Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
And thank you for posting the trick. I would encourage anyone who ever tries to improve this run to use your trick since it looks better. I would do it if it didn't mean having to redo the whole stage.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
FractalFusion wrote:
The lesser enemies before do a max of 2 damage but damage animation can be cancelled on a wall, so damage is taken every 64 frames.
Well I didn't encounter any walls where I could cancel the damage animation. Or maybe it's possible and I didn't see it. But could you explain in detail or post an smv where you can do it.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I gave it my all with Bospider. I tried everything from killing a certain number of enemies to sliding down the wall and even a combination of both, and this is the best I came up with. Please feel free to improve if there is a way.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1603381675/mmx100ptas.smv
Good to hear that you're still working on it. Keep going.
Sigma 2:
- Earlier in the thread, I mentioned a trick that can be used to do mid-air hadoken. It should be tested on Rangda Bangda (the face boss).
- Try to manipulate Storm Eagle so that he does the wind as short as possible.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Still at Sigma 2. Right now I'm in the process of manipulating Storm Eagle through hex editing. I normally post a WIP after each level just in case I make any errors so anyone can point them out so I don't have to redo too much.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
FractalFusion wrote:
Try to manipulate Storm Eagle so that he does the wind as short as possible.
I got him to flap his wings for 120 frames but it didn't come close to saving any time in the battle. And dashing forward until he stops flapping is no option because the lag caused by the explosion is a killer. Do you think it's possible to get him to flap for less time or even better, get him to not flap at all?
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I decided to finish up the level. I couldn't find a way to make the Storm Eagle battle any quicker.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/879626494/mmx100ptas.smv
edit: Do you have any comments on Sigma 2 and tips for the rest of the game? If not, this will be my last WIP and I will finish the game and submit. But please don't leave me hanging. I want this run to be as good as possible.
dezbeast, how much time does using hadoken on the nose of the boss save as opposed to using Chameleon Sting 4 times?
4matsy wrote:
I imagine the trick would be used on D-Rex (the tank boss) too?
In my run there is a way to do it quickly without resorting to mid-air hadoken.
Sigma 3 notes:
- Try the mid-air hadoken trick at Sting Chameleon. It is possible to have Sting Chameleon jump up, use his tail 1-3 times, and drop down, but I don't know how reliable it is.
- No other comments, really.
Sigma 4 notes:
- You can knock back Velguader with a yellow charged shot, though I don't know if that saves time.
- The final form cannot be defeated with hadoken (though I haven't tried everything).
Good luck. PM me if you have any issues (it may take me up to two days to respond however).
Hey dezbeast,
Did you try taking out both the blue and red eyes of Rangda Bangda with one mid-air hadouken? That was the main reason I posted the demo of hadouken while charging in the other thread.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Thanks for the comments.
Fractal, I didn't bother trying the other way. I just compared to your any% run and it turned out to be 4 frames faster. I took into account not ending in the middle.
Hanzou. Killing both eyeballs with one shot using mid-air hadouken wastes time. I don't have enough time to charge up the ice block without wasting a huge amount of time. The way I did it is much faster.
So, I did enjoy your run, dezbeast, good job!
I think, if nobody minds, when I get some time in May here, I'd like to claim the run to see if I can tighten things up. I thought I could see a few places of improvement, and I'd like to be able to tighten it up.
The planning period, however, can start now, and if I get a really free day between now and the end of school, I could probably start on the intro stage.
So let's talk possible improvements, shall we? *Throws hat into the arena!*
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I'll post all the improvements I know of later on. I have to look through my run again to do so. I calculated that around 67 frames can be saved just from what I know.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I know that the spark mandrill heart tank can be collected a bunch of frames faster. After dashing off the left most ledge, a boomerrang can be fired upward that will grab the tank. You don't need to make X hug the wall to grab it.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Rick wrote:
So, I did enjoy your run, dezbeast, good job!
I think, if nobody minds, when I get some time in May here, I'd like to claim the run to see if I can tighten things up. I thought I could see a few places of improvement, and I'd like to be able to tighten it up.
The planning period, however, can start now, and if I get a really free day between now and the end of school, I could probably start on the intro stage.
So let's talk possible improvements, shall we? *Throws hat into the arena!*
Alright here are all the improvements that I'm aware of.
Intro stage:
At the part where I jumped near the end of the downslope, if you wait a bit later before jumping you can save 1 frame.
The part where I get damaged by the cars can be done 2 or 3 frames faster, but I don't know how.
See if you can get the Vile fight done faster. Though it was 12 frames faster than Fractal's any% run, I'm not 100% sure it's optimized to the fullest.
Chill Penguin:
At the part with the ostrich looking enemies shoot the second ostrich and dash one extra time before jumping. That will save 1 frame.
