Post by Cpadolf

Posted: 9/1/2007 9:12 PM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1432)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

ZOMG already at torizo? Can you even get stuck in the door? If so and if only very little more distance is needed remember to unspin to get hit 1 frame earlier. Also experiment to see if it's possible to get more height before collecting the bombs.

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 9/1/2007 10:04 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Tonski wrote:

Is underwater CWJ possible? What about in lava? (with/without gravity?)

IIRC, there is no speed underwater or in lava, only momentum. Hence, no point in CWJ.

Tonski wrote:

Moozooh, smart thinking! That'll probably be pretty helpful, thanks.

Yes, that's how I sequence broke it when playing. I needed 10 super missiles, IIRC.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 9/2/2007 10:13 AM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/546603781/Tonski%20-%20Super%20Metroid%20Impossible%20TAS.smv Ceres done. :) I kinda had to do that steam boost in the second last room on my own, since other steams blocked my way. I guess I figured it on my own. EDIT: Sorry CPadolf didn't see your post. :/ No I'm not at Torizo yet, but I'm experimenting a lot of stuff about this hack while I'm not TASing it. I can't even get stuck on the door, and I think you can't skip torizo in this hack. Though I'm not saying it's impossible, I just think with the tricks we know now at least I can't do it.

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/2/2007 11:34 AM

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Tub

Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377

Tonski, there's already an unoptimized run with savestate-abuse on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=morJwJyrd24 it'll show the SJ sequence break and maybe other tiny things that can help you.

m00

Posted: 9/2/2007 11:39 AM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1432)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

Yes I belive that he is going to folow that route with minor changes if I have understod correctly, just skipping some missiles and possibly energy tanks and doing everything smother and faster. Also Tonski remember to abuse underwater walljump in order to pass some maridia rooms much quicker.

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 9/2/2007 1:25 PM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

Tub, here's a quote of the description of that video: "This gameplay uses savestates, which are everything when playing this hack. However, this is not a TAS ( http://tasvideos.org/FAQ.html )." I'm familiar with that run though, I'm doing as CPadolf said; same route with some missile tanks (possibly etanks) skipped, and much faster and smoother. CPadolf, in which rooms should I be using the underwater walljump? Also I don't know how to do it, but that's not something I need to know at the moment, as I haven't yet fought even Bomb Torizo. As for my progress, I'm already in the vertical pirate shaft with missiles and morph ball. I think I'm doing pretty well, figured some ways to collect the items quick, not hitting any spikes. There's only 3 rooms left before Torizo fight though, and I've never fought a boss with tool-assistance. Would you guys give me some tips regarding this fight? :)

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/2/2007 1:42 PM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1432)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

About the fight I don't know, I never was really good at this one since both my seriouse TASes uses the skip, but I'd say that you should make him throw balls as fast as possible then manipulate the drops for many missiles and simply shoot him as fast as possible. Underwater walljumping could most noteably be used in the room where you are suposed to climb on snails and it is preformed so that you need to directly after each walljump change direction to towards the wall then away from it again so the game checks for blocks to walljump on, this hinders you from moving away from the wall and thus you can continiously jump on one wall.

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 9/2/2007 6:29 PM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

Ok I'm at Bomb Torizo now and for this a few pointers from you guys would be appreciated, since I've never fought this boss using frame advance.

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/2/2007 6:40 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Watch Saturn's Torizo fight, it should be pretty self-explanatory for the most part. Weapon cooldown and boss invincibility addresses are your friends.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 9/3/2007 5:47 AM

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Bob_A

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432

i suppose this is a good time to say that im not planning on continuing my run anymore, tho i did do one more room: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1874671917/Super%20Metroid%20Impossible%20v1.5.smv tonski: you might want to look at my run if you havent already. i think i got the torizo fight pretty optimal. also, theres at least one trick i can think of, which involves an easy and efficient (i.e., resource conserving) way to kill golden torizo. ill post about it when i get around to remembering/figuering out what it was. other than that, good luck on your run.

Posted: 9/3/2007 7:19 AM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1432)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

Tonski: I since you are not going for crazy optimization you should consider doing some speed/entertainment tradeoffs, like putting cool CWJ's where it might acually be slightly slower and soforth. Obviously though you should only do it where it costs little time.

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 9/3/2007 3:44 PM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/275863798/Tonski%20-%20Super%20Metroid%20Impossible%20TAS.smv Here's the first actual WIP I'm releasing of this run, already did the Bomb Torizo, but thanks for the smv anyway Bob A. :) I think the Torizo fight is pretty good, but I'm no master in TASing. I'm now already in Gauntlet, where I have a question for you: Should I just wait until the acid goes down, because I'm on 59energy and the acid pretty much kills me in seconds. I guess I don't have any other ways of going forward unless you got some ideas? Enjoy my work so far.

