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Posted: 5/3/2009 8:41 AM
Post subject: How did you feel when you "found out"?
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Alright, it's flashback time. I think it was about 5 years ago. Like so many others, I saw Morimoto's playthrough of Super Mario Bros. 3. As far as I could tell, the movie was absolutely perfect in every way. Not only did he know exactly what to do, he performed everything such perfect style and grace that you could not help but wonder why you ever had so much trouble playing such an easy looking game. Of course, then it turned out to be "fake". Back then, people mistook his explanation of how he made the movie for an "admittance to cheating". (In general, based on how people feel, they often replace "acknowledgement" with "admittance".) Many people felt like they had the wool pulled over their eyes and were infuriated. Undoubtedly, a lot of you must have seen a TAS movie someplace else before finding out exactly how they were made. Maybe even without a disclaimer. How did you feel when you realized how it was made? Did you feel bad about it? Or maybe you knew it from the start? (You can stop reading here if the post is too long for you!) I actually remember being quite skeptical about Morimoto's SMB3 movie. The most important reasons being the fact he never wasted even a single frame when moving along the overworld and never got caught in one of the extra levels in world 8 (those are luck based, right?) Initially, I thought it was partly played by a bot, or maybe that he used indicators on his screen to tell him when exactly to jump or fire. Regardless, it didn't bother me too much. He made an amazing movie and did not ever claim that it was pure skill, so as far as I knew the use of special "tools" to aid his play might be something extremely common in some circles. I figured it might also be because he's Japanese; maybe all the communities and tutorials are in a language I don't understand. When I saw his Mega Man 2 movie, I went berserk and wanted nothing else but to speedrun the game myself and find out if there are other videos like this. That's how I eventually ended up here (long before there was even a forum, though).
Posted: 5/3/2009 8:53 AM
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Warp
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I knew what tool-assistance was from the very start, and I knew Morimoto's SMB3 run was tool-assisted. I never got surprised. I have also always had a positive attitude towards tool-assistance.
Posted: 5/3/2009 1:07 PM
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ThMrksman
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
When i first saw the SMB3 movie it was labelled on some website as 'guy beats SMB3 in 11 mins'. I had absolutely no idea. Funny thing is, i didn't feel cheated when i discovered that it was tool-assisted, mainly because i didnt find out until after i had seen the 0-star SM64 run and learnt all about tool assistance. Besides, i have since discovered that it takes a lot of skill to create movies like that, just different sorts of skills, such as patience, optimisation, and learning how to exploit glitches for their maximum benefit.
Posted: 5/3/2009 1:10 PM
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theenglishman
Active player (441)
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada
PSX TASer of 2013
The gap between me first seeing Morimoto's run and discovering TASvideos was pretty long. I remember thinking at the time that it simply looked insanely impressive. Of course this was before I was even into console speedrunning so I just took it at face value. When I "found out" as you'd say, I didn't feel cheated or anything. It just sounded...interesting :P
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
Posted: 5/3/2009 1:12 PM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
Who cares? I literally burst out laughing a few times when I saw morimoto's video. What really stands out is calling up the 1-up in Bowser's Fortress and then going through the wall with it - a bug completely well known yet somehow unexpected in the face of the general awesomeness of the whole video. How can you not love that?
Posted: 5/3/2009 4:17 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (241)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
At first I thought he was a nromal crazy japanese who does crazy stuff with their computers, but then at some point I thought what the heck, if non-japanese people can do it I'll give it a shot too!
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 5/3/2009 4:21 PM
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Sticky
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota
I was in awe when I saw it. Later found out that it was tool assisted. Thought "Damn, that sucks. Oh well, I don't care, that run was fucking awesome."
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Posted: 5/3/2009 4:24 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I wanted to find out how they did it. I think I found a link here through GameFAQs or something at the time and I was like "Whoa, they had more of these?! This is awesome!" and I joined. It was sometime around the end of this month five years ago. Then I ended up joining the forums when I realized there was one. I have to admit, this is one of the only sites that I go to that just hasn't lost its magic. I still love watching TASes as much as I did five years ago.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 5/3/2009 5:43 PM
Post subject: Re: How did you feel when you "found out"?