At the first high metal stump, I was dashing before I made the jump. Doing so required me to press back 4 frames. If you dash jump and land at your jumping spot you'll only have to press back twice, saving 2 frames.
Boomer Kuwanger:
Boss battle is the only improvement that I know of in this level. If you manage to beat BK as fast as Fractal did, you'll save 6 frames.
Storm Eagle:
Right after getting the head armor, wall jump from the right. That will save at least 7 frames. And when reaching the top, wall jump from the left. That will save 3 frames.
At the part right before reaching the 3 platforms suspended in mid-air, dash one extra time and land in the middle platform. That will save 1 frame.
Spark Mandrill:
If you're lucky, you may be able shave off 8 frames at the miniboss. You just have to hit it 4 times instead of 3 before you land on the ground.
Armored Armadillo:
When dash jumping off of the carts make sure you do it as early as possible so that you have as much time in the air as you can. When you're in the air you go the speed of the dash plus the speed of cart. I didn't realize that the first time through and lost around 13 frames by not doing it.
At the end when you die from the bird, make sure the cart doesn't go by. It causes 6 frames of lag.
Sting Chameleon:
Manipulate SC to jump lower and you'll save 4 frames.
Chill Penguin revisited:
When you approach the first enemy with the axe, you can bypass the metal trunk in front of it without the trunk stopping your horizontal movement by using Rolling Shield on it. That will save 6 frames.
Armored Armadillo revisited:
I see no errors this time around, however I suggest you try out the strategy that Hero of the Day posted. It could be faster.
Sigma 3:
If you have better luck with the lag in this stage, you can gain a couple more frames.
Sigma 4:
The wall climbing can be done 1 frame faster.
hero of the day wrote:
I know that the spark mandrill heart tank can be collected a bunch of frames faster. After dashing off the left most ledge, a boomerrang can be fired upward that will grab the tank. You don't need to make X hug the wall to grab it.
Do you know how many frames faster it is?
Edit: Ok I was messing around trying to get the heart tank from the ledge, and I didn't find a way to destroy the turtle without wasting time. Hero, could you post a demo on how it's done?
Edit 2: It turns out you only waste a few frames killing the turtle. However, I couldn't grab the heart piece for the life of me.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Thanks, Hero. I never fully understood the physics of the boomerang. I don't think I ever would've figured out on my own how to grab that heart piece while jumping from the ledge. BTW, it saves at least 33 frames by doing that.
So were there a lot of problems insofar as lag and manipulation, dezbeast? I've not really tried to do luck manipulation on this game before (and I'm sure there's a few tricks here and there I can look at in the Tricks page), but I was curious about any unforeseen problems.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
As far as lag goes, I think your best bet would be to constantly compare your wip with my run and make sure I don't get ahead, because I was very methodical in lag reduction. The biggest lag reductions come from the boss explosions by killing the bosses at the right frame or killing Storm Eagle and Flame Mammoth so that they explode out of view. That saves anywhere from 25-30 frames a pop. There's also a ton of lag reduction involved with the explosion of the ship in Lauch Octopus's level. The rest of the lag reductions consists of mostly shooting the Buster. Also dancing around on the cart in Armored Armadillo stage get's rid of some.
With luck manipulation, the only trouble I had was with Armored Armadillo and Bo Spider. Those were the only times that hex-editing was an absolute must for me.
Alright. I'll hope that I can get some fairly good luck manipulation then on both of them. Either that, or learn to use a hex editor pretty quickly.
I also put down the frame improvements on my notes section of my Debug Modes/Unused Stuff wiki, so I can access them whenever I need to and save space on my laptop.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Let me know when you start. I want to help as much as I can. Also I decided to do the intro stage. I was curious how much better I can get it. I managed to shave off 8 frames. 6 of them came from the Vile fight. 1 from less lag with one of the bees. And the other one from the jump after the slope. It turns up that the part with cars can't be improved. At least not to my knowledge. The frames seem to have been lost due to some sort of frame rule regarding Vile's ship.
It's definitely not going to be until probably around the 5th of May that I start this run. I have too much on my plate as far as final papers and stuff go and I need to get them all done.
Interesting finds though. I'll probably mess around some with the Intro stage myself once I get started to see if I can catch anything else.
I did want to say, I have a small start to this run. I'm only at 800 frames right now. I plan to do some more research (much more) before I jump ahead and work more with it.
I'd like to know some smaller details, such as if jumping is slower than walking, how many frames screen transitions take, basic stuff like that.
I also plan to follow dezbeast's route for the first two stages (Chill Penguin, Boomer Kuwanger), but I'm not entirely sure where I plan to go from there.
I'll be needing a lot of help on this one. This is only my second TAS here, and I'm takin' on a big job here.
