Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I think this game might be interesting for a TAS. It is quite different from the published tetris games, as it has sonic drop, hold, SRS and so on. There are also quite a few different modes that might be interesting. I made a TAS of mission mode on easiest difficulty: AVI I think a submission of this game should include all difficulties, and a few other modes too... maybe a bit of playaround at the end might be fun as well.
Player (62)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
Looks cool, all 10 missions (level 1) cleared in under 10 seconds :D. Catch would be meh for speed tasing since you can't "instant drop", it would be interesting to make some interstting shapes and filling 4 by 4s with tight precision. Standard 200 lines and max score runs will be nuts. The 2 puzzle modes (touch and puzzle) is always fixed I think (not counting the mode where there are 5 levels of difficulty and you need to get the cage to the lowest level).
greenalink.blogspot.com
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
If you clear enough missions in marathon mode, the game ends and the credit screen appears. I don't really know if all modes with marathons work like that, but it's a nice end. Touch mode is not that ficed, I think you can arrange some wild combos. Puzzle is really fixed, so no. And excellent video, Baxter. I'd vote "yes" right now =p
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
OmegaWatcher wrote:
If you clear enough missions in marathon mode, the game ends and the credit screen appears. I don't really know if all modes with marathons work like that, but it's a nice end. Touch mode is not that ficed, I think you can arrange some wild combos. Puzzle is really fixed, so no. And excellent video, Baxter. I'd vote "yes" right now =p
Thx. As of now, touch mode isn't really an option... due to stylus recording. I think it would be incredibly hard to TAS also. I'd say the other modes should be enough.
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
OmegaWatcher wrote:
If you clear enough missions in marathon mode, the game ends and the credit screen appears. I don't really know if all modes with marathons work like that, but it's a nice end.
I just did some research on the mission marathon mode: - Clearing missions is the only way to gain points. There is a time limit for each mission, and its length depends on how high the level is. If you can't complete the mission within the time limit, you will get 4 garbage lines, if you complete it within the time limit, the four bottom lines are cleared. - After some testing, I think the scoring works like this: for each mission you clear, you get (1000+1000*level)*(1+%timeleft). This means, if you clear a mission at level 1 with no time left, you get 2000, with half of the time left, 3000, with all time left 4000. At level 20, you get 21000 for a cleared mission with no time left, and 42000 with all time left. - You can only select levels 1-5 at the start. After 10 cleared missions, you move on to level 6, 12 to level 7......... 38 to level 20. If you cleared 40 missions the game will stop, and show ending credits (these can be skipped by pressing start). If you return to the mode, you can select the levels you reached, which in this case would be levels 1-20. The game stops again after mission 40, showing credits, but since you can start at level 20 from the start, you will get a much higher score. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was extremely glad that this mission marathon mode wasn't infinite. If it was, getting the maximum score of 99.999.999 would take a TAS about 1.5 hours, completing 2500 mission :P Since it is finite and is only 40 missions, I think I'll do the marathon mode also. First a playaround movie that unlocks level 20. Then a movie that starts from level 20 in an attempt to get an ultimate highscore (which involves being as fast as possible... as completing missions fast gives more points). Including a versus game against a level 5 cpu is probably also fun, and maybe two push games (I read that it's possible to get a draw there, if all blocks are cleared, which sounds like fun). Then there is marathon mode and catch mode. Both have the same 'problem' as mission marathon, as you need to play through it once before being able to select level 20 from the start. I'll need to do some research on these modes first though, checking how the scoring works, and if catch is finite as mission marathon. Any suggestions or info are very welcome :)
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1365
Location: Minnesota
Mission mode becomes a bitch in later levels... so I am all for it! Also, if you decide to get level 20 unlocked, you need to have the level 20 music as the background for basically the whole game. I <3 that music :3'
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I think I'm done testing catch... the leveling up is pretty much the same as with mission marathon: - Make 4x4 grids to clear blocks, this will also increase your health if it isn't at its max and shoot beams of light. You will lose health if blocks reