Post subject: Clash at Demonhead
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Anyone ever think about runs for these three? Personally, I'm no good at Demonhead, and Olympus doesn't seem to wanna run in VirtuaNES. I can't control worth a flop with my Keyboard, so I dunno if Famtasia will run it. Kickle Cubicle, though, I remember being fairly good at. It wasn't that hard a game, it was just really, really LONG. How many worlds did it have, anyway? Five or six, wasn't it? D'really need to do some fancy stuff for an interesting Kickle run, admittedly. And ever since I saw the Megaman II (Rockman World II) speed run over at the SDA, I've been hoping someone would do runs for the other four. The first was especially brutal, given the tiny size you were forced to play in combined with the overall amount of hits enemies needed. Of course, for the RW series, VBA would need rerecording functions to make for a truly interesting run, I guess. But still... -- BAH
Former player
Joined: 4/8/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Majorca
I'm doing a movie with Battle of Olympus(jap version) i'm already at the last level and i think i'll be able to do it under 25'. Edit: DONE!! No way it can be done under 25', one of the last bosses is very time consuming cause i didn't get the weapon needed to kill it faster but overall it's worth not getting the best sword in the game nor any power ups, and for the time, i managed to get it done in 27'42''.
Kage bunshin no jutsu!!!
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Olympus works in Famtasia, huh? Groovy o.o I finally remember the fourth game I'd really love seeing a run on - Legacy of the Wizard. I dunno if it was the father's Evil Power Glove or Pochie the Monster-Dog-Thing that made me never beat the game... but I honestly had no friggin' clue where to go in that game.
Joined: 5/9/2004
Posts: 7
BombAHead wrote:
Olympus works in Famtasia, huh? Groovy o.o I finally remember the fourth game I'd really love seeing a run on - Legacy of the Wizard. I dunno if it was the father's Evil Power Glove or Pochie the Monster-Dog-Thing that made me never beat the game... but I honestly had no friggin' clue where to go in that game.
Legacy of the Wizard is hell. You need to map out every last corner of that game on a piece of paper to even begin to stand a chance.
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Indeed. I think I got to a boss or something once, but he killed me in no time flat. >< Not good voodoo. I've seen seperate NESticle movies for certian sections of the game, but they were short and didn't cover much at all, unfortunately.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 152
Location: Australia
Battle of Olympus "does" run in VirtuaNES, you just need to find the appropiate ROM, use the European version, it works fine for me.
G1MM3 4 BR34|C!
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
The USA Battle of Olympus also runs in my Famtasia without problem.
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2004
Posts: 8
Location: Fukui, Japan
Hey all - has anyone else had any problems getting Clash at Demonhead working in Famtasia? It seems to work fine in VirtuaNES but when I pause/unpause it in Famtasia it screws up and I end up falling into a pit.