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eternaljwh
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
Omega wrote:
extra levels in world 8 (those are luck based, right?)
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that you just need to be fast enough to avoid capture. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly how I got to TASvideos. I think it might haVe been some link from m2k2 or scuk, so no surprise.
Posted: 5/3/2009 7:01 PM
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
A friend of mine sent me an avi of Morimoto's Rockman 2 run in late 2003, completely astounded. "Some guy from Japan recorded himself doing this. As if the Japanese typing 200 wpm on their phones wasn't soul-crushing enough." A few days later, he comes back with, "remember that Rockman 2 video? Apparently, he wasn't actually playing the game. He used some weird emulator that lets you program in button presses and plays back the input" accompanied with Famtasia and the .fmv file. Sometime after, Morimoto's first SMB3 publication started making its rounds on the internet, and the avi was passed to me by my aforementioned friend. I assumed it was similarly produced on Famtasia, and sure enough, he had procured the .fmv file by the next day. A few days later, he comes at me with, "there's apparently an entire website devoted to making those Famtasia movies" and links me here. Well, that is to say, on the old iki.fi domain. I educated myself by lurking around the site, and later the message board. I was, at first, sad to find the Rockman 2 movie wasn't played in realtime. After the initial disappointment, though, I only became more interested in seeing other games played with superhuman speed and accuracy, and the nesvideos front page became a daily visit for me.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 5/3/2009 7:58 PM
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Sum2k3
Joined: 3/27/2009
Posts: 17
Location: Thuringia, Germany
I don't know how I got to TASvideos or TAS in common. But I think it was something like a link from SDA. Nevertheless I know about what TAS means, I was surprised be the first videos I watched (very sure it was Super Metroid)
Posted: 5/3/2009 11:22 PM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
I remember seeing Morimorto's run on Ebaums or a similar video-type site, and then showing a bunch of people. Before the mass # of 1-ups in the World 8 levels, it seemed like a doable speedrun. After the mass 1-ups, I thought "Dear God, some Japanese guy has NO LIFE WHATSOEVER." I think finding out that it wasn't years of practice knowing exactly how to do that restored my faith in humanity ;) (Since the internet has a way of destroying communication, this was meant as tongue-in-cheek)
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 5/4/2009 3:36 PM
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Titus_Kwok
Joined: 4/30/2006
Posts: 480
Location: the secret cow level
I start using emulators back in like '96 or something so when I started seeing tool-assisted videos I assumed they involved emulation.
Posted: 5/4/2009 4:04 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1405)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
I remember the Morimoto's infamous Mario 3 movie being heavily discussed on GameFAQs back in 2004. I didn't really bother to watch, just watched everyone's reactions along the lines of "No way!" When I heard the rumblings that it may have been emulated, I did feel a little let down even though I hadn't watched it. But then someone said something like, "He didn't do this to show skill, he did this to provide a cool video," an argument I bought. Then I heard about the 99 lives. I had to watch. So I did. And I was impressed. I ended up here after trying to find it again.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 5/4/2009 4:19 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I think we did it about the same way, FW. I'm not sure I actually responded to the post or anything though, so I can't really say "Oh, did you see me there?! :D" I don't think you would remember if I even did, though. It's been a while.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 5/4/2009 4:25 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1405)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Perhaps if you frequented the Next Gen boards back then and had an easily recognizable username aside from "Rick," then maybe. But most likely not, since I didn't commit any names to memory. (not to mention I'm more of a lurker than a poster there, both then and now) In short: No, I don't remember you as of right now. Now, to reciprocate: Did you see me? I have the same username. Probably not, because of the afore mentioned "Lurker" status... But hey! Common background is always neat.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 5/4/2009 4:32 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I had the highly-recognizable username of Rick L. I know, everyone sees it. :p I dunno, I never really had any nicknames or anything like that growing up, so I didn't really take to one when I came online either. Hence, why I always use my own first name.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 5/4/2009 9:55 PM
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Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
My first TAS I saw was also that SMB3 run. However, the video description kind of said it was a TAS. I joined the bandwagon and youtube late. Being 17 is fuuuun.
