really? I thought it only dealt critical damage, not instant killing...
No, it's an instant kill, which is why it doesn't work against bosses.
meh. it only uses more recording :P.
I usually stop pressing A at the second last character. I move one frame and then press A again, one frame before the arrow indicating more text.
would turbo move even faster?
It would (at least I'm fairly sure it would, it's been a long time since I checked) advance dialog at the earliest frame possible, at the fastest speed without there being a need to constantly check to make sure you've advanced dialog at the fastest rate.
i watched part of your video. I noticed you only buy a sword and no defense upgrade. Would not buying a shield and a helmet be worth it?
as for the turbO: you need to find the right sequence... And besides, the flow of the text isn't always constant
i watched part of your video. I noticed you only buy a sword and no defense upgrade. Would not buying a shield and a helmet be worth it?
I didn't really bother with defense early on as the stuff was kinda weak, and I was of the opinion that it wasn't going to the difference between life or death of a character. Not having any defense also helps when killing your own team off for death warping.
as for the turbO: you need to find the right sequence... And besides, the flow of the text isn't always constant
Uh, not really. Lets say you hold the button that turbos "A" on the first frame, then you hold the button that turbos "B" on the second frame. Hold both after that until the dialog is done. It will be the fastest method.
I don't know about that. I didn't because I didn't think it'd make a big enough difference to be worthwhile. If you plan to death warp, spend as much money as you can prior though, since you lose half when you die. Do all armor/weapon (outside of accessory, which would likely never be equipped anyway) changes during battle, as it's much faster.
The first time I thought that armor would make a difference, although I don't know if I had any at that point outside of the k.sludge rare shield drops (armygl/some kind of shield, first is a katt equip, second is a ryu/sten equip that can neutralize magic if you're not on full hp), was at the fight with Ray at the grand church. You need to survive an attack or two that hits all party members that's pretty powerful, and I doubt without armor that I would've survived.
Also, when plausible, get better weapon drops through fights. I'd suggest trying to get a meowst for katt, as the difference in power between that and her previous weapon is pretty big. Check the FAQ to see which enemies would drop worthwhile weapons.
thanks to your tricks, I was able to beat you by about 1000 frames after the roaches
- i killed 2 harpies after the 2nd round AND i didn't heal
- i finished both roach fights in 2 rounds.
However, I realized I may have used 32 more frames to get the fire rock...
I just finished watching it, it's definitely a lot better than your previous run. I still disagree with naming Ryu "A", but eh, I'm not the one making the run :)
A few points that I feel are worth bringing up:
1) You probably should've manipulated the fight with Baba so he didn't drop the Stamina (you'd manipulate it on the frame of entry iirc) unless you specifically wanted it for something.
2) Was skipping the silverDR faster than not getting it? I recall it doing a bit nicer damage to the boss that follows, but the time to get it might take longer than it saves. Also, I'm sure you noticed, but spells can crit too, and you didn't seem to abuse this point in the first boss fight with nina.
3) In nimufu's tower, you go straight for the platform that has the wisebl on it. Did that platform arrive sooner than the one on the left? (I've fast forwarded past it twice now by accident, so I couldn't actually see).
4) Before the Boss fight in Simafort, you head down to the shops and buy something/iron bow. You go down that way again later on your way out. Was it neccessary to get some wfruits or something? if so, could you have bought them on an earlier pass to save the trip there, and then gone again on your way out?
5) You take Bow alone to trouts mansion. Wouldn't taking Ryu also be faster?
6) You can ring the bell to call the whale while in that beach area after you get it, walk to the water and press A, it saves like 100 frames or something.
And that's about it for my comments. Keep it up :)
. Also, I'm sure you noticed, but spells can crit too, and you didn't seem to abuse this point in the first boss fight with nina.
i know, but whenever I did it, he seemed to do his poison chop. AS for the dagger : it'S definitly faster
3) In nimufu's tower, you go straight for the platform that has the wisebl on it. Did that platform arrive sooner than the one on the left? (I've fast forwarded past it twice now by accident, so I couldn't actually see).
mmm.... should try it first
5) You take Bow alone to trouts mansion. Wouldn't taking Ryu also be faster?
of course it is. But speedruns are also about spectacular ;)
And that's about it for my comments. Keep it up :)[/quote]
A few points that I feel are worth bringing up:
1) You probably should've manipulated the fight with Baba so he didn't drop the Stamina (you'd manipulate it on the frame of entry iirc) unless you specifically wanted it for something.
done. Saved about 60 frames. I needed to redo this anyway. I used more frame than I should have in the pub
I know I'm no help in the progress whatsoever, but I just wanted to tell you that you have my total support on your run. BoF2 is one of my favorite games of all times.