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I really don't like bumping threads, but I'll make an exception. I definitely think a clash at demonhead run needs to be done. One route is unique from the next, and you'd gather awesome items along the way. I'm not really one for planning fastest routes, so for those that are familiar with the game, any insights? I know pretty much nothing about the game- I last played it seriously about 10 years ago, so there may be certain factors which don't qualify it for an entertaining movie, but if we could plan the fastest way from route to route, while at the same time maximizing speed boots, I think it'd look great. There is probably some helpful stuff on gamefaqs, but it's down at the moment.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
I would personally love to see a Clash at Demonhead run. However I really don't have the skill or patience to do it myself. But having recently played through it I have come up with a few things to give someone who attempts it a headstart. First of all an image of the map, with all the routes labeled and a key of all the significant people/items/bosses that are on certain routes: http://www.rpgclassics.com/~onlinelife/images/DemonheadMap.png Your main goal in the game is to get the Six Medallions, Four of them can be gotten from bosses without any story pre-text. Just find their fortresses and beat them. Those Bosses are Gahz on Route 11, Max on Route 7, Mush on Route 16, and Shark on Route 28. To get the Fifth Medallion you have to handle a bit of a sidequest. When you reach Route 3 you first meet Michael, then on Route 17 you meet the Fairy Faysha who opens the way to the Hermit on Route 35, from the Waterfall on Route 6. Defeat Rowdy to save the Hermit. Later you meet Michael again on Route 15 and he tells you to get the Magic Stone on Route 27, you see him again on that route. When you get the Stone and return to Route 15, enter the second well and Michael will be down there. Placing the stone in the door opens the way to the first boss fight with the Demon. You HAVE to lose this battle, it may not look good for a Time Attack to get a Game Over but it has to be done. From there re-enter Route 15 then take the Shortcut to the desert Route 33 and Enter Guycot's Fortress, and meet Faysha again who tells you to go to the Hermit. Return to Route 35 and the Hermit will tell you to get the Sword of Apollo on Route 40. Once you have that, go to Route 39 and use the sword during the second fight with the Demon to get the Fifth Medallion. One hell of a run-around for a Medallion eh? And for the sixth and final Medallion, first you must face Bopper on Route 21. After defeating him once he flees and you have to face him again on Route 42. Once all that is done the way to the final battle is open. Saying all that now, there are a few things to consider. Pandar is an optional boss, not needed to beat the game, and thus should be skipped. This saves you the trouble of going down Route 31. I don't know the game well enough to say whether or not you must talk with Joe. I've never finsihed it without talking to him. If you cna skip that, it'll save you the trouble of going to the end of Route 32 and backtracking. In fact if you don't fight Pandar or meet Joe you can skip going in that entire area of the map. You start the game with a Shop Call, so you don't actually need to go to Route 5, just make sure you have enough cash to buy another Shop Call whenever you use the first one. But going to Route 5 may be worth it for the regenerating Gold. It takes awhile to get to it, but if you spend just enough time getting gold bars you could make a fortune on Route 22. It's worth noting that Bang moves much faster using the Jet Pack and the Boots. However you can only carry three of them at once, and they each cost quite a bit. So building up enough money is advantageous, but it may be possible to manipulate luck to get the enemies to drop what you need. If you do that then you can skip Route 5 entirely. You only ever need to use the Hermit's Force Power once, to escape from Route 35 you need to use the First one. This saves some time on manipulating the menus, however the second Force Power, Teleportation would be invaluable in a Time attack. You need to get Bang's Force Level up to 200 to learn it, and it costs 60 Force Points to use. But you can warp to any Route (or rather, any Map 'Node' that the routes are connected to) you've been to. Considering that some of the objectives are so far apart, even an efficient route plan could be shortened considerably with Teleportation. One of the bosses, Shark, is fought underwater. When underwater Bang's health slowly goes down unless he has an Aqualung equipped. If you're fast enough you should be able