Loving the instant backwalk. Your angles are amazingly good.
However, as much as I hate to say it, it might be better to do a second round of rupee gathering in the field. I didn't realize how quick getting 99 rupees would be. Getting those rupees now (and hence the Adult Wallet) would save a trip to ECT on the next cycle and a conversation with the banker. Considering that it was about 22:10 when you talked to the banker and rupee gathering took you about 2:05, I think getting those extra rupees would be worth it even though you won't get to the Clock Tower exactly on time.
On another note, we'll probably be wanting to use something similar to this when we get to the palace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6_Tbr9W2PM
Both hovers can be done without chus without wasting much, if any, time.
It really depends on how late he gets to the tower. If that time is less than the time it takes to get 99 in the chest on the roof, then it makes sense that going out again would actually be beneficial.
Correct. It seems to me that he'd get to the Tower at about 12:35 if he went to the field again. Since time flows 5/3 faster on the first cycle, this is about 16 seconds. A trip to ECT costs ~35s, so we should be good.
EDIT: Almost forgot, we add 4 scene transistions. Each scene transistion is about 3.5-4 seconds as well. So that's 32s total...hmm...I think it still comes out ahead. The main way to check would be to do it both ways, and see how they compare when Link reaches the bank.
Also, I sort of forgot that it doesn't actually save a bank visit.
Hi, this is my first post but I'm a long time fan.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you only have two rupes to go to get the adault wallet, right? If you don't want to do a second walk through termia field couldn't you just get those two from the moving bushing in north clocktown (or the two boxes in west clocktown)? It took me, without any tool assistance, a total of 35 minutes to get from the bank to there and back to the bank. So that would be well in your remaining time and having the adault wallett at this point could save some time later on.
Edit: Or maybe just collect two before you even come to termia. On the way there there are many bushes with rupes. Then you could bring them to the bank after you spoke with the scarecrow. You would probably loose a few frames, but if you do a second run through termia field on the evening of the first day you could collect up to 200 rupes, as you would gain the adault wallet after the first run.
Just throwing these out there, please don't hit me. ^^"
Gorgeous encode, like always.
Does your graphics card have fog for Direct64? Because in cards which have that (like mine), Jabo 1.6 is perfect, but in cards which don't (like on my laptop), it's missing some things, like shadows. Your encode seemed to have those, so I was wondering what card you had, since I remember some of your previous OoT encodes having no fog, and you captured those with Direct64.
Gorgeous encode, like always.
Does your graphics card have fog for Direct64? Because in cards which have that (like mine), Jabo 1.6 is perfect, but in cards which don't (like on my laptop), it's missing some things, like shadows. Your encode seemed to have those, so I was wondering what card you had, since I remember some of your previous OoT encodes having no fog, and you captured those with Direct64.
My graphics card (nvidia 7800 GTX Go) does NOT support fog in the n64 zelda games using the latest direct64.
I captured using Jabo 1.6 (with the really slow rdram option on... not sure if it actually improves Majora's Mask, but it never hurts anything except capture speed) at 1280x960. ...But if I had captured using the latest direct64, my encode would be without fog.
Also, is it just me, or is the stereo on that video reversed?
oh hey you are absolutely right. So are all my videos and probably most n64 encodes by anyone made using mupen (on windows at least). The sound channels are reversed in the capture file! I'll remember that for next time... since I use avisynth anyway, I'll use it to reverse the left and right channels from now on.
Temporary solution: Wear your headphones/earbuds the wrong way on purpose. :P
So here's how I'm thinking we'll be doing that Palace thing in the TAS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wll7FSmQzok
It needs a bit more optimization than shown here, but you should get the idea.
Correct. It seems to me that he'd get to the Tower at about 12:35 if he went to the field again. Since time flows 5/3 faster on the first cycle, this is about 16 seconds. A trip to ECT costs ~35s, so we should be good.
EDIT: Almost forgot, we add 4 scene transistions. Each scene transistion is about 3.5-4 seconds as well. So that's 32s total...hmm...I think it still comes out ahead. The main way to check would be to do it both ways, and see how they compare when Link reaches the bank.
Also, I sort of forgot that it doesn't actually save a bank visit.
