Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page
Various details
  • Emulator used: Snes9x 1.43v9
  • Sync settings: Use WIP1 timing
Detils of the run:
  • Any% item collection
  • Aims for lowest ingame time
  • Manipulates luck
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Suggested screenshot:
91931 or 112962
About the movie
This is a Any% TAS of Super Metroid, the aim for the movie is lowest possible ingame time thus some realtime sacrifices are made to lower ingame time such as collecting certain items and using a route with more door entry's. The movie is 1477 frames or 24.6 seconds slower in realtime then the currently published any% run which aims for realtime but it is 5271 frames or 87.5 seconds faster in ingame time. The ingame endtime is 24:04:37 and item collection is 22%.
The reason why I choose to aim for the lowest ingame time is because in my opinion it is a little more entertaining to watch both because of the route and more variety in item use. The majority of the improvement came from the route change and the troizo skip, the rest simply comes from new strategies and optimization. It was hard to make this TAS, especially since it is my first one (aside from 3 other "test TASes" I made of this game before this) and Super Metroid is known to be quite a hard game to TAS. Without the help of other released TASes which more in depth learned me the uses of various tricks I would not have been able to make this.
There is (I think) a good chance this movie will not be accepted because I put a higher priority on ingame time then realtime but if that is the case I still hope that as many as possible will be able to enjoy it through SMV anyway.
Thanks to various persons (in no particular order)
Tonski: He was the one whos WIP's made me want to TAS this game, and he has always supported me.
Hero of the day: Have since the release of my first test TAS provided me with tips and help.
Moozooh: His two WIPs and his discovery of the torizo skip helped me alot.
JXQ: I used many strategies from his 100% run.
Saturn: Has invented many tricks which i have used, the shortest charge for an example.
Michale flately: The inventor of many tricks, the armpump and phantoon 1 round most notably.
Terimakashi: He raised the standard for SM TASes and his 00:27 TAS was what first made me interested in TASing.
Frenom: The first (from what i know) SM TASer.
Everyone (I don't know them all by name) who have produced and improved the tools that I have used, the memory watcher and all the snes9x improvements.
White Angel for having a godlike patience with me playing SM all the time.
Everyone whom I have forgotten are also Thanked, contact me if you feel that you deserve to be thanked.
Truncated: I think it is unfortunate that this movie aims for in-game time instead of real time. It cannot be published along with the current any%, because I do not think real/in-game time should be a valid differentiation between runs of the same game.
Therefore we are reinstating an old tradition at nes...tasvideos, to not publish an AVI or make a separate entry for a movie, but to link it from the current entry in emulator movie format only. Like I said to moozooh, don't think of it as a rejection, think of it as a non-publication.
Bisqwit: Setting the state to "cancelled" instead of "published" for technical and consistency reasons. It will still continue to be linked from the publication of that other movie.

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Posted: 9/5/2007 1:54 AM
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Lord_Tom
He/Him
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Joined: 5/25/2007
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Location: New England
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Both runs rock. I prefer real-time to in-game time because that's the length of what you actually end up watching. That said, I'm new here but I think too much emphasis on the exact time NEEDING to be faster is misplaced. What's 20-25 seconds in a half-hour run if it showcases clearly superior techniques that are significant to gameplay and entertaining to watch? My case study here is the NES A Boy & His Blob Run. Wow, it's fast, but you watch a sprite run on flat ground for a minute, the game glitches, and it's over. An impressive technical achievement, but entertaining...?
Posted: 9/6/2007 10:31 AM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1432)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
Lord Tom wrote:
My case study here is the NES A Boy & His Blob Run. Wow, it's fast, but you watch a sprite run on flat ground for a minute, the game glitches, and it's over. An impressive technical achievement, but entertaining...?
Yeah this is the reason why I did not do the X-ray glitch any%. (that plus the run already being worked on)
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 9/6/2007 9:27 PM
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Bob_A
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
voted yes. it was well optimised and quite entertaining.
Posted: 9/6/2007 9:39 PM
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TGPrimus
Joined: 11/16/2006
Posts: 66
As usual we have the argument of sacrificing some speed to showcase an interesting game feature or something like that. For this particular run I believe this is something of a non-issue because the real-time run has plenty of technical entertainment as well. I have not actually watched this run and I won't vote on it. I don't like to discredit anyone's hard work either, but I don't think this run is for this site considering what we already have.
Posted: 9/6/2007 9:51 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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TGPrimus wrote:
I don't think this run is for this site considering what we already have.