to beat Shark without it. The other places in the game where you need an Aqualung are also fairly short, and far apart, thus if you have Bang's health up to full when he dives under and avoid the enemies underwater (in a Timeattack that shouldn't be an issue) then you may not need to buy one at all. You do, however, need at least one SuperSuit. To get the Magic Stone you must dive under the lava in Route 27. It is the only place in the game you need a Super Suit, so remove it as soon as you're finished lava-swimming. You walk much slower wearing one of those. When you come back from the Hermit on Rotue 35 you emerge on Route 8. If you have a JetPack or Boots you can take the 'upper' exit from Route 8 to get to Route 7. If you do the first part of the Hermit quest right away at the start you could then face Max on your way back. Overall, I think the best Route to take is: 1 (you start here, don't take too long facing Guycot), 3 (meet Michael then turn around and leave), 2, 11 (beat Gahz), 9, 12, 17 (meet Faysha and turn around and leave), 14, 6 (entering Route 6 from 14 pretty much puts you on top of the shortcut to the Hermit's Den), 35 (beat Rowdy, meet Hermit, get Force), 8, 7 (beat Max), 8, 4, 1, 3, 12, 20, 15 (meet Michael), 18, 16 (beat Mush), 27 (get Magic Stone, turn around and leave) 16, 19, 28 (beat Shark, turn around and leave), 19, 18, 15 (open door, fight Demon, die), 15 (re-enter and take shortcut to desert), 33 (meet dying Guycot, meet Faysha, then take shortcut back to 15), 20, 14, 6 (shortcut to Hermit's Den), 35 (talk to Hermit about Demon), 8, 4, 1, 3, 12, 20, 18, 16, 27, 37, 40 (get Sword of Apollo, turn around and leave), 37, 27, 16, 18, 15 (take Desert Shortcut to 33), 39 (beat Demon and emerge on Route 38), 30, 21 (fight Bopper), 42 (fight Bopper the second time) 43 (finish game) Now that's quite a lot, and notice it's a warpless run. Yeah it's all from one point to the other, but I believe it's the 'best' route to take. However if you use Teleportation to warp around you can shorten it significantly. While it's all going to depend on how much Force you build up (and how fast you can do it), I believe the best places to warp are after you get the Magic Stone warp back to route 15 (take the other exit, not the way you came in Rotue 27!), after you meet Guycot and Faysha on Route 33 you warp right to Route 6 to get to Route 35 (you can't warp straight there, unfortunately), and from there Warp right to Route 37 then on to 40 (If you're going to do that, the when you're in Route 27 getting the Stone, don't turn around and leave. Instead keep going and take the other exit so you can 'activate' that node for Teleportation, as I mentioned before.) Then either Warp back to Route 15, or to Route 33 (you'll have to make sure to enter Route 39 if you're going to do that, as if you just warp out of Route 33 the first time around you can't warp back unless one of the 'nodes' are activated). So that means to make the best use of Teleportation you should use it those four times to shave off quite a lot of time. That means you have to have at least 240 Force Points, 200 to get Teleportation and 60 each time you use it. You need to buy at least one Super Suit for the Lava, and that's all you HAVE to buy in the game. But as I said before, the Boots and Jet Pack make Bang move much much faster and it would be wise to make use of that. But I cant' really predict what routes those items would be best used on. And keep in mind that a bit of time is wasted summoning the Shop and buying everything (the slow text speed and chatty shopkeeper don't help matters) I hope all this info will help someone time-attack this awesome game. For more detailed info on specific parts of the game check out the walkthroughs for it at GameFAQs. (EDIT: Oh, one big thing I forgot to mention. I didn't overlook Route 13, the reason why I never included that in my Route-plan is because it's essentially one-way. You can only go from the North exit to the South exit in that route, so unfortunately you can't quickly get to Shark right after beating Max) (EDIT EDIT: I fixed the link to the image, I can't believe I misspelled head.)