That actually gives me an idea, the cutscene at mid-night lasts for 35 seconds. Does it start if you are anywhere in CT bar CCT? If it starts initiates regardless of where you are in CT then you could go into Termina and come back into CT the moment the count down starts.
That would probably make getting more rupees during the first cycle worthwhile.
However, as much as I hate to say it, it might be better to do a second round of rupee gathering in the field. I didn't realize how quick getting 99 rupees would be. Getting those rupees now (and hence the Adult Wallet) would save a trip to ECT on the next cycle and a conversation with the banker. Considering that it was about 22:10 when you talked to the banker and rupee gathering took you about 2:05, I think getting those extra rupees would be worth it even though you won't get to the Clock Tower exactly on time.
It depends whether it ends up being the fastest way to get an extra 99 (or 100) rupees. I don't know how many rupees this run will require or where other rupees will be collected, but it may be the case that it is better to wait to get more rupees later because it will be faster to do so.
AKA wrote:
That actually gives me an idea, the cutscene at mid-night lasts for 35 seconds. Does it start if you are anywhere in CT bar CCT? If it starts initiates regardless of where you are in CT then you could go into Termina and come back into CT the moment the count down starts.
The midnight cutscene only happens in South Clock Town or Termina Field. So the fastest way to skip the cutscene is to be transitioning to South Clock Town at midnight. Another way is inside the Clock Tower where the mask salesman is, though time stops in there so I don't know if that would work.
It depends whether it ends up being the fastest way to get an extra 99 (or 100) rupees. I don't know how many rupees this run will require or where other rupees will be collected, but it may be the case that it is better to wait to get more rupees later because it will be faster to do so.
We need 240 rupees before leaving CT on the 2nd cycle. The only thing that can compete is the ECT chest, which I think will be slower.
dunnius wrote:
The midnight cutscene only happens in South Clock Town or Termina Field. So the fastest way to skip the cutscene is to be transitioning to South Clock Town at midnight. Another way is inside the Clock Tower where the mask salesman is, though time stops in there so I don't know if that would work.
Actually, during a normal cycle, the midnight cutscene only plays in SCT. However, during the first cycle, the midnight cutscene plays no matter where you are. A different one plays if you're in Termina Field, but even if you're (somehow) in STT, the scene still plays.
Like Bloob commented on the youtube video, the room at 7:30 was awesome.
petrie911 wrote:
Awesome; can't wait to see it. Also, love that you're using Jabo's 1.6. Hopefully I can get it to sync on my computer with it.
I never found your Youtube encodes to be too bad; if you watch in high-quality it actually looks pretty good. Unless, of course, you're doing what I sometimes do and have h264 or xvid capture at maximum bitrate and then upload it directly to YouTube. Even at 10000kbps, a 10:00 video is still less than YouTube's 1GB limit. OK for YouTube, less good for distributing the actual file.
After doing quite a bit of testing, I found that the video has to be at least 640*480/464 (for 4:3 videos) @ 1500-2000kbps with x264 to get hq on youtube. They also look much better if you capture at a higher resolution and downscale to 640*480 with lanczos (or 640*464 if you crop the black bars off)
I encoded this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRzsZdcSDCQ with these settings, and IMO is one of the best looking videos on YT when watched in HQ (though it does lag slightly in BitS)
This is the best quality I've seen on YouTube. However, DeHackEd himself uploaded what I assume is the same file to his channel (here), and the quality is a lot worse, so YouTube is really random.
For OoT/MM, I suggest compressing to xvid using 24 fps - the lower the framerate, the sharper the video will be, but YouTube needs at least 24 fps to prepare a HQ version, I've heard. It should give better results than uploading the raw 60 fps file and have it converted to 29.97 by YouTube.
24fps makes for a rather poor display of 20fps game, 30fps game-menu, and 60fps main-menu. The key is leaving it at 60fps (or making it 30fps before you give it to youtube) and make the video 960x720 with black on the sides so the file is 1280x720. Then the youtube video with &fmt=22 at the end of the URL will look perfect.
Johannes wrote:
xvid
Come on man, nothing xvid does is better than x264. And since youtube will be reencoding your file anyway, you might as well give it something that looks good but isn't huge. For example the video can be encoded 1-pass with qp=15
If this discussion really needs to go further this probably isn't the right thread...
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
bkDJ wrote:
Then the youtube video with &fmt=22 at the end of the URL will look perfect.
