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Posted: 5/28/2005 8:41 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
The link of the encoded AVI for Solomon's Key 2 is long dead, by the way. Still too bad that it never got accepted, especially since there isn't really any other site it could go to.
Posted: 8/28/2006 8:57 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I am reviving this topic because I'm thinking about attempting a run of this game. Fire N' Ice is a puzzle game, where you put out fires by moving iceblocks over them. There are 101 levels in the game, so the run will be quite long, probably around an hour long. Ragowit attempted a run of this game some time ago, which you can find here. As you can see, it was rejected because Bisqwit didn't find it entertaining, and not suited for this site. Anyway, you might want to check it out if you're interested in this game. :) I have made a WIP, playing through world 1, that is the 10 first levels. Here is the WIP so far. Made with version 0.98.16, and with the U version of the game. Basically, I have three questions about the run so far: 1. Did you find the run entertaining? The levels will be more challenging up ahead, so it will probably get a little more entertaining later on. 2. Did it look techniqally good? In other words, did you find any flaws in the movie itself? 3. Do you think that this run is material for this site? With FCEU, a run of this game will be more precise, and easier to compare strategies with, than with Famtasia. Still, this run won't be that much different from Ragowit's. I think this game has some TAS-potential, similiar to the Lolo games, but maybe that's just what I think. If the run doesn't get any good feedback, I'll cancel it, although I hope it does get good feedback, because it's a fun game to TAS. :)
My own page on this site.
Posted: 8/28/2006 1:09 PM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Sorry but I really can't imagine myself watching a TAS of that for more than 15 minutes tops. An hour is out of the question. I vote no on TASing this, sorry :/
Posted: 9/4/2006 3:58 AM
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Myria
Joined: 8/28/2006
Posts: 50
Heh, I was thinking about this game recently. The problem with Solomon's Key 2 is that the game basically does not move until you move. There is no randomness whatsoever, or monster AI that reacts to you. A speed run of it would be quite boring I think. It also would be trivial to optimize - there are likely very few tricks you could do to make the game go faster. Think Lolo without a chance to do tricks with timing. A puzzle game that would be cute to do is Tower of Babel. The PSX version of it is SO much better than the Famicom version but you can't do speed runs for something that can use moving parts for randomness. >_< Melissa
Posted: 9/4/2006 4:05 AM
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Myria
Joined: 8/28/2006
Posts: 50
I just remembered that I made the .nsf of Solomon's Key 2. It was the only .nsf I ever made. I found it to be really easy to make - the music code was in its own MMC3 banks and was easily separated from the engine. I guess I was lucky. Melissa
Posted: 11/17/2008 10:30 AM
Post subject: Fire n Ice
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djchilxxn
Joined: 11/9/2008
Posts: 108
Location: New Orleans, LA U.S.A.
A super difficult puzzle game. Anybody workin on this? love to watch a speedrun -jon
__--N0ISE
Posted: 11/17/2008 12:49 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
There is an old thread about this game here. Ragowit has submitted a run of this game, and I made a testrun of the first levels, but it's not a very good game choise because the run would be about an hour long and the game itself is pretty straightforward, most levels have exactly one solution, so there's not much room for you to do unexpected things.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 11/17/2008 10:46 PM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Isn't this a sequel to Solomon's Key?
Posted: 11/18/2008 1:37 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Kitsune wrote:
Isn't this a sequel to Solomon's Key?
Yeah, it is, the graphics are very similar too.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:05 PM
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arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
I liked the movie, but maybe I'm just predisposed toward puzzle games.
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Posted: 11/23/2008 8:29 PM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
I started doing this just for fun a while ago; I did the first 2 worlds and a bit. I wrote a bot to solve levels in the least possible 'moves'... it didn't take much more imagination to then optimise it for frame count.
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:52 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
LagDotCom wrote:
I started doing this just for fun a while ago; I did the first 2 worlds and a bit. I wrote a bot to solve levels in the least possible 'moves'... it didn't take much more imagination to then optimise it for frame count.
Cool. How does it compare to Ragowit's movie?
Posted: 11/24/2008 10:48 AM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
Well, I was using the NTSC instead of the PAL version, so the times weren't quite directly comparable. However I think I was on par for the first world or so and I think the bot managed to beat Ragowit's moves on a couple of levels. I'll check soon.
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 1/4/2009 2:00 PM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I still personally feel that this run shouldn't have been rejected. The poll was closed down extremely quickly after it was put up without many people being able to give their opinion. I personally found the movie entertaining, in spite of what others perceived as a lack of action. When watching Ragowit's run, you see the exact solutions to the puzzles laid out in front of you like it takes no thinking time at all, and that's the beauty of the run.