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Alright, I've done some testing and I have some more info. I've discovered that you can finish the game without meeting Joe on Route 32, thus saving time going down that area of the map. You can't, however, get the Magic Stone without talking to Michael on Route 3 and 15, meaning you have to spend some time entering those routes and making it up to him. Making use of Teleport, the optimal route (in my opinion thus far) is: 1 (you start here, don't take too long facing Guycot), 3 (meet Michael then turn around and leave), 2, 11 (beat Gahz), 9, 12, 17 (meet Faysha and turn around and leave), 14, 6 (entering Route 6 from 14 pretty much puts you on top of the shortcut to the Hermit's Den), 35 (beat Rowdy, meet Hermit, get Force), 8, 7 (beat Max) (teleport to theNode between route 12 and 20) 20, 15 (meet Michael and exit the route), 18, 16 (beat Mush), 27 (get Magic Stone, leave the level from the second exit, not where you entered) Here either warp to the Node between Route 16 and 27, or backtrack through 27. If you have the Force to spare then warp, 19, 28 (beat Shark, then warp to the Node on Route 15), 15 (open door, fight Demon, die), 15 (re-enter and take shortcut to desert), 33 (meet dying Guycot, meet Faysha, exit the level from the exit next to Faysha then warp to the node between Route 14 and 6), 6 (shortcut to Hermit's Den), 35 (talk to Hermit about Demon, then warp to the Node between route 27 and 37), 37, 40 (get Sword of Apollo, then warp back to the node between Route 33 and 39), 39 (beat Demon and emerge on Route 38), 42, 21 (fight Bopper), 42 (fight Bopper the second time) 43 (finish game) Now a few more notes. Following that Route there are three instances where you need to dive underwater. If you want to use the Aqualung each of those times you'll need 2 of them, as you'll use up one shortly after the second dive. It may be better just to buy one then make Bang hold his breath for the remainder of the third dive. As I said in the previous post you could go without buying one entirely if you're fast enough swimming through the tunnels, and fighting Shark. You cannot, however, avoid buying at least one Super Suit. I made a change to this route compared to the one in the previous post. When you defeat the Demon and emerge on Route 38, I have this new route go up route 42 first then fight Bopper from the other side. I do this because the time spent going through Route 38 and 21 seems to be take longer than the time spent going through Route 42 and entering 21 from the north end, which plants you right on top of Bopper's room. They may be near equal in length, that's just my hypothesis. Luckily this is at the very end of the game, and retesting and re-recording it at that point would be less of a hassle then finding out something from the start, eh? On Route 42, coming up from the Route 21 exit there is this monster on the cliff which you must kill to pass. You can pass it without killing it while going down the mountain, but climing up it has to die. It's a pain to kill and it keeps sending Bang down the side of the mountain whenever he jumps. Eventually it'll die and you'll move on. Since you have to fight Bopper to enter Route 43, the time spent killing this monster is much shorter than trying to go back through Route 21, 30, and entering 42 from the other exit. You need to buy at least one Jet Pack (or use the Hermit's Levitation Force Skill) to reach the entrance to Route 43 and the second battle with Bopper. The Jet Pack flies faster than Levitation, and if you make a habit of buying a lot of items in your run, it's just as well to have one for there. So to recap, the one item you NEED to buy is a Super Suit, it's to your advantage to buy Boots, Jet Packs, and Aqualungs if you manipulate the enemies enough to get the cash you need. Aqualungs could potentially be skipped if you get through the underwater sections fast enough. You HAVE to die once in the game while fighting the Demon, there's no bugs past this that I'm aware of. In the route I gave above, you warp 4-5 times. That means you need at least 300 Force Points to use that, plus the one time you need to use Micro Power which costs 50. Thus you need to build up 350 Force Points (perhaps only 290 if you pass up the quick warp from the end of Route 27 to 16). Enemies can be manipulated to dropping Force Apples which give you 10 Froce points, and DynaPunch can be purchased from the Shop for $1000 which restores 15. But you can only carry 3 of those at a time, so it may be better to get your force points from enemies. It shouldn't be too difficult to build up what you need to teleport.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Just one more thing (three posts in a row in this topic eh? Heh) while I don't intend on doing a time attack myself, I really don't have the skill for it, I did record a brief movie up to defeating Gahz for people to view, just to get an idea on what to expect: Up to Gahz in about 3 minutes It follows the route I listed in my previous post. And it's an FCU file, as Famtasia seems to crash and burn horribly whenever you got to the menu screen or the map screen within a level. I know that isn't optimal playing, a few seconds could probably be shaved off, but it's close to the mark for someone who wants to do a time attack to get a good idea of what to do (and not to do).
