I'll get my hands on a rupee and bomb route now
little question:
we can get 99 rupees from ECT and 99 rupees from terminia on the first cycle without loosing any time.
the 2 rupees from NCT would be wasted time. the time it costs to load the new areas and to speak to the bank guy again takes much too much time for just 2 rupees. there are tons of ways to get 2 rupees somewhere over the run without loosing any time ;)
oh wait, I remember that problem, we need the wallet upgrade in order to be able to buy bomb bag and 20 bombchus in one trip, so the 2 rupees are important!
if I remeber right, petrie said once, that if we get another 99 rupees from terminia, the clock tower will have opened already until we arrive there, what would cost some time and there are better ways to get 99 rupees for sure.
ECT is definately out of the door. it's a really slow way to get rupees
I'm pretty sure, that slowking's idea to use the zora pots the game is by far the best idea, so the only real question left is, how many rupees we'll need
getting bomb drops costs time as well, so buying could is sometimes the better choice
argh, it's so complicated
we can get 99 rupees from ECT and 99 rupees from terminia on the first cycle without loosing any time.
SL figured out that 2 trips through termina field are actually faster than getting the chest in the Inn (due to transition times), but other than that, yeah we will get 2x 99r in the first cycle anyway.
the 2 rupees from NCT would be wasted time. the time it costs to load the new areas and to speak to the bank guy again takes much too much time for just 2 rupees. there are tons of ways to get 2 rupees somewhere over the run without loosing any time ;)
But we have to get them in the first cycle in order to get the Adault wallet...
oh wait, I remember that problem, we need the wallet upgrade in order to be able to buy bomb bag and 20 bombchus in one trip, so the 2 rupees are important!
Yeah otherwise we would have to get money from the bank twice, which also costs time. But not having the adault wallet would also make problems in other ereas of the game. For example we couldn't play 2 Zora games after another since the wallet would be full.
And we have to get the adault wallet at some point, so we have to make that desposit anyway...
if I remeber right, petrie said once, that if we get another 99 rupees from terminia, the clock tower will have opened already until we arrive there, what would cost some time and there are better ways to get 99 rupees for sure.
ECT is definately out of the door. it's a really slow way to get rupees
Well my suggestion was probably motivated in having to redo as little as possible in the first cycle, as SL is going crazy as it and I can totaly understand why.
But I postet the best way to get those 2r in my post above...
Don't worry about me, I'll redo as many times as is required to get the best run we can get here. I don't have to like it, but I have to do it. :P
But yes, I'm not actively working on it at all until we've got a solid route.
good to know
we should buy new bombchus and bombs after bow, because we have to warp to do CT to get to ranch and in our current route idea, we do ranch and get new chus then
the only time, when we warp to CT not to buy new bombchus is to go to the ranch and combinating this with going to the shop would skip one SoS
the problem is, that we may not have enough bombchus for following parts after this. I'll test it
oh, and how are we going to defeat all the bosses?
-bow fight: 2 normal jumpslashes or one deku stick jumpslash?
-odolwa: normal sword spins
-wizrobe: bow, sword or deku stick?
-goth: bow
-gyorg: zora link
-garo's master: deku stick or normal sword?
-twimmold: bow
-majora's mask: ?
we would be able to 3-4 deku sticks on the from deku palace to woodfall temple. one from the pot and 2-3 from manipulating the dekus to drop deku sticks.
we would be able to get another stick from the pot later in the game again.
altogether, we could get 5 ones. garo's master takes 4 to kill, so here should be the best place to use them. bow fight is nearly as fast with normal sword and wizrobe should be quickly beatable with bow
edit:
which pirate's battle are we going to do together?
we should buy new bombchus and bombs after bow, because we have to warp to do CT to get to ranch and in our current route idea, we do ranch and get new chus then
the only time, when we warp to CT not to buy new bombchus is to go to the ranch and combinating this with going to the shop would skip one SoS
Are you doing a complete route with explosives at the moment? That would be really cool.
we would be able to 3-4 deku sticks on the from deku palace to woodfall temple. one from the pot and 2-3 from manipulating the dekus to drop deku sticks.
we would be able to get another stick from the pot later in the game again.