Could you elaborate?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 9/6/2007 11:05 PM
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Callmewoof
Joined: 5/11/2006
Posts: 71
Voting Yes Entertaining? Yes Obsolete existing any% run? I don't know After reading the posts about In-time vs. Real-time, I have personally come to the conclusion that it matters only on a per-game basis. It seems quite a large claim to say that allowing this game is changing the standards of this site. I am not debating whether this run should be accepted or not. I am simply presenting facts which should be taken into consideration. Quotes from TAS Guidelines (I'm aware these are GUIDELINES not RULES, aka Captain Barbosa) "Choose goals that will make the run entertaining. For most games, a “fastest at any cost” mentality is best"-is it entertaining? yes -does this guildline specify 'fastest REAL TIME/IN GAME TIME'? no it doesn't... leaving this open to imagination, possibly "Do not impose artificial restrictions on the run. Such as "I will use all weapons except this one" See published: SNES "minimalist" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) in 51:05.75 by T.S. (aka. Terimakasih) (quote: The only beams used are Charge and Ice) -does this break the spirit of this guideline? somewhat -then why is this acceptable? it was judged on a per-game basis "...include with your primary goal something like “as fast as possible” if speed is a reasonable factor in the entertainment of the run."-is speed is involved in the entertainment? does it specify real/game speed? Yes, No "Generally, to avoid redundancy, we only consider extreme cases (low% and 100%) as well as fastest possible (any%). These cases are not necessarily mutually exclusive (e.g. the fastest possible could be collecting no items). In some cases, we do not consider one of the extremes, or even any extremes at all. The exact definitions of these extreme cases is game-dependent."-this one speaks for itself... however it mentions that the general idea of TAS'ing is on a PER-GAME-BASIS... which if you'll notice some of the posts on this submission go against, i.e. 'accepting this game would change the entire website's standards', or 'shouldn't be more than 2 runs for any game', etc. From the Rules: "We do not accept hacked games (graphics hacks, level hacks, music or sound hacks, dialog hacks and so on). [2] This rule can only be bent by special permission"-another point that this run should be judged on a per game basis. It's not a hack but the spirit of the rule is per game basis. See: Submission #1666: emu's Genesis Mickey Mania in 20:42.37 "This is a... 3342 frames (55.7 sec) improvement to the currently published run of the game Mickey Mania for the genesis. The movie file is 4637 frames (77.3 sec) longer than the published run, since it includes input, which is required during the credits to watch the full ending."-an accepted movie which is LONGER real time, SHORTER in-game time. The reason for the difference? ENTERTAINMENT -compare with this metroid run: "The movie is 1477 frames or 24.6 seconds slower in realtime then the currently published any% run... it is 5271 frames or 87.5 seconds faster in ingame time". The reason for the difference? ENTERTAINMENT -The mickey run was 77.3 seconds longer than the published and was accepted. This metroid run is only 24.6 seconds longer and is being heavily debated. -a slower movie being accepted? why? it was judged on a per game basis. I say, let this run be judged fairly according to the rules, guidelines, and prior cases. If this is rejected, let it be for the right reasons. Don't condone it based solely on a giant blanket statement about time, or TAS'ing as a whole.
Samus taught us that a girl doesn't need brains to be successful. Brains are giant, evil, and vulnerable to missiles.
Posted: 9/6/2007 11:24 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Callmewoof wrote:
"Do not impose artificial restrictions on the run. Such as "I will use all weapons except this one" See published: SNES "minimalist" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) in 51:05.75 by T.S. (aka. Terimakasih) (quote: The only beams used are Charge and Ice) -does this break the spirit of this guideline? somewhat -then why is this acceptable? it was judged on a per-game basis
Nope, I think you misunderstood the category that particular movie competes in. As Metroid games have always been item-driven adventure games, it's obvious not every item is needed for their completion. As such, "lowest amount of items needed to complete the game" emerged and became a separate completion category (long before this site appeared). The run in question is an example of such "low%" category, and thus doesn't include any uncommon arbitrary rules (using only Charge and Ice is a result of reduced item set). However, It's right that not every game allows entertaining low% runs (assessing the per-game basis argument), but since Metroid games are generally well-thought out and entertaining to watch, there have been a low% run published or in production for all items of the series. Though it should be noted that TASVideos operated on per-game basis right from the start, so it's nothing worth pointing out, really — it's a common knowledge.
Callmewoof wrote:
I say, let this run be judged fairly according to the rules, guidelines, and prior cases. If this is rejected, let it be for the right reasons. Don't condone it based solely on a giant blanket statement about time, or TAS'ing as a whole.