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I've meant to watch and reply to your efforts for awhile, but have been very busy. Heh, when I pictured the beginning of this run, for some reason I imagined you having to wait for Tom Guycott. It's pretty humorous to see you just duck and keep running. In the second level, I think you might be able to avoid taking damage, and avoid hitting the wall at the end by jumping at more optimal times. Could you manipulate luck to pretty much always get money? When scaling a wall, can you jump up it to ascend faster? I think you could attack Gahz sooner each time he lands. I like it so far, if none of the above is possible. Keep it up. For those new to the game, the amount of hopping along long lengths of water is not very representational to the rest of the game.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
I originally wasn't intending on doing the speedrun myself, but since no one else seems to be interested, and I know the route well myself, perhaps I will give it an actual shot myself. I've done some experimenting with enemy drops, and noticed something. They don't appear to be random, and thus can't be affected by me. I have, though, noticed a pattern. I've resetted the game several times and got the same results. From the start of the game the 5th enemy I kill drops some cash, the 7th drops cash, the 9th drops an apple, the 13th drops cash, the 25th drops cash, the 30th drops a heart, the 40th drops cash, the 45th drops cash, the 51st drops an apple, the 59th drops cash, the 68th drops cash, the 73rd drops a heart. It seems to go Cash Cash Apple Cash Cash Heart, and restarts. However there doesn't seem to be any immediate pattern to the drops yet. If it uses Hex code to determin enemy drops based on how many have been killed so far, it will probably go up to 255 before the pattern repeats. I would have to experiment a bit more and kill 255 enemies to see if the drop pattern does repeat itself. On another note, each bit of cash you pick up gives you 950 gold. Also, enemies re-appear rather quickly, just scroll their 'spawning' point off the screen once killing them and they'll re-appear immediately. Finding a spot somewhere in the game where there are numerous enemies that can be easily re-spawned would be the best place to build up cash and Force points, since their drops can't be manipulate it seems. Anyone have any suggestions on that? Given the time it takes to summon the shop and buy what you need, I was thinking it might only be worth it to visit the shop once in the game, buy the one Supersuit I need, and spend the rest of my cash on Boots, Jet packs, and perhaps a Thundershot or two (I'll have to do some experimenting to see if weapons like the Thundershot actually do more damage, or just make it easier to hit enemies)
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Ok, I've decided to give this another shot and restart the movie from scratch. The first one was only a trial anyway. This new movie goes up to the same point as the last one, except it's now 20 seconds faster. Most of that improvement comes from the battle with Gahz, with a few other small improvements in Route 11. Anyway... This is the original trial...3:27 And this is the new attempt...3:06 I still haven't decided what I'm going to do yet about money and force points. Since I've determined that the enemies drop items at a set pattern and cannot be manipulated, finding a place to build up cash and force is going to be trickey. I've been thinking about doing a run that uses NO warping, and doesn't rely on Running Boots or Jet Packs for extra speed, save where they can be used for a shortcut. But I'll wait and see, if I can find a good spot somewhere on my planned route where I can take down enemies rather quickly and effeciently I may do that. I've estimated to buy what I NEED will take about 50 drops of cash from enemies, and to get enough force points I would need about 30 drops of apples. However fast I can aquire that much will depend on how fast I can fight enemies in a certain area. Since enemies reappear once their spawning point is just put offscreen, I just need to find a place where I can set up a good 'rhythm'. On my original planned route I needed either Boots or a Jetpack to get to Route 7 from Route 8 quickly, so it would probably have to be before then. I also determined that different weapons, like the Thundershot, don't appear to do any extra damage to bosses or enemies, so I won't waste money and time on them. Anyway, any comments or suggestions are welcome.
