I'm curious about this now. I recall long ago someone starting a TAS on this and stopping because of desyncs. I remember reading through it and being amused that whoever was doing it seemed to be dreading the Dark Force/Mother Brain gauntlet.
You seem to have everything well in-hand here, but just in case, I'll link you to this topic anyway; it's from when I attempted a run of the game on console. The important stuff:
-I finished the game with a party of Rolf/Rudo/Anna/Kain with levels of 18 across the board. I successfully run the Dark Force/Mother Brain gauntlet, though I do heal my HP before Mother Brain. Dark Force was straight up attack, Mother Brain was Snow Crown/Star Mist on the first round and go all-out on tech from there.
-I bought NO weapons/armor, only healing items and Pipes. Being a TAS, you should be able to forgo the healing items as well. Weapons/armor were either found in dungeons (Specifically dams) or stolen.
-I ran the game on the GBA version that was part of Phantasy Star Collection, but I don't think there are any difference from a speedrun strategy standpoint.
If there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask.
Emptyeye.com- Come for the music, stay for the blog.
Hi all.
I know it's been a while. There are reasons why I haven't finished the game yet. I feel kinda bad, so I'll just give you the scoop.
I made it to the final few dungeons on Dezo. Although it took me a lot of time, the worst part is that it got pretty tedious after a while. Especially since I had to do the dams like 4 times over because of some issues I hadn't foreseen when planning my route (missing tele-items mostly).
Although it's my first run ever, I really want to try to do it the best I can. I've noticed how a very small oversight in planning in the BEGINNING of the game can cause you a few seconds near the END of the game. Specifically, I overlooked the fact that I needed to enter and exit one of the temples on Dezo more than once, so I was short on escapipes...
The frustration got to me and I forgot about it for a while.
Doing a halfassed job is something I just can't stand though and it's gonna haunt me if I don't finish it, so I'll sacrifice a few weekends to finish it up.
Well, I made a promise to you guys and here it is:
Phantasy Star II: The pacifist wayCompleted in 68 minutes and 48 seconds
Barring any big oversights on my part, I think this is very close to optimal, but not quite.
The biggest blunder was finding out that this time I had one escapipe too many (buying one takes half a second or so)! Apart from that thorn in the eye, Im pleased with the route I took.
There may be some desyncing on at the beginning. I`m not sure why. There's a savefile check at the beginning, so you should use the empty .srm file I've attached. Maybe deleting the srm file leads to a desyncing at the beginning (at the name input), and having and empty one seems ok. Let me know if you encounter problems.
I actually use the save feature on Dezo. This allows me to use a telepipe to get to a town and teleport from there to another one, saving lotso time.
As I mentioned: This is Phantasy Star, Pacifist style. It's actually pretty boring to watch, since there's not much action. I'd set the frameskip to high. Be sure to watch the key moments of the game, there are some surprises there ;)
There was a weird glitch at the end. Talking to Lutz the last time crashed the sound or something. So no music or sound from Noah's ship on. Bummer, don't know what happened or how to fix it...
Let me hear your comments and enjoy!
Movie file: http://members.tele2.nl/iamsylvana/speedrun/zareon-phantasystar2.gmv
SRM file:
Phantasy_Star_II_(UE)_(REV 02)_[!].srm
And some save states for those who don't want to view the entire damn thing:
PSIISpeedrun-States.zip
First comment: what the fuck. almost 70 minutes of gameplay and not a single level, nor point of experience for that matter, gained.
Second comment: what the fuck. the three boss battles were screwed. What the hell were the game designers thinking allowing such a thing to occur (in the case of numbers 2 and 3)?
Third comment: That glitch (the lack of music one) kinda sucked, but I guess there isn't too much you can do if you don't know what caused it.
Last comment: given then *extreme* pacifist nature of this particular run, I'd perhaps think that actually letting the text scroll at a pace that's readable would be advisable. Given the lack of anything in general apart from walking around and the ever repetitive music, it'd be nice to actually be able to read the small portions of anything that actually happens since like bosses, they're so few and far between.
Otherwise, technically, a great piece of work. would probably score horribly low on entertainment though :P
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
Maybe now that you've finished this you can move on to PSIV? Pretty please? ;)
I don't think a PSIV TAS is really feasible; it is brutally hard. Unless some of the Tech/Skill combos can one-hit bosses, there'd be a LOT of level grinding needed, which would make a TAS pretty boring.