I agree. Moreover, there are two points by which I think this movie should be accepted: 1) it's faster than the current published one where they are directly comparable (by about 30 seconds overall, no matter ingame or realtime); 2) since all the published movies preceding Hero's latest run prioritized the ingame time as their goal, it won't be unusual to publish this one, nor will it change any standards (I see this as a non-issue, really), rather it will show some variety. After all, no-one's stopping a new realtime-oriented any% run obsolete it on grounds of being more optimized (how to determine that has already been discussed, so it's not a problem at all).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 9/6/2007 11:32 PM
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Callmewoof
Joined: 5/11/2006
Posts: 71
Sorry for focusing so heavy on the per game basis, which is a somewhat common knowledge around here, except that I noticed many people posting seemed to have a 'one rule covers all' mentality about the game-time and stuff...
Samus taught us that a girl doesn't need brains to be successful. Brains are giant, evil, and vulnerable to missiles.
Posted: 9/7/2007 1:05 PM
Post subject: opinion
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Bisqwit
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(originally written in IRC as response to evilchen's query) My preference is ① realtime ② entertainment with a certain overlap, i.e. entertainment can outweigh some cost of realtime. Gametime does not enter the equation. If aiming for game time causes a loss in both entertainment and realtime, it's a bad thing. (I recall the murder beam, which helps gametime, costs some in realtime and is definitely less interesting to watch). In Cpadolf's submission, I am not aware what is the impact on entertainment* caused by the decision to prioritize gametime. ― If it results in better entertainment, it is a good idea. ― From what I hear, more time spent transitioning doors and less time spent doing stuff, it may be a bad idea instead. People rejected Star Control II because it spent lots of time traversing the space instead of doing interesting stuff… (Of course the ratio is way different here.) *) I don't count numbers as entertainment. I only care about the audiovisual performance.
Posted: 9/7/2007 2:59 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1432)
Joined: 7/15/2007
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SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
IMO going for ingame time in Super Metroid costs no entertainment (I like this route better for entertainment) obviously though many disagree. The only reason my run is longer is because of 4 more item collections and more door transitions and this is obviously another point where many strongly disagree with me but if I would watch a run of this game purely for entertainment I would not be able to tell the difference from 18 item collections and 22 or between 150 and 180 door transitions (not real numbers).
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 9/7/2007 5:38 PM
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Warp
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Callmewoof wrote:
"Do not impose artificial restrictions on the run. Such as "I will use all weapons except this one" See published: SNES "minimalist" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) in 51:05.75 by T.S. (aka. Terimakasih) (quote: The only beams used are Charge and Ice) -does this break the spirit of this guideline? somewhat -then why is this acceptable? it was judged on a per-game basis
I think that the meaning of that rule is: "If you are going to impose some restrictions on your run, ie. you are not making an 'any-%, anything-goes' run, the restrictions should be rational and make sense". For example, "don't use the death-warp glitch which allows skipping 90% of the game" is a rational restriction. It has a clear and rational goal: To show a TAS of the *entire* game (and not just 10% of it). Another rational limitation is "must collect all items". This is in the same spirit as the "100% speedruns" in the regular speedrunning community. What the rule speaks against is making artificial restrictions which don't make sense. For example "I avoid using this weapon, even though using it would make the run 1 second shorter". There's no rational reason to do that. It's not a desirable goal to aim for. It doesn't add to the run.
Posted: 9/8/2007 5:46 PM
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Truncated
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Callmewoof: >does this break the spirit of this guideline? - somewhat I don't think low% is an artificial restriction, especially not when it is mentioned in the guidelines (which you even quoted) as a reasonable goal: "Generally, to avoid redundancy, we only consider extreme cases (low% and 100%) as well as fastest possible (any%)." >an accepted movie which is LONGER real time, SHORTER in-game time. The reason for the difference? ENTERTAINMENT That is not a good example, since the game is completed a lot faster in the new Mickey Mania movie. This is not the case here. Slower movies which improves entertainment have been accepted before, see Mortal Kombat 2. I don't see how watching more door transitions make this movie more entertaining. I also don't see what the rules for hacks have to do with anything. ----- On a completely different note, I think "RetardHitler" (which is how I interpret the submitters nickname) is a much less appropriate name than GodHand, or whatever that name that got rejected before was.
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:02 PM
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moozooh
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Truncated wrote:
I don't see how watching more door transitions make this movie more entertaining.