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Hmm, interesting. For sure, you should definitely not just skip out on using jet pack and boots to speed things up. However money will be a problem, you'll probably end up doing a stock-up loop somewhere. By the way, is it necessary to talk to Michael there? I guess the fairy won't be there? If you get more cash than apples, which seems to be the case, you can buy the dynapunch or whatever it's called that ups your psych power. Would it be possible to spread out your shopping into 2 visits, for the second one you would have more time to earn money and you could also get 3 psych powerups each trip. Well good luck with this one, you're gonna need it! Also, the prices at the store vary. Have you looked into this? By manipulating this you could reduce the amount of cash you need, particularly if you take 2 trips and get the cheaper items in each. Unless you can manipulate everything to be cheap which doesn't sound probable.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Ok, I got an update to the run. It now goes up to after rescuing the Hermit, and stopping right before I have to use Micro Magic to fit through the exit tunnel. Seemed like as good a place as any to stop. To the Hermit... 7:37 And a few more notes... Yes I have to enter Route 3 to talk to Michael, his appearances are ordered, and necessary to view. If I don't talk to him in Route 3, he won't appear in Route 15, and if I don't talk to him there he doesn't appear on Route 27, and if I don't talk to him on Route 27 the Magic Stone won't be under the Lava until I do. It's a pain, but it needs to be done. I've actually found that Money isn't as big a problem as I had once thought. By the time I rescued the Hermit I already had almost $50000, at the rate I defeat enemies I should, presumably, be able to keep getting enough to continue buying what I need. There are a few problems, though. For starters, the first time you summon the Shop, he won't have everything in stock, the prices don't vary, actually, what varies is what is available at the time. I believe the items he has in stock are set by a pattern, by the fourth summon he'll finally have in Jet Packs, for instance. So I plan to summon the shop at the same time I use Micro Power right after meeting the Hermit, do all that menu-ing at once. At that point I'll buy three Shop Calls, and Three Boots. Super Suits, Jetpacks, or Dyna Punches won't be in stock in the first summon. I'm debating whether or not to buy Dyna Punches, actually, since they each only give you 17 Force Points, and you can only have 3 at once time. That means I can get about 51 points per shop visit once they're in. Of course I want to limit trips to the Shop as much as possible, since the shopkeeper is so darn chatty. So I'll probably wind up buying them when I can, but I won't make special Shop summons just for them. Money really isn't an issue, anymore, however Force Points are. I probably will not be able to wind up using the Warp ability as much as I'd like, not without staying in one place and fighting a lot of enemies. In some cases it might be easier to just walk. Again, I'll probably use Warp when I can, but I don't think I'll spend extra time building up Force Points just for it.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Ok, I have a new update, this one goes up to meeting Michael on Route 15 and ends after exiting the route. Route 15, First visit... 11:21 Again, a few notes. The items in the Shop do indeed seem to appear in a set pattern, which is why I summon the shop three times after defeating Max. Also, the reason why I seemingly waste time killing those few enemies on the top of Max's fortress is to A) Get some extra cash I needed, and B) Wait for the boots I'm using to run out so I can buy another pair when I summon the shop. It may look like I'm wasting time there, but I needed every bit of cash I pickde up, and I summoned the shop as soon as the boots wore off. You'll notice that the three times I summoned it at that point I was in the air and hit it as soon as it entered the screen each time. The first trip I bought three more Shop Calls and another pair of Boots to make up for what I just used, the second time I bought that one Super suit I needed, and the third time I bought three Jet Packs and three Dyna Punches. I decided to buy them at least there, as using the three of them gave me 210 Force Points, and access to Teleportation, which costs 60 points a pop. Thus I followed my original plan thus far, by warping right to Route 20. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up enough Apples to be able to use Teleportation when I need to. Otherwise calling the shop will be my alternative. The Shopkeeper may be chatty, but it IS quicker than walking back through a lot of the routes. Next up is the battle with Mush, and aquiring the Magic Stone, and the battle with Shark. After that is the 'battle' with the Demon. Though I wonder, would this run be considered 'lost lives to save time'? Because you HAVE to die during the battle with the Demon, the Game Over screen even comes up, but it's not a REAL game over, since it HAS to happen. Continuing takes you right back outside the Demon's Door as well, instead of at the start of the Route like it normally would. So it's not a real life lost... it'll make sense when you see it.... Anyway, at only 11 minutes so far, it's shaping up to be a bit faster than I thought it would. I'll probably get under half an hour if I get to use Teleportation as much as I plan to. EDIT: I fixed the link to the run, I accidentily had it pointing to an older one.