Posted: 5/6/2009 5:17 AM
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (325)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
My friend GeminiSaint introduced me to TASes, which also got me into emulation in the first place. The first run he showed me was Dragon Warrior. My jaw hit the floor. Of course, he also explained to me exactly what was going on in the movie before I watched it, so I didn't get a huge let-down. Actually, I didn't really care. To me, the whole "theoretical limit" thing was the most awesome concept ever. Never saw the SMB3 movie... And even if I did, I probably assumed it was "Just some speedrun"... I always assumed those guys would learn the game too well.
Posted: 5/9/2009 2:40 AM
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sleeps
Joined: 2/12/2009
Posts: 4
It didn't really lower the level of enjoyment I got out of watching a speed run.
Posted: 5/9/2009 8:44 AM
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Mr._Kelly_R._Flewin
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
I remember where I was that fateful day and how I felt. Mom and Dad were in the kitchen grabbing some Milk and to bring out lunch as we all sat down and watched on.... and then it happened. No one could believe it was possible, and yet there we were, seeing it right before our eyes! It felt like absolute slow motion.. and the emotions were so raw and pained. They tried to cover my eyes so I couldn't see, but it was too late. I openly weeped as did my Mom, while Dad tried to remain stoic and strong for both of us.. but I know I saw a tear down his cheek that he rubbed away quickly. That day was one of the worst days of our lives, and the world's. A great horror and atrocity had been commited that would forever change how the world viewed anything ever again. A truly sad day. So yeah, I remember where I was that fateful day.. I mean only a short while it was all over the news.. everyone was talking about it. You couldn't go anywhere without people going over and over it. And all any of us could truly ask that day... Why?! WHY!! WHY DID IT HAVE TO HAPPEN! WHY DID J.F.K. HAVE TO BE ASSASSINATED! ..... Er wait a second.. you meant the Morimoto video, didn't you? Um.. yeah.. I felt a bit betrayed that someone was passing this around as a speedrun and there was no mention of an emulator and such being used. How could someone pass that off as legimate. But then soon after I found out about NesVideos and read as much as I could, and my anger simmered and then turned into appreciation of how things worked out. Still mad about there being no disclaimer back then.. but the site really changed my view around and now I am a happy supporter of the community. Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Posted: 5/9/2009 11:00 AM
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andymac
Experienced player (618)
Joined: 11/30/2008
Posts: 650
Location: a little city in the middle of nowhere
To tell you the truth, I never felt anything. I saw the smb3 video and thought "holy shit, that was awesome" and then watched spezzafer's run. I kinda got the whole TAS thing after it had a giant watermark over the opening scene saying "this is a tool assisted video" I didn't feel cheatd at all, because it was so amazing, and actually technically possible.
Measure once. Cut twice.
Posted: 5/9/2009 5:36 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
I'd actually independently thought of the concept of TASing the first time I played through Megaman 1. I was massively abusing savestates, and thought "Y'know, if someone could watch this without seeing me load and save states, they'd think I was actually halfway decent at this game." Turns out someone else did think of it, and actually followed through, to boot. :)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 5/12/2009 2:34 AM
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SwordlessLink
Active player (491)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Gameboy TAS of 2010 TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
The first TAS I saw was spezzafer's 16 star SM64 run, and I instantly knew that it wasn't "real". Nevertheless, since I'm not a tool, I enjoyed it for what it was.
Posted: 6/21/2009 12:11 AM
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Blublu
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Long before I saw my first TAS (Super Mario 3), this idea had been floating around in my head for a long time. I knew about emulators. I knew about savestates. And in my mind, I put those two together. I didn't have the idea of input files, but I did have the idea of "continuous play as far as the console is concerned". So it wasn't really hard idea to grasp at first, though I didn't really get the ramifications of it until I tried making a TAS myself (I failed miserably). Honestly, the first time I saw the Super Mario 3 video, I thought it was someone playing for real, because 1) I didn't know an emulator with this capability existed and 2) I wasn't familiar enough with Super Mario Bros. 3 physics to realize how utterly impossible this would be for a human to do. When I figured out how it was done, I was ecstatic. I wanted to see every game ever made done with the same method. This was so awesome it almost made my head explode.
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