What you're talking about is actually 'HD' as opposed to 'High Quality'. This recently became officially available. Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p27cLysfqYc
Note the 'Watch in HD' under the video. Yes, another way to get this is to use the URL hack &fmt=22, but if a HD version is not available it will fall back to the normal quality version rather than the high quality version, so you're probably better off just looking for the 'Watch in HD' button.
The midnight cutscene only happens in South Clock Town or Termina Field. So the fastest way to skip the cutscene is to be transitioning to South Clock Town at midnight. Another way is inside the Clock Tower where the mask salesman is, though time stops in there so I don't know if that would work.
Actually, during a normal cycle, the midnight cutscene only plays in SCT. However, during the first cycle, the midnight cutscene plays no matter where you are. A different one plays if you're in Termina Field, but even if you're (somehow) in STT, the scene still plays.
Sorry, my mistake. I didn't want to start a new game on the console version because there are only two save slots. Well, I erased one of the games so I could do some testing. The cutscene also happens inside of buildings, which I did not know. Now I wonder if it is possible to skip the cutscene by doing a screen transition just before midnight. If time flows a little during the transition and can't be interrupted by midnight, then it could be possible. I wish I could get Mupen to work on my computer.
I'm pretty sure time pauses before the fadeout and resumes after the fade-in exactly to avoid that kind of stuff. I'm thinking specifically of the night-of-the-third-day quick cutscene when the currently published TAS reaches stone tower. But good luck! :/
Ver Greeneyes wrote:
What you're talking about is actually 'HD' as opposed to 'High Quality'. This recently became officially available. Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p27cLysfqYc
Note the 'Watch in HD' under the video. Yes, another way to get this is to use the URL hack &fmt=22, but if a HD version is not available it will fall back to the normal quality version rather than the high quality version, so you're probably better off just looking for the 'Watch in HD' button.
My point was that if anyone so chooses, they can upload a 1280x720 video and &fmt=22 WILL make it look fantastic.
Just have a look here. That fine-print text is only readable in HD in a window larger than the site offers by default (so full-screen works). Hell, that little excerpt looks better than the encoded file I posted earlier. (DISCLAIMER: nope, I won't upload future encodes of this game to youtube, because my account is limited to 10-minutes and my upload speed is too slow for the larger files it would require. I'm just proving that anyone with a little time can easily achieve great results and not hope for youtube to "random"ly make their video look ok)
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
bkDJ wrote:
My point was that if anyone so chooses, they can upload a 1280x720 video and &fmt=22 WILL make it look fantastic.
Just have a look here. That fine-print text is only readable in HD in a window larger than the site offers by default (so full-screen works). Hell, that little excerpt looks better than the encoded file I posted earlier. (DISCLAIMER: nope, I won't upload future encodes of this game to youtube, because my account is limited to 10-minutes and my upload speed is too slow for the larger files it would require. I'm just proving that anyone with a little time can easily achieve great results and not hope for youtube to "random"ly make their video look ok)
Yeah, I just thought it could use some qualification as Watch in HD was only added like a week ago. The &fmt=22 url-hack was discovered a while ago.
Actually, during a normal cycle, the midnight cutscene only plays in SCT. However, during the first cycle, the midnight cutscene plays no matter where you are. A different one plays if you're in Termina Field, but even if you're (somehow) in STT, the scene still plays.
I guess they built it in there for when you are outside of the observatory. It would be interesting to see if one of the cutscenes is longer than the other. I suspect the one in Termia Field is longer, since it shows more stuff... (Could have impact on a second rupe-run)
Btw. after reading a few pages back again I see now, that you are probably going to sell the Gold dust, which gives you plenty of money later on, so the suggestion I made above would only cost time.
But it's really hard to keep up with what you guys have planed and thus seeing possible improvements (I'm pretty sure you have the best route possible, but the more eyes look at it the more probable it is that potential improvements are spotted). Do you have some kind of a list or Wikipage of what you are planing to do online?
Edit:
Like I thought. The cutscene in Termia Field is longer.
Clock Town Cutscene: about 31 seconds
Termia Field Cutscene about 46 seconds
So you have to be back in Clock Town by 12 or you will loose an additional 15 seconds...