I don't think a PSIV TAS is really feasible; it is brutally hard. Unless some of the Tech/Skill combos can one-hit bosses, there'd be a LOT of level grinding needed, which would make a TAS pretty boring.
Much in the style of many games around that time, there is a super enemy that while initially painfully difficult to defeat without a lot of luck, gives an amount of experience that makes leveling mostly trouble free in a tas.
The enemy in this game is the sand worm, which gives a huge amount of experience (I vaguely recall at least 5 digits worth with one or two people alive) and is available to fight fairly early on and becomes easier to kill the more you level up.
The only trouble with this that previous runners had was just how many levels to gain while there as a particular later boss (lassic/lashiec, cant recall the exact name) that is rather cruel in its fighting pattern, as every second attack was an attack that his all characters or such.
So yeah, I'd say while it might be more difficult, it'd certainly prove to be more interesting to watch.
I don't think a PSIV TAS is really feasible; it is brutally hard. Unless some of the Tech/Skill combos can one-hit bosses, there'd be a LOT of level grinding needed, which would make a TAS pretty boring.
You should check out the last WIP in the PSIV thread. He got pretty near the end of the game, and it was a fun watch.
There wasn't too much leveling, and imo watching characters level is a heck of a lot more fun than watching characters walk around without fighting for 68 minutes ^_^
Extremely boring, but technically excellent. I absolutely LOVED the ending though. Huge WTF from me =)
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
First comment: what the fuck. almost 70 minutes of gameplay and not a single level, nor point of experience for that matter, gained.
Hehe, you don't have to resort to violence to save the solar system you know. This PS crew is like a bunch of hippies. (Well, Rolf and Shir were naked the entire time).
Second comment: what the fuck. the three boss battles were screwed. What the hell were the game designers thinking allowing such a thing to occur (in the case of numbers 2 and 3)?
I think that either a glitch or a blundering programming error (if there's a difference). There's almost no way you can pull that off in real play. The odds of succeeding are just horribly low.
You can also run from army-eyes and if you succeed it's like you defeated them. You just end up in the dam and that's it. You can then walk around Mota and stuff, but there's nothing to do. No triggers left, so you're stuck.
Last comment: given then *extreme* pacifist nature of this particular run, I'd perhaps think that actually letting the text scroll at a pace that's readable would be advisable. Given the lack of anything in general apart from walking around and the ever repetitive music, it'd be nice to actually be able to read the small portions of anything that actually happens since like bosses, they're so few and far between.
I hear you.
Letting the text go at readable speed would do little to eluviate the repetitiveness I think.
Otherwise, technically, a great piece of work. would probably score horribly low on entertainment though :P
Thanks. I kinda realized it wouldn't be terribly entertaining when I started it, but it's for the honor of the Phantasy Star series. It's a great games series and deserved a run. After I found the glitch I realized how relatively boring it would become, although it saved me tons of time ofcourse.
For the sake of having a PS2 run up, I do hope for publishment.
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
Buh? Is this EXTREME luck manipulation? Or is there something more being done to manage to avoid all the enemies?!
The fights are timed to specific frames when walking. If you wait a frame before making the step you can avoid the fight. So there are little 1 (sometimes 2) frame delays in walking which are quite unnoticable in realtime. These are when I avoid fights.
Deign wrote:
Extremely boring, but technically excellent. I absolutely LOVED the ending though. Huge WTF from me =)
Thanks.
I`m sorry to say I have no plans to work on PSIV now. Maybe at a later time, but right now it would be too time consuming for me.
I don't think I've ever seen a TAS manipulate so very much luck. I doubt you can get this published (though a high-quality run, it's boring as hell) but congrats on getting it done.
I think you should submit this run, even though it most likley won't get published. I used a frameskip throughout the entire movie, and even then it was kinda dull and boring.
The interesting bits are:
Avoiding all enemies
Running from bosses
Not gaining any XP at all
Wonder if there is a way to break sub 60min?
Cheers for this stuff though. It's a great game to play. Not as fun to watch though. Damn they made it slow paced.
Thanks for making this run!
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
I was going to make a run a few months ago, but wow I didn't know about the run-from-boss glitch! That's awesome!
I still watched this whole run trying to think of path changes--is it not possible to manipulate battle, i.e. make the robots miss? You could get away with not putting those characters in your party. At which point, was getting all of those characters necessary for the game? I don't know if it'd save any time to telepipe to slightly farther away cities for the dam chapter.