I haven't watched the progress, I never managed to make it work. The only emulator that seems to work on my computer is ZSNES, so I can't watch progresses despite wanting to for years (I was a lurker for a long time). But after reading comments, I wanted to reply to something.
janus wrote:
Atma wrote:
5) You take Bow alone to trouts mansion. Wouldn't taking Ryu also be faster?
of course it is. But speedruns are also about spectacular ;)
I disagree with that. If you name Ryu "A" to save frames, I don't see why you'd use Bow alone in Trout's House. Unless Bow can OHKO everything, and I doubt Shot works against Trout, then bringing Ryu in would make the Trout battle go significantly faster, wouldn't it?
And, yes, drop items should *always* be avoided, unless the dropped item makes you gain frames later. Even though obtaining a Medusa Shield after killing only one N.Rider (random example) looks impressive, if it doesn't end up saving time later on, then it should be discarded. As for the drop item against Baba, I don't see how a Stamina would ever be useful in TAS. After all, you manipulate things, you can manipulate not to get hit. Well, most of the time, anyway - many attacks are unavoidable, but you can manipulate enemies not to use their strongest attacks, or their attacks with the longest animation.
Anyway, I am definitely looking forward to see this TAS completed. You have my total support~
I can tell by watching that you redid a considerably large portion of the run, some parts look a whole lot smoother now. You also seemed to optimize attack animations from the looks of things too.
Now (outside of the obvious "he's still named "A"" thing), the only real things I noticed this time around was that you seem to be going entirely for speed, not really sacrificing any time for better weapons for fights, and mostly going for mostly dragon usage battles, and always the same dragon at that (no variety I say).
That and this time you completely skipped getting the WiseBL, which I'd say would be a somewhat costly mistake later on.
Somewhat unrelated to your run: I'd say my mid-endgame on BoF 2 would've been easily improvable had I not more or less gone out of my way to avoid using the dragon more or less exclusively for all the (boss) battles after I got them. I went with physical attacks and such more often simply because they gave better visual variety than seeing the same attack over and over again. Repetitive usage of attacks in a game this long is one of the factors that can kill entertainment. It might be the fastest way, but it isn't always the most entertaining.
Now (outside of the obvious "he's still named "A"" thing), the only real things I noticed this time around was that you seem to be going entirely for speed, not really sacrificing any time for better weapons for fights, and mostly going for mostly dragon usage battles, and always the same dragon at that (no variety I say).
The game isn't over yet; I can use more dragons later ;)
That and this time you completely skipped getting the WiseBL, which I'd say would be a somewhat costly mistake later on.
I can still cook it. And I probably get 2 or 3 at the same time
Somewhat unrelated to your run: I'd say my mid-endgame on BoF 2 would've been easily improvable had I not more or less gone out of my way to avoid using the dragon more or less exclusively for all the (boss) battles after I got them. I went with physical attacks and such more often simply because they gave better visual variety than seeing the same attack over and over again. Repetitive usage of attacks in a game this long is one of the factors that can kill entertainment. It might be the fastest way, but it isn't always the most entertaining.
mmm... speed or entertainment. The run with joker doom in FF6 did get approved; can't a similar one get approved too if it saves time?
The game isn't over yet; I can use more dragons later ;)
True.
I can still cook it. And I probably get 2 or 3 at the same time
Getting the ingredients required to make wisebl's takes considerably more time than it takes to just use wfruit's instead. I recall that you need fish for it, and I'm pretty certain that each time you can only get one wisebl, not two.
mmm... speed or entertainment. The run with joker doom in FF6 did get approved; can't a similar one get approved too if it saves time?
Well sure, it's possible, but eh, outside of the battles this game is really lacking in entertainment, and if all the battles look the same, that's a pretty big hit to the entertainment factor.
As things go, FF6 goes for a reasonable portion of the game without the joker doom trick, you get dragons pretty early in this game.