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Ok, the good news is I found a shortcut that can really shave some time off my run that I wasn't aware of before. The bad news is I discovered it after it would have been useful. (oy..) So I'm gonna have to re-do the run, after the battle with Mush. That's not TOO bad, at least I don't have to restart it... Anyhoo, here's the new route-plan in case you're interested with the changes italicized... 1 (you start here, don't take too long facing Guycot), 3 (meet Michael then turn around and leave), 2, 11 (beat Gahz), 9, 12, 17 (meet Faysha and turn around and leave), 14, 6 (entering Route 6 from 14 pretty much puts you on top of the shortcut to the Hermit's Den), 35 (beat Rowdy, meet Hermit, get Force), 8, 7 (beat Max) (teleport to theNode between route 12 and 20) 20, 15 (meet Michael and exit the route), 18, 19, 28 (beat Shark, then warp to the Node before Route 16), 16 (beat Mush), 27 (get Magic Stone) 37, 40 (shortcut to the cave in Route 15) 15 (open door, fight Demon, die), 15 (re-enter and take shortcut to desert), 33 (meet dying Guycot, meet Faysha, exit the level from the exit next to Faysha then warp to the node between Route 14 and 6), 6 (shortcut to Hermit's Den), 35 (talk to Hermit about Demon, then warp to the Node between route 40), 40 (get Sword of Apollo, then warp back to the node between Route 33 and 39), 39 (beat Demon and emerge on Route 38), 42, 21 (fight Bopper), 42 (fight Bopper the second time) 43 (finish game) Basically, instead of going for the Magic Stone right after beating Mush, I go after Shark first. Then I warp back to get the stone, and continue onward to Route 40, where there's a shortcut to Route 15. Since I would have normally had to go through Route 37 ANYWAY, this saves time, especially since the shortcut to Route 15 takes me right on top of the Demon's Door, rather than having to trudge through the outside part of Route 15, and most of the cave. I also have to warp one time less on this new route-plan, so that's even better still. Anyhoo, if you were interested in my work up till this point, here's my aborted run up to aquiring the Sword of Apollo (on the old route plan). And if you're wondering why I'm freaking out at the end of the run, that's cause I realized that A) I didn't have enough Force to Warp, and B) I remembered the Shortcut that was there... Sword of Apollo... 19:43 Tomorrow I'll resume work on the revised run. Redoing it from Mush is a pain but... it's better than knowing a quicker way is there. Besides which, I think I can make the Mush battle just a biiiiit faster...
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Lookin sharp. It seems that you have figured out you need to kill as many enemies as possible to get powerups. If you do this from the beginning it should help, but it might be a good idea to finish your current run. Is it the order you kill the enemies that determines drops? In that case you could turn around quickly and hit enemies behind you if they aren't going to drop anything, to get to the good stuff sooner from enemies in front of you. Also, it looks like you should have picked up dynapunch in your last shopping run, that would solve your force problem, at least temporarily. In general it seems like you should buy them every time you can when you shop and use them to build up force. Also, could you have gotten boots and started using items earlier? This would rock, as Bang is so much faster with powerups. Well, there probably aren't too many people watching this run as this is kind of an obscure game, but I'm rooting for you.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 91
*signs on the "own the game and can't wait to see it's speedrun" line* This is definitely high up on my "must see" list. Keep up the good work!
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Finally got a chance to check it out. I like the route and planning that went through it very much. I never made it far in when I played, so I was shocked to see the additional things I didn't know about that you had to plan out. It's a little slow in the beginning(you can't control that) but really picks up after your first shopping spree. As AxeMan asked, could this have occurred earlier? You don't spend all your money during the first shop call. That said, there are a some aesthetic things I feel could be improved. First, in the realm of accuracy. A whole lot of bullets miss, usually during boss fights(and almost always you shoot more than is needed to kill them). Also, even though you're not at a risk of dying, and it doesn't slow you down, I feel like a lot of hits could be avoided without losing time. Especially those dealt to you by enemies you just killed- I think many of them can be attacked earlier, so that you just barely reach the self destruct thing when it ends. Also, there are rare times when you try to jump into a narrow crevice(I think it happened before your first encounter with demon for example), miss the jump, and have to jump a second time to make it. I think these could be fixed. Also regarding jumping, this one I'm not sure about, but because hitting the ceiling slows you, perhaps some of these times you could not jump as high or take a lower route(for example skipping on water rather than walking along the platforms above) I'm greatly looking forward to the final run.
