Posted: 11/15/2007 12:14 AM
Post subject: Question about two players.
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
I have a question about the using two players. I'm working on Kirby's dream land 3. It is a one player run. Player two can be created as a helper. What I'm wondering if it would still be considered a one player run if I only made my helper twice in the entire game to save time. He would only be out for a few seconds before I get rid of him. granted, it would save a ton of time, so I'm not sure if it should be allowed. I'm currently trying to find a glitch that may let me get through the part without using player two, but no luck so far. I'm hoping I can find a glitch though since it would be the greatest moment of the whole movie if I could find one. I'm only thinking of using player two as a last resort.
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Posted: 11/15/2007 5:14 AM
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Chamale
He/Him
Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
Sometimes, when there is a huge difference between 1 player or 2 player runs, tasvideos will publish 2 different videos. It's pretty rare for 2 players to be considered unacceptable, so I think it's OK.
Posted: 11/15/2007 5:22 AM
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Sticky
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1365
Location: Minnesota
I dunno, chamale, it seems to me that if there are two players used (regardless of how long their duration may be) it should be labeled 2 player. i think this just clears up any misleadings when someone comes to this site to view what appears to be a 1 player game, and turns out two are used. granted i dont know why anyone would be bothered by this, but figured i would throw out my view any ways :P
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Posted: 11/15/2007 6:13 AM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/216522824/Kirby%27s%20Dream%20Land%20hj%20%28U%29.smv This is what I use him for. While making this short clip, I made a recording mistake and now have to redo half of a level. All I do is have gooey take the fish and use his warping to take the fish past the small path that would take an extra minute or two to do normally. I then use his A button to kill himself. Player two uses a total of 2 buttons in two levels. Player two only presses 4 buttons through out the whole run. Does that still count as two player? I don't even have him move around. 4 buttons hardly qualifies for a 2 player run catagory compared to what a real two player run would be like. And I've already decided to do it this way anyways now. I will now have to redo half a level just because I made that clip.
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Posted: 11/15/2007 8:44 AM
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Mukki
Skilled player (1098)
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
GBA TASer of 2012 GBA TAS of 2012 Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011 N64 TASer of 2007
This will certainly make it a two player run because one player is controlling two characters. The fact that it is used to save time makes it even more clear. In my opinion, even if the second player had no time saving purpose and was purely stylistic I'd still consider it a two player run. Having said that, why need you only use the second player once? Even if it doesn't save time elsewhere you may be able to do some cool things with it without losing time.* *DISCLAIMER: I have never seen or played this game and so do not know if this is feasible.
http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html
Posted: 11/15/2007 5:01 PM
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Blublu
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Well, I for one see no reason to make a 1-player run if a 2-player run is faster.
Posted: 11/15/2007 5:10 PM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
the reason for my making a one player run is because this is my very first tas, and one can hardly expect my first one to be two player. I'm seriously considering quitting though. These comments haven't been too much help to me in the motivation department.
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Posted: 11/15/2007 7:17 PM
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Blublu
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
I'm sorry. I did not intend to sound mean or discouraging. Yes, it is true that it is very hard to make a proper 2-player TAS, especially for a SNES game what with 4 more buttons than NES for each controller. However, if the game is actually ideally suitable for a 2-player run, and you made a 1-player run, the run would not reach its full potential, right? You could of course still make it and share it with others and enjoy it a lot.
Posted: 11/15/2007 7:45 PM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
Try not to get too discouraged, the first one you do has the highest learning curve. But one of the things that is discouraged around here is "fuzzy" goals. If this run uses a second player on a couple of occasions when it saves a lot of time, but doesn't use it on multiple other occasions that might only save a little time, it has a fuzzy goal. It can't be published as a one player movie because the contribution from player 2 may make impossible to obsolete it without a similar trick. However, if player 2 is only used for the couple of large time savers, and not for those smaller improvements, it may not be seen as optimal enough to be published as a 2 player run. However this is only an issue if there's no way using player 2 in other places will save time. If the couple of major time savers are the only place that player 2 is actually help at all, then throw in those 4 frames of input, submit it as a two person run, and be happy it's done. There's nothing wrong with only using that character a little bit, however there's a lot wrong in not using the character as much as possible. Entertainment with player 2 is another issue, but don't worry about that, it's your first TAS. Also, I don't know enough about the game or your run to know which instance is appropriate. If you find that more time is saved using player 2, don't be afraid to start over. I've had 4 runs published, and 3 of them had to have complete overhauls after I was done with the entire thing. Yeah, it sucks, and yeah it's frustrating, but keep with it.
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Posted: 11/15/2007 8:40 PM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
Sorry blublu. I just had a rough night last night. that's all. Sorry if I was a bit crude with ya. :) I guess I'll just not use the player two since there are a lot of places he could help, and it would make things confusing. I'll just continue on as one player. I'm still a bit messed up today though. I'm having my 20 year old cat put down today. I've had her my whole life, so it's quite a shock. I'll continue on with my run still. I am full aware that it might not get published (which would really suck) so I'm trying my best to make it interesting. My question has been answered. Thanks.
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Posted: 11/16/2007 1:18 AM
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Chamale
He/Him
Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
:( I'm very sorry to hear about your cat dying, Pekopon. But I hope you will be able to finish the run soon, it sounds interesting. A one-player run should be acceptable, and maybe later you could make a two-player run when you have more experience with TASing.
Posted: 11/16/2007 1:38 AM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
Thanks. I'm actually pleased I had to redo that level since I was able to improve one of the rooms significantly. Whenever there is a current in water, you have to swim in it the whole time. I hope I can finish this run too. the room where I would have used two players actually turned out really well considering what has to be done with one player. Some weird thing happened while jumping off of a guy in the water that gave me a longer jump. Don't know if it saved any time, but it looked neat. I'm sad to say though, that the part of the level I'm at now, is the beginning of really hard stuff for quite some time. there's one level and a boss after where I am until I get to world 3, Sand Canyon. Sand Canyon is by far the world I've planed the least on. The last level in that world is especially tricky since there are several paths you have to go, and I need to sort out what the best order to go to them is. So I may be procrastinating a bit. I think if I were to do another run after this, it would probably be the same run, seeing if I could improve it. I know that the final boss is going to be a nightmare. (of course there are like, three final bosses) :P
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Posted: 11/16/2007 2:13 AM
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Titus_Kwok
Joined: 4/30/2006
Posts: 480
Location: the secret cow level
I seem to remember that the 1-player run of Sonic 3 & Knuckles was obsoleted by a run that used Tails on occasion, so as long as you make use of P2 whenever it seems appropriate it should be a non-issue.
Posted: 11/16/2007 10:31 PM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
well, like I said, I got through that place pretty quickly for the one player route, so I'm pleased with that. I'm also pleased to say I've devised a clever plan for fighting acro.
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