motherboard doesn't see keys "pressed" in a contiguous fashion. What it sees is that the keyboard sends it atomic codes which tell "this key was pressed" and "this key was released". In other words, when you press a key, and keep it down, only one atomic code is sent by the keyboard to the computer (ie. it doesn't send a signal in a contiguous fashion for as long as the key is pressed). That is, keys are not switches which are on or off, they simply trigger the chip inside the keyboard to send a certain code to the computer. Thus, in theory, there doesn't have to be any limit on how many keys can be pressed at once. You could press all 100+ keys at once and the keyboard could simply send a "key down" signal for each one to the computer, and when you release them, it could send a "key up" for each one. The problem is that building a keyboard which actually can detect all possible combinations of simultaneous keypresses would be quite expensive, as it would need quite a lot of components and logic. Instead, cheap keyboards use electronic shortcuts which require less components and less logic, and which keeps the price of the keyboard at a reasonable level. The drawback of these shortcuts is that the keyboard cannot detect all possible combinations of keypresses. In many cases it's not just limited to how many keys you can press at the same time, but also *which* keys can be pressed at the same time. For example, it may be possible to press 10 certain keys at the same time without problems, but some 4 other keys may trigger the limitation. It all depends on how the keyboard electronics has been designed. I have a very old (>10 years) KeyTronic, and this handles quite a lot of simultaneous key presses at the same time. I suppose that newer and cheaper keyboards may be more limited.
Posted: 8/27/2007 9:32 PM
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Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
Warp wrote:
Instead, cheap keyboards use electronic shortcuts which require less components and less logic, and which keeps the price of the keyboard at a reasonable level.
yeah, except when logitech and microsoft release the same cheap circuits with fancy colors, superfluous "media buttons" and a couple of hype-words for >100€. My old amiga-keyboard allowed more keypresses than I had fingers, but the W key broke from excessive FPSing :( the logitech one I've had since then breaks down after 4 to 6 keys. I've yet to find a keyboard that's good for typing and gaming and doesn't give me overpriced multimedia-crap.
m00
Posted: 8/28/2007 3:45 PM
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Swedishmartin
Joined: 11/26/2005
Posts: 285
I've heard that the Razer Tarantula keyboard supports a lot of keypresses.
Posted: 8/28/2007 5:36 PM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Warp is exactly right. If you want to press 56 Keys at once, get yourself one of these: http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html or http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_80&products_id=199 These are from DIY arcade builders, btw.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.