Other than those things I couldn't think of anything I'd change with this run at all, other than the sound glitch at the end, if there's a way :| That was a pain. I liked the run, I just don't think it's publishable, being so uneventfully long. MAJOR props for going through to the end, though! :D
Thanks for the replies.
Yes, naturally, I have thought about other routes. Not getting any characters being one. Here's why I don't think it is fruitful though:
I indeed needed Shir to get money. Not just for the pipes, but to learn the MUSIK tech, which costs 2000 meseta. The only other way to get fast money is to get stuff from boxes and sell them. Good boxes on route are in Climatrol, but that would mean getting the money after Neifirst. Meaning I would have to track back to OPUTA to learn MUSIK afterwards before going to the tower in Piata. Getting to get MUSIK while on route to climatrol saves quite some time.
Biggest problem would be army-eyes though. They hardly ever miss. And to manipulate all three of them to miss for 3 rounds (except last attack) is pretty much chanceless. You can't manipulate the battle round after you choose to fight (expect if there's a message, like when someone dies).
Maybe, though, it is possible with Rolf and Rudo, since Rudo has much hitpoints. With some dimates it might be done, but it takes heavy manipulation.
One good reason for me to take 4 characters was so that they could serve as cannon fodder.
The upshot is ofcourse that I don't have to visit Zema, and don't have to go through the introduction of all the members. I'm willing to see how much the difference would amount to.
Also, I wouldn't dare to publish the file with that mistake of buying one escapipe too many for Ikuto -_-
All in all, I think you can shave some seconds off the total time. But not minutes.
This was one of my favourite games as a child and have pretty intimate knowledge of the game.
Thinking about it, I don't think a non pacifist run would actually be too much longer than the no exp run.
Random ramblings to come off the top of my head, apologies in advance;
Storm gear could be abused heavily for set damage regardless of current level and slugmess/blastoid fights can be used for extremely quick levelling up.
When a blastoid duplicates itself, the copy has the exact same hitpoints remaining as the one it came from.
If you can take it down to one hit away from death, then let it replicate, either one will only take 1 hit to kill but still give full experience.
I used this heavily in a solo Rolf run to overlevel him to the max for NeiFirst.
Another thing to consider in these encounters, is battle formations play a role too.
You can encounter upto 5 enemies at any time.
When enemies duplicate, they wont multiply to numbers above what occupied the start of the fight. Simply,
_ = Empty spot.
B = Blastoid.
Encounter one:
_ B _ B _
You can only kill one, wait on it to replicate then kill one again. They will never replicate into one of those empty spots.
Encounter two:
_ B B B _
Here they will freely replicate into any of those three spaces.
Having never TAS'd this game, im not sure how easily you can just manipulate them into a favourable position, but thought this was worth pointing out anyway.
Something else to think about would be if Slug mess could possibly be more advantageous to battle, as they appear in groups of 5 and as long as you have 4 within 1 hit of death at the start of the turn, you can kill 2 each turn without taking a hit.
_ S1 S2 S3 S4
Rolf knifes S1, it dies. Rolf Knifes S2, also humped.
S3 duplicates into S2 spot. S4 duplicates into S1 spot.
No damage taken, very quick exp.
Sorry for the random possibly useless junk mentioned! Just things that come to mind straight away incase there's any use for them.
I say that a PSIV speedrun is doable. There are more fights than in PSII, so it would less boring to watch. Plus, as stated earlier, experience can easily be won. Finally, considering the number of interesting flashbacks (Myau, Daughter, the crashed caspule), the speedrun would be interesting. I would vonlunteer after BOF I and II
Here is the PS4 thread:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2478
Go try to drum up interest for this TAS again since it was recently released on Wii VC. I have been playing through it again and it's every bit as good as I remember.
Phantasy Star II was one of the best games for the Genesis, and as far as I know, the best PS on it. All I know is that I loved playing, although I never finished it (it started to get TO repetitive).
Yet, I am NOT going to give you support/help on your WIP's for the mere reason that I want to watch the full run, when it's made; I don't want to spoil the whole movie with WIP's.
I just know it's gonna be awesome! ;)
Although... I CAN give you SOME seemingly pointless info (not really).
When you defeat Neifirst, when the cutscene with the random explosions occurs, you can press the D-Pad to scroll the camera and screw the graphics momentarily. This can be used to entertainment effects.
When I figure out some more stuff, I'll be sure to post it.
PS: I'm remembering the time I saw Nei die, and... I just couldn't look at PS2 the same way. I felt so sad...
I'm Espyo from the SRB2 Forums.
Current project: A Pikmin fan engine, Pikifen