Wow, talk about one-sided arguments.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:12 PM
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Cpadolf
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This is actually the first (of 15 or so) site that has had anyone at all comenting my name in such a way... Either people is ignorant or no one cares. The only reason for this route isn't entertainment. (though perhaps I have made it sound so I don't know) It has a different goal then the other any% and that goal is best fullfilled with this route. I understand though why Hero's goal is more largly apreciated and that this might not be as good of a fit for a fourth SM run then the upcomming "Glitched out fast as possible any% NoBoss/MiniBoss" run.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:59 PM
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hero_of_the_day
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Just out of curiosity, how does Cpadolf translate to RetardHitler?
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 9/8/2007 7:09 PM
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Truncated
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cp is a common swedish insult meaning retard, idiot (from Cerebral Palsy). Basically noone is named Adolf anymore, at least not here (it used to be a pretty common jewish name). I think you can understand why - it is forever associated with Hitler. Interesting graph: name popularity
Posted: 9/8/2007 7:10 PM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
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hero of the day wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how does Cpadolf translate to RetardHitler?
By association. Certainly it is what I think of when I see the name.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/8/2007 7:54 PM
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Kyrsimys
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Wasn't GodHand discarded because it was ambiguous? Had it been DivineLimb, it would probably have been ok. Or was Bisqwit offended by the god thing, was that it? In any case, I don't see absolutely anything wrong with Cpadolf. To me, Cp doesn't imply cerebral palsy. To do that, it should be CP.
Posted: 9/9/2007 12:48 AM
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Warp
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Truncated wrote:
Slower movies which improves entertainment have been accepted before, see Mortal Kombat 2.
That's more of an exception than a rule, though. With Mortal Kombat 2 specifically, it makes a whole lot of sense to show the most convoluted and glitched special moves as possible, regardless of how much time it requires to perform them (but still avoiding sloppy play, ie. waiting for no good reason). It's just a game where it makes a lot of sense. It can hardly be called a tool-assisted *speedrun*, as it's more like a tool-assisted machinima. Whether "minimize the game's own time counter" is an acceptable goal is a rather interesting question, especially if it really is so that you could minimize that counter at great expense of wallclock time (by abusing some pause screens or such). Personally I would certainly not want to watch a video which is 1 hour longer than it could be, just to save a few seconds of the game's internal time counter.
Posted: 9/9/2007 12:52 AM
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moozooh
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Hence why there is no such movie. :P
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 9/9/2007 1:52 AM
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nitsujrehtona
Joined: 3/17/2007
Posts: 97
Location: Berkeley, CA
This submission looked more precise than the published run and about equally stylish. After carefully watching both, I'm voting yes. Good job, Cpadolf. The next time an any% run is submitted, everybody will remember the reasons behind its performance in the polls and in the judges' eyes. Thus, I think that too much attention is being paid to the route or some phantom precedents that might be set, rather than the movie's enjoyability. Moreover, it's not contradictory to think this should obsolete the published run and (probably) in turn be obsoleted by Hero's improved realtime run.
IRC nick: UncombedCoconut
Posted: 9/9/2007 1:12 PM
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P.JBoy
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How come we didn't have this discussion going on with Hero's run and the in-game to real-time change
Posted: 9/9/2007 1:17 PM
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Fredrik
Joined: 12/7/2005
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Location: Sweden
Probably because hero's run was faster than the previous run on both counts.
Posted: 9/9/2007 2:41 PM
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Baxter
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TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
I really appreciate your effort, but after giving it more thought, I'm gonna vote no. I think the goal is less interesting than Hero's movie, and the total length is longer. Therefor I enjoy Hero's movie more and it's faster... so I don't think this movie should obsolete Hero's movie. IF people who know more about the game than I do think this run is significantly different to warrant its own category, AND they can convince the people who make decisions that this should be published alongside Hero's movie, I would support that.
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 9/9/2007 3:46 PM
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Warp
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Location: Finland
Baxter wrote:
IF people who know more about the game than I do think this run is significantly different to warrant its own category, AND they can convince the people who make decisions that this should be published alongside Hero's movie, I would support that.
If this movie is published I will certainly watch it with interest. I'm just not completely sure about the sensibility of the goal of the movie which, if I haven't understood completely wrongly, seems to be some kind of mix between minimizing the game's internal timer and real-time, without really perfecting either. The actual goal seems a bit undefined. I'm wondering if this won't set some kind of problematic precedent. (I envision future arguments of the type "hey, that supermetroid video was published, why not this one?")
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