Joined: 7/29/2004
Posts: 136
Location: Temple City, CA
I've not commented on the run yet, because I've not watched it, but I have been watching this thread progress. I will be watching the run that goes to the sword of apollo later today. I own this game, and have only beaten it once, so I know it is hard enough to deserve this speed run.
"How can you prove you exist? Maybe we don't exist..." -Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy IX)
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
It's finished! Final time at movie stop is 23:56!! Start to Finish! 23:56 On a side note, taking that shortcut I mentioned early shaved about a minute off, how about that? Now then, a few final notes... The first battle with Bopper is interesting, like a David vs Goliath sorta deal... You'll notice after the first Bopper battle, I get knocked down the mountain 5 times by a horned monster. That couldn't be helped, since it has to happen 5 times before the monster knocks HIMSELF down and you can continue. I tried shooting the heck out of him, and zipping up past in the Jet Pack, didn't work. You'll also notice I refrain from using the Jet Pack in the final Route, because I needed to save as much of it as possible for the end. That Samurai Guy cannot be beaten without either a Jetpack, or a weapon that can reach the Right Sphere, such as the Thundershot. I didn't have any special weapons so I had to save enough Jet Pack to take it out. Befoer you ask why didn't I buy another one, the last time I summoned the shop I bought what I could, 2 Jetpacks, I COULD have bought another Shop Call at that point, but with the Cash I had at the end of the game, I would have had to spend quite a bit of time building up enough to buy one more Jet Pack. Perhaps if there is enough call for it, I may re-do the Run from the last Shop Call and spend just enough time building cash for one more Jet Pack at the end. Though the time spent building money (not to mention going through the chatty shop keeper again) may negate the time gained from using the Jet Pack... You'll notice that right before I enter the Demon's Door, I pause to pick up an Apple. This isn't because I needed it for Force Points, it's because that for some reason the game won't let you enter the demon's door if there's such an item on the screen. Wacky eh? I could have shot those enemies earlier on and made the item drop off screen, but that would have wasted more time than the moment I spent picking it up after the fact. On the note of jumping into narrow passageways and having to do it twice, that honestly CAN'T be done any better. It's simply a matter of the game's mechanics. Play it for yourself and see, but there is honestly no way around it. All those times I jumped twice to fit into a passageway, I had to. Could I have shopped earlier? Perhaps... I could have summoned the shop earlier and bought three pairs of boots, and summoned it more occasionally to stock up along the way. But the fact is, by the end of the game I hardly had any money left, and had I summoned the shop earlier I would have had less and less money and would have fell short at the end, and spent that length of time going slower. Which would have been bad because as I stated above, I needed the Jet Pack for That Samurai Guy. Shot a bit more often than I needed to? Sure did. That's because this is my first real attempt at a Time Attack, and I was still just getting used to playing it like that. If I were to replay it all from scratch I could likely do a much better job, however that won't be any time soon I'm afraid. I have my finals to worry about now, and next Semester I'm doing my Honors Dissertation, and probably won't have time to really do it like I did this time for a few months. Though I probably would do a revised run.. eventually. As it stands now, though, unless there's something I can fix near the end of the game, this run is complete. That's really all I have to say at the moment, any questions, fire em my way. I plan on submitting this run with the 'Uses Warps' category, since Bang's teleport ability is essentially a Warp. I won't, however, submit it under 'Loses Lives to Save Time' since that one life I 'lost' against the Demon was mandatory, and as I've said before, not a REAL life lost. Aaaaand, that's about it, I think. I'll check back tomorrow morning and see how the comments are, and I'll probably submit it then!
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
(It also falls under takes damage to save time)