Sure sucks that croch-stabbing doesn't work in MM. (usually when I say something like this someone finds a way to make it work XD )
Btw. we will be at the deku-stick-pot 3 times:
1. woodfall1
2. FFWW to snowhead
3. woodfall2
Edit:
Something weird just happened to me. I somehow got link to swing around with a broken Dekustick and it didn't get broken again when I hit something with it. Now if this thing does as much damage as a normal deku stick we could do a bossbattle with only one stick. o.O
http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/infinite_dekustick.jpg (I have a cheat on in this picture but that was just to be able to recreate it. The first time it happend to me it was without a cheat)
You can swing it around like a normal sword and it doesn't use up Dekusticks. If it's not yet known )which I knwo is unlikely) I call it infinite dekustick. XD
Edit:
A Dodongo takes 6 normal hits with this thing to kill. Is this the normal strength of a deku stick? I can't remember the site with the strength-table...
Edit2: Yep that short deku stick does exactly as much damage as the long ones. I didn't know that sticks do doable the damage of the normal sword. o.O
Something weird just happened to me. I somehow got link to swing around with a broken Dekustick and it didn't get broken again when I hit something with it. Now if this thing does as much damage as a normal deku stick we could do a bossbattle with only one stick. o.O
http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/infinite_dekustick.jpg (I have a cheat on in this picture but that was just to be able to recreate it. The first time it happend to me it was without a cheat)
You can swing it around like a normal sword and it doesn't use up Dekusticks. If it's not yet known )which I knwo is unlikely) I call it infinite dekustick. XD
Surprisingly that trick is older than power crouches. While it has the potential to be useful, I don't know if it can be incorparated.
Well if we are going to use deku stick against one of the bosses (I think they would work best against the last two majoras) it should certainly help...
thsi trick only works, if you break the deku stick without standing on the ground, so it doesn't help for bosses ;)
I'll test my woodfall boss key skip theory now and if it works with 4 mega flips, I'll show you my route then.
I made a explosive run and I have a route, that works perfectly and seems very good. maybe it is improveable, let's see
damn it, I have some things left to upload with mega flipping and especially I have to test that woodfall boss key skip with hookshot clipping, but now my TAS Input Plugin doesn't work anymore :/
when I load a game with TAS Input Plugin on, it doesn't register it and the message "there's no controller connected" appears on the game screen
can anyone help me?
edit: something in the input setting was wrong. I fixed it
thsi trick only works, if you break the deku stick without standing on the ground, so it doesn't help for bosses ;)
Now that's just not true. I broke all my sticks without any hovering or being in the air orsomethign. I just rapidly hit the C-Button while hitting the owl (or dodongos later on) and sooner or later the stick ended up like this. And if it works on Dodongos, it should also work on a boss
we'll need to test this, but I still doubt, that it is possible with enemys. a owl statue knocks you away after jumpslahing it and this could be one of the reasons, why this works ;)
I'm still working on that woodfall hookshot clip skip, it turns out to be much more complicated than I first thought, because the area is build of water, so everything under the room is water and because if a explosion hits gecko, a little cutscence starts and this one cancels ISG, but I think, I know how to do it now
we'll need to test this, but I still doubt, that it is possible with enemys. a owl statue knocks you away after jumpslahing it and this could be one of the reasons, why this works ;)
Like I said it worked with hitting Dodongos. It was even easier by far...
Just try it yourself. Hit Dodongos like crazy and it will work.