At the moment it looks like you won't make it, but it's really really close, so if you can optimise a little bit somewhere it should be doable... (you take 1:55 [hours game time] to get from the banker through termia field and back in town. But after the last transaction with him you only got 1:50 left untill midnight. So you have to find a way to squeeze 5 minutes out of somewhere or you'll loose those 15 seconds... )
Though if you can't make those 5 minutes improvement: You only really need to make 42 rupes at the second run through termia field, right? You could make those and reenter clock town through the north entrance. That would add 2 transition times, but the way is shorter, so you can make up for it and you are definitely back in town for the cut scene.
Also probably nobody will read this anyway :D , may I propose an alternate route?
- do the first cycle as normal (2x grandmother, 1x scarecrow, 99 rupees from chest, 198 rupees from two runs through termia field)
- activate owl, get money from the bank and buy chus and a bomb bag
- Wrong-warp-glitch yourself to the Deku palace ("Unknown" should work best) from Dodongo's cavern (with a bomb slide you should be there really quick from the west gate)
- Do the puzzle, get the song
- Go to woodfall temple, on the way pick up the warp-song, activate owl
- do woodfall #1
- use the warpsong to warp to Clock town
( - if needed get 100 rupees from ECT chest, if not don't :D )
- fill up on chus and bombs in WCT
- Wrong-warp-glitch to lens of truth cave from Generic Pit
- Get Lens of truth, get Groron Mask, go to Snowpeak temple and beat it (get fire arrow)
- Do the Goron race
- Warp-song to woodfall temple and do woodfall#2
- Now you'll be at the back of the temple and the water will be clean, so you can Groron roll to the witches without a problem
- Do the witches and do the rest of the speedrun as before.
Ofcourse things can be shifted around. The new fixed things would be:
- Warp-glitch to Deku Palace and make your way to and through woodfall #1, first thing in the second cycle.
- After doing wootfall #2 immediatly roll to the witches.
It would save some walking, the cutscene skip at the swamp entrance and a timetravel - you wouldn't need a third cycle.
Btw. are you going to sell the gold dust or are you going to forge the gilded sword? That is imo a major factor in this equasion.
If you were to sell the gold dust you would have more than enough money to do this.
Up untill the point I posted this route costs 210- 240 rupees. This should be covered by the Inn chest and 2x termia field from the first cycle.
So if you sell the gold dust after this, you are all set.
I think overall this way should be a little faster...
Edit:
Ok my logic is flawed. :D
Before you do snowpeak you need the hookshot and when you get the hookshot you also need a bottle to take the egg in that room with you.
If you would glitch-warp to the Deku Palace you would miss this bottle and you couldn't fix it easily as you can't even get through the poisoned swamp, as the exits are blocked by those big sptting things.
So pretty much ignore this post. ^^"
The only way to fix it would be to replace the Romani-bottle with the beaver-bottle. Would this take much longer? I mean you have to stay half a night at the romani ranch...
Edit2:
I just saw that you would need the hookshot to get to the beevers and if I remeber correctly they are way to high to bomb-hover up to them.
So ok, unless someone can figure out a way to get a bottle before getting the hookshot, this route won't work. :(
The only way I could think of is: get back to the palace, take the way you took toget to the temple, get on the roof of the skulltulla house and sidehop or roll over that spitting thing.
But the time it would tak you to do this is far ore than anything you could hope to gain. :(
The Dodongo cavern is not open on the top. Bay Gossips are probably your best bet.
I suppose it's only 10 extra chus, since we won't be using the skull kid cutscene. Leaves no chus for Woodfall 1. The Inn chest + 2 99r field trips would be sufficient for rupees. You don't save a huge amount of time goron rolling, as Woodfall is further from the witches hut than the entrance to the swamp. On the other hand, you don't have to roll back to the tourist shop. Hmm...it's really hard to say...but I don't think it will end up being advantageous.
The major problem that I overlooked is that the witches bottle is needed far earlier than I thought initially. So it won't work.
Maybe at some point somebody can make somethign of it. It yould certainly be nice to have in a run.
Why did nintendo have to put those spit-things in the direction of the Deku palace? It doesn't make any sense in a normal game run.
Sorry that I compiled a long post of rubbish, but when I was writing it I was sure it would work.
Oh well. I hope at least my timing the length of the cutscenes was of some help...