As far as I'm concerned, I was totally into the FF6 TAS until Setzer joined. Then it became boring to me, and despite trying to convince myself several times to rewatch the run later on, I never got myself to do it. Yes, cheap attacks against every boss, such as Joker Doom in FF6 or Ryu's dragons in BoF2 are big entertainment killers. But... you have to deal with this... the aim is fastest completion, after all. I mean, I really would rather see the boss battles not be plagued with dragon abuse, really. But that's not really the aim of the site. Which is a bit of a shame ; I'm pretty sure that runs that trade a lot of time for much more entertainment in battles (not using dragons) would be rejected.
As for naming the hero "A"... well, I personally prefer default names for TASes, but I have no problem with such names. It's kinda part of the game being a TAS, after all. I am okay with it. I mean, it doesn't tick me off like it used to.
Atma wrote:
Getting the ingredients required to make wisebl's takes considerably more time than it takes to just use wfruit's instead. I recall that you need fish for it, and I'm pretty certain that each time you can only get one wisebl, not two.
There's a villager named Daiye that can be recruited in house #6 who sells various types of fish, including Tuna, to cook WiseBL's. I have no idea if cooking WiseBL's would be faster than simply using W.Fruits (and I actually doubt it), but I thought I'd mention it. Then again, that means you'd have to recruit tenants in the first phase, and build the second phase of town, which is time-consuming.
Tons of useful information like that can be found in Ben Siron's Handbook at http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/563530/5436.
the aim is fastest completion, after all. I mean, I really would rather see the boss battles not be plagued with dragon abuse, really. But that's not really the aim of the site. Which is a bit of a shame ; I'm pretty sure that runs that trade a lot of time for much more entertainment in battles (not using dragons) would be rejected.
In my run I opted for the emperor sword and attack buffing spells that put my damage greater than dragon attacks, which allowed for a better variety of killing stuff. Eg. start with g.dragon, then physically beat the shit out of the boss until it dies.
Atma wrote:
There's a villager named Daiye that can be recruited in house #6 who sells various types of fish, including Tuna, to cook WiseBL's.
Indeed, This is part of the "taking too much time to be worthwhile" I meant. recruiting and such, not to mention I believe you'd need to waste a fair amount of extra time in order to get the other 3 houses built.
Indeed, that's where I pulled a lot of information when I did my run. However, it lacks information about one key factor that I wasn't able to find: toasty hits. They're instant kill, but what are the stats and workings behind them? I was never able to manipulate one to occur, otherwise I would've tested to see if I could pull it off on a boss (highly unlikely) like deathevn, and end the game without using anfini :P
Getting the ingredients required to make wisebl's takes considerably more time than it takes to just use wfruit's instead. I recall that you need fish for it, and I'm pretty certain that each time you can only get one wisebl, not two.
There is a small chance when cooking of getting a double portion; back before I knew there was a WiseBL formula, I used to make more by cooking WiseBL + Antidote -> WiseBL and resetting when it got charcoal'd.
I just got out of Highfort. Because I died inside (1st torubo battle), i can't warp back to tuneland.
My question : how soon sould I get Bleu? Since she already has warp, this spell can sometimes be quicker than death...
I solbed my problem and got her right after highfort. There's a way to roll around the mountains south of the thieves tomb.
I will post another version of my run after I get in the queen's body
I'm pretty sure you can get Bleu anytime after getting the whale. You just have to visit her house south of Highfort, then go to the magic school in Hometown.
I remember this because I would always pick her up and then head to monster island for some mega-leveling.
I'm pretty sure you can get Bleu anytime after getting the whale. You just have to visit her house south of Highfort, then go to the magic school in Hometown.
I remember this because I would always pick her up and then head to monster island for some mega-leveling.
I confirm that. The only prerequisite is talking to the ghosts at her home. The thing I cannot confirm is if you need to simply enter her house (doubt it), talk to the first ghost, talk to the second, or talk to both, to trigger the event that makes her join you.
i only needed to talk to one.
However, getting her right when you get the whale is frame-consuming. i'd rather be at to highfort because it's in the same neighbourhood.
But would it be better before or after?
PS: i restarted my run. I was able to same 300 frames by manipulating the battles at the beginning of the witch tower
EDIT: when doing the frame advance in battlefields, when should I provoke a battle? I usually do it when I need to wait more than 2 frames