I'm still working on that woodfall hookshot clip skip, it turns out to be much more complicated than I first thought, because the area is build of water, so everything under the room is water and because if a explosion hits gecko, a little cutscence starts and this one cancels ISG, but I think, I know how to do it now
ok, here's the new Woodfall Boss Key Skip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOV3ZRj0ffw
I've just compared it to Mukki's TAS and my way to beat Woodfall Temple is over a minute faster :)
I'll write the route now. it's basicly your route with more details ;)
If we have the explosives at this point that's really really nice. ^^
I like especially how it goes directly from the mini-boss background music to the Odolwa background music and how the two overlap for some time. :D
here's the route in progress:
First Cycle:
Go through intro
Go to Night of Final Day
Get 200 rupees, Adult's Wallet and Magic
Get SoT and OoT
Second Cycle:
Buy Bomb Bag and 20 Bombchus
Leave to GB
Swordslide down to fence, 2 Bombchu Hovers, SS
SS-ESS combination over to Mikau
Get Zora Mask
SS and Activate Owl
Play Zora Pots Game twice (250r; 15b; 18c)
Go to Fountain via Air Swimming
Blow up rock with Bombchu
WW to Ikana (250r; 13b; 4c)
SS and Activate Owl
Get 5 Bombs from plant (250r; 18b; 4c)
Swamp via river
SS-ESS combination over to Komune
Get Bottle with Red Poition
Zora Link SS-ESS combination over to Octo
Kill Octo with Boomerang
Zora Sidehopping to Deku Palace and hurt yourself for Woodfall Death Warp (250r; 16b; 4c)
Beat Deku Palace with new strat (video will be uploaded tomorrow)
Get Sonata of Awaking and SoS (250r; 14b; 3c)
Get 4 Deku Sticks along the way to Woodfall Temple from pot and manipulating Dekus
Enter Woodfall Temple
Do first room the normal way (without Bomb Long Jump)
Clear gap with one Mega Flip and 2 Bombchu Hovers
Beat Lizarfos with 2 normal Sword Jumpslashes
Get Bow and kill yourself with Bomb (250r; 12b; 1c)
Warp to CT
Buy 20 Bombchus and 10 Bombs (140r; 20b; 20c)
Leave to GB
Superslide to Ranch
Ranch early
Beat Aliens
Get Bottle (140r; 18b; 16c)
Go to Pirate's Fortress
Clear gap with 2 Mega Flips
Get Hookshot via Bombchu Superslide through barrels and get first Zora Egg
Get Second Zora Egg from the entrance to the left via Bombchu Recoil Flip from Hookshot thing
Empty Bottles (140r; 15b; 13c)
Go to Pirate's Fortress again
Get right Zora Egg via Mega Flip OoB strategy
Get last Zora Egg via Recoil Flip (140r; 11b; 9c)
Empty Bottles again
Go to Pinnacle Rock twice and get rest of Zora Eggs
Learn New Wave Bossa Nova
Play Zora Pots Game twice (270r; 11b; 9c)
Get 5 Bombs From Pot
Enter GBT
Clear gap with Mega Flip
Ultimate GBT Sequence Break with Bomb Hovers in the beginning (270r; 10b; 6c)
Beat Gyorg
Warp to Woodfall
Get 1 Deku Stick from pot
Go to Gecko
Ultimate Woodfall Sequence Break (270r; 4b; 0c)
Warp to CT
Buy 20 Bombs and 20 Bombchus (130r; 20b; 20c)
Warp to Woodfall
Get Deku Stick from pot again
Fly to Fairy Fountain
WW to Snowhead (130r; 18b; 7c)
Climb Snowhead (130r; 15b; 5c)
Sidehop Block Skip
Get past Bridge Room with Bomb Long Jump
Scarecrow Song Skip
Get over to Wizrobe via 2 Bomb Recoil Flips (130r; 12b; 5c)
Beat Wizrobe with new stretagy, video will follow soon
Hookshot to Torch
2 Bomb Hovers and 2 Bombchu Hovers up to Snowballs
Blow them up via Bomb + Fire Arrow strategy (130r; 9b; 3c)
Mega Flip to Boss Door
Boss Key Skip (130r; 7b; 0c)
Beat Goth
Warp to CT
Buy 20 Bombchus and 10 Bombs (20r; 17b; 20c)
and ideas to improve it?
we'll bomb hover into the tower, btw. that's thousand times faster than playing 2-3 song of double times ;)
I still doubt, that we would arrive the ranch at the right time
we definately have to play a song of double time before we go to the ranch. it has to be day, when we go over to the GB fountain to play zora pots game. so the first moment, when we can play a song of double time, is after zora pots game.
then it would be 6 pm. from there we would do FFWW to Ikana, get the twinrova bottle, deku palace and woodfall temple.
does this really take 8-9 game time hours, because we have to arrive at 3 am at the ranch
I still doubt, that we would arrive the ranch at the right time
we definately have to play a song of double time before we go to the ranch. it has to be day, when we go over to the GB fountain to play zora pots game. so the first moment, when we can play a song of double time, is after zora pots game.
then it would be 6 pm. from there we would do FFWW to Ikana, get the twinrova bottle, deku palace and woodfall temple.
does this really take 8-9 game time hours, because we have to arrive at 3 am at the ranch
Yeah that was pretty much the plan. Playing the sodt directly after the pot-game. And yeah it should take about that time. Though ofcourse it could be that we arrive an hour early. We'll see when we get there...
Btw. if we hover into the tower the question is if we should play the Inverted Song of Time right after the ranch to reduce those "night of" "day of" messages.
Zora Link SS-ESS combination over to Octo
You could also do the "swim in shallow water"-glitch at this point. I don't know how it holds up against SS-ISS though...
MrGrunz wrote:
Zora Sidehopping to Deku Palace and hurt yourself for Woodfall Death Warp (250r; 16b; 4c)
Couldn't we do a speed- entertainment- tradeoff here and the song of soaring instead. Having to listen to the beeping for the whole time is REALLY annoying. ^^"
Or as an alternative just damage yourself enough that the beeping doesn't start and take some damage from the lizard...
MrGrunz wrote:
Beat Deku Palace with new strat (video will be uploaded tomorrow)
our goal is the fastest time and I think, that it on't be to hard to listen to that beeping for about 3-4 minutes of gameplay
the advantage of SS-ESS combination over to the octo is, that we can start supersliding directly after leaving the magic store. it should be faster
hmm, I we won't go through any of the "dawn of new day" things, I think. we spend nearly every time in temples. pirate's fortress is a temple as well
edit: god damn it!
we need 6 explosives after ST for Hovering into tower and SS over to kid, but we leave ST with 4 bombs and 1 bombchu
I'll try to find a way to skip one bomb
our goal is the fastest time and I think, that it on't be to hard to listen to that beeping for about 3-4 minutes of gameplay
the advantage of SS-ESS combination over to the octo is, that we can start supersliding directly after leaving the magic store. it should be faster
hmm, I we won't go through any of the "dawn of new day" things, I think. we spend nearly every time in temples. pirate's fortress is a temple as well
I disagree. May I quote from a comment on Mukki's submission?
zdude255 wrote:
I also drop about a second in Ikana Canyon to pick up a fairy to replenish my health, otherwise the last fifteen minutes of my movie would have been ruined by annoying bleeping.THANK YOU!!!
See?
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!)
My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
our goal is the fastest time and I think, that it on't be to hard to listen to that beeping for about 3-4 minutes of gameplay
The first goal of a TAS is allways to be entertaining and it's not like it would cost us minutes. When we get the damage from the lizard, maybe 5 seconds?
hmm, I we won't go through any of the "dawn of new day" things, I think. we spend nearly every time in temples. pirate's fortress is a temple as well
But even those short thingys you get at night or when you are in a temple take time. The question is if it would warrant a song... well probably not, you are right.
edit: god damn it!
we need 6 explosives after ST for Hovering into tower and SS over to kid, but we leave ST with 4 bombs and 1 bombchu
I'll try to find a way to skip one bomb
You'll figure somthing out. :D
I'll continue commenting on the route:
MrGrunz wrote:
Get 4 Deku Sticks along the way to Woodfall Temple from pot and manipulating Dekus
So where are we using these now anyway? And is it sure that we can't use the broken stick instead?
our goal is the fastest time and I think, that it on't be to hard to listen to that beeping for about 3-4 minutes of gameplay
the advantage of SS-ESS combination over to the octo is, that we can start supersliding directly after leaving the magic store. it should be faster
hmm, I we won't go through any of the "dawn of new day" things, I think. we spend nearly every time in temples. pirate's fortress is a temple as well
I disagree. May I quote from a comment on Mukki's submission?
zdude255 wrote:
I also drop about a second in Ikana Canyon to pick up a fairy to replenish my health, otherwise the last fifteen minutes of my movie would have been ruined by annoying bleeping.THANK YOU!!!
See?
after havind a look at the route again, we're able to waste 2 bombs and one bombchu in woodfall temple, because we're going to buy directly after it 10 bombs and 20 bombchus
we should simply sidehop through the water, what is also the faster way here, and see, how much health we have afterwards. if we start to go into the poisoned water with 3 hearts, we won't have any beeping afterwards
if we have 1,5 hearts, we can simply use those 3 explosives to kill usself
won't be as fast, but it won't cost too much time
if the infinite deku stick strategy doesn't work, we use 2 sticks at wizrobe and 4 at garo's master ;)