Posted: 1/4/2009 4:30 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I've been working slowly on this, just for fun, and I'm on stage 2-10. Here's the WIP (recorded with 0.98.28). It's a bit faster than my old WIP, but almost all levels are played identical to Ragowit's run. It's hard to compare this to Ragowit's run in terms of speed, since he used the E version, but I use slightly better strategies on some levels. However, due to different timings for the U version compared to the E version, I can't use the same strategy that Ragowit used on level 2-10 (the fires move too quickly compared to how fast I can move). So I have to come up with another strategy for this level, and I haven't had any luck yet. Anyway, I might do some more work on this soon. Please leave a comment if you can spot an improvement somewhere, so far I've pretty much copied Ragowit's run, so a whole new strategy somewhere would be nice. :)
My own page on this site.
Posted: 1/4/2009 7:42 PM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
Once I get back home to the UK, I will post my movie to see if you can gain anything from it. Oh yes, one other thing... there is a possibly visual bug that occurs if you use L+R. Your previous action appears to repeat, say if you climbed up, you will visually climb up again, then your position will snap back to what it was. If this can be abused to actually do the repeated action, many many shortcuts are possible.
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 1/4/2009 7:58 PM
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Slotermeyer
Player (98)
Joined: 7/16/2005
Posts: 34
30 frame improvement to 2-4.
Posted: 1/4/2009 10:05 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
LagDotCom wrote:
Once I get back home to the UK, I will post my movie to see if you can gain anything from it. Oh yes, one other thing... there is a possibly visual bug that occurs if you use L+R. Your previous action appears to repeat, say if you climbed up, you will visually climb up again, then your position will snap back to what it was. If this can be abused to actually do the repeated action, many many shortcuts are possible.
Thanks, I appreciate it. I actually found this L+R glitch myself some time ago, but couldn't find a use for it. As you say, it just seems to visually repeat the last action over and over, so although it's a nice glitch, I don't see how it can save any time. Hopefully I'm proven wrong since it's a cool trick. Nice solution for 2-4, Slotermeyer. :) EDIT: First attempt at 2-10. The solution is a littly ugly, with waiting periods and all, but it's the best I could come up with. I'll try some more today, but now we have something to compare to.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 1/6/2009 1:01 AM
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Slotermeyer
Player (98)
Joined: 7/16/2005
Posts: 34
Improved 2-10.
Posted: 1/10/2009 5:17 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I finished world 3 today. Here's the WIP. On level 3-3, I pushed the right block before the left block at the start of the level. Otherwise the solutions are the same as Ragowit's. On level 3-10, I looked in to how the counter that moves the screen upwards works, and it turns out that it's not affected by anything besides pausing the game, so I don't have to worry about it stopping when a block is falling or so.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 1/21/2009 12:59 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
LagDotCom wrote:
Once I get back home to the UK, I will post my movie to see if you can gain anything from it.
Just bumping this thread to see if you're back to UK yet, it would be nice to see if your run is faster than mine before I continue with world 4. EDIT: Well, I couldn't resist TASing the first 9 levels of world 4. :) Some notes: 4-1: New strategy at the beginning of the stage. Saves 30f. 4-2: New strategy after killing first fire. Saves 12f. 4-6: New strategy. Saves 79f. Level 4-10 will require a huge amount of planning, but I think it has a lot of room for improvement over Ragowit's run. I'll see what I can come up with for this level, but it might take some time to come up with a fast enough strategy. Here's the WIP.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 5/16/2009 10:02 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Bump! I picked up this TAS again this morning and finished 4-10 and 5-1. I used the same strategy as Ragowit on these levels, but with less waiting times on level 4-10 (due to differences between the U and the E version of the game). 5-10 looks the same too, it's a very easy level. Here's the WIP. I'll be pretty busy with exams these upcoming weeks, but hopefully I can post a WIP here now and then. Oh, and if anyone's interested, please give 4-10 a try, I have a hunch that it can be improved. I'll look into it some more myself, I think.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 5/16/2009 11:13 AM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
Oh, wow, I'd completely forgotten to post my WIP! Unfortunately it's kind of on a dead hard drive, I think. I'll see if I have any backups anywhere.
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 5/18/2009 9:30 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I've completed world 5 now. There are new strategies (some minor, and some bigger) on levels 3,5,6 and 10, so quite a lot of new stuff on this world. Overall, this world went smoothly. Here's the WIP.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 5/19/2009 7:41 PM
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Aglar
Expert player (3646)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Sega TAS of 2022 Sega TAS of 2014 Sega TASer of 2012 Sega TAS of 2012 NES TASer of 2011 NES TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2011
Had a quick look at your WIP and want to share a (quite boring) 21-frame-improvement in level 1-10 that I found while watching. Hope you can hex it in.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
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