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/3/2007 4:10 PM

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evilchen

Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann

wow cool torizo rape tonski keep going i like that wip :D

https://www.youtube.com/user/armitageyt

Posted: 9/4/2007 6:10 PM

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Quietust

He/Him

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250

Any particular reason why you shoot the bomb torizo while it's jumping? As a result, it takes it longer to hit the ground and attack, making it take longer to get missiles with which to speedily kill it. I observed this tactic the normal Super Metroid run as well (before the NTSC bomb torizo skip trick was discovered), so I'm curious why it wasn't used here as well.

* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another

Posted: 9/4/2007 6:34 PM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

Ummm... I guess there isn't any reason, just me not thinking stuff through and making the run few frames slower? I'm not aiming for very tight optimizations, so I'm not going to redo the fight because I did a mistake. I'm finished with Gauntlet and am now in Green Brinstar. I'm proceeding with the run nicely.

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/5/2007 5:38 AM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1432)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

Really nice Torizo fight Tonski, no matter if it was "perfect" or not it was very entertaining. The only thing you could have done that might have helped you later was that even from the exact same boost spot you could have picked up 99 hp with a low boost (hold forward for a few frames) but that's probably to late now.

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 9/5/2007 8:39 AM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

Yeah, it was only later until I realized that, a bad mistake. :-( But if it would've been slower in the end I don't think I'm going to be to sad about it. There's always the chance it would've gotten me a second damage boost from those green pirates (2nd last room before green brinstar elevator) and would have been faster, but again it's too late now and I think I've gotten some nice strategies. I think I'll be at Spore Spawn pretty quick, but have no smv's on how to TAS the fight. My guess is that I can shoot pretty many missiles inside it in one round, but even that way I wouldn't know how many is the limit and how many rounds would it take. Saturn's SS match in Redesign WIP took 2 rounds if I recall correct, but if in Impossible his health has been increased then I guess 3 rounds? I'm very glad you liked the fight CPadolf. :) I'm thinking on the moment when to release the next WIP. EDIT: Current progress - at Spore Spawn. I think this fight is harder than Bomb Torizo so if you could give some tips? I'll try to figure some stuff on my own too though.

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/5/2007 2:20 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Tonski wrote:

Current progress - at Spore Spawn. I think this fight is harder than Bomb Torizo so if you could give some tips? I'll try to figure some stuff on my own too though.

It's actually easier. His opening cycles are fixed once you enter the room (although they still depend on how many missiles you will pound into him each round), IIRC. What you need to do is: see where it opens the mouth the next time, position yourself. In case you don't need to jump to reach him, shoot the first missile from as high distance as possible so that the cooldown would allow you to fire the next shot sooner, and pound missiles into him. The last missile should always be dopplered. In case you need to jump, take a damage boost just before he opens his mouth, then jump into his sprite and fire the missiles as fast as you can. Note the amount of energy he has and how much damage can you deal with either method.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 9/5/2007 2:42 PM

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evilchen

Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann

try using the turnarround animation for the last blow to give him some more missiles while being inside of him (turn arround animation to NOT get knocked back) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1532799319/tonski.smv ignore the first 2 missiles try to get more in than me like in the second cycle (kill him 2 rounds if the missile damage and his life are equal to the normal SM)

https://www.youtube.com/user/armitageyt

Posted: 9/6/2007 2:24 PM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

Thanks again guys, I'm now done with Spore Spawn and am at the missiles after him. :) I 2 rounded him, 5 missiles a round. His health is 960 and missiles do 100 damage. Had some troubles with getting 5 missiles a round in the beginning but finally got it to work. I even optimized some rooms before Spore Spawn in Pink Brinstar because of sloppy refils and saved a whole 2 seconds! Hero thanks for saying about walljumping from a door in CPadolf's submission, it saved me a frame or two I think. :) Ok now I'm thinking about when to release the next WIP, how far do you guys want to see the run, because at certain point I wont post anymore of 'em to keep rest of the run surprising. :) I hope Saturn would come back where ever he is, he sure would have ideas as it's his hack.

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/6/2007 3:49 PM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (88)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

Hey Tonski, I like what I have seen so far. Keep up the great work. The walljump from the door idea was actually found by evilchen, it is a clever little timesaver.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 9/6/2007 4:34 PM

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Tonski

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa

Thanks Hero, it sure is. And I hope you're going to like even more what you're about to watch hopefully: Super Metroid Impossible TAS WIP 2 This is probably my finest work ever in TASing, really. In Gauntlet there are easily improvable spots but I didn't test all the possible strategies, and in many places it was faster to take damage from acid for 1-2 frames. This run stops 1 room before Red Brinstar. Spore Spawn is one great fight, another TAS fight I'm kinda proud of. Enjoy the WIP. And please give some comments, all of them are welcome.

<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.

Posted: 9/6/2007 9:49 PM

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Bob_A

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432

it looks was well done. i look forward to seeing some more.

Posted: 5/28/2008 8:30 PM

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Tub

Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377

syncs fine with Impossible 1.5. Nice health and ammo management, I liked the close call at ridley's doorstep. I also liked the cute little tricks you used that find no use in regular SM. Why didn't you get space jump early though? Turned out to be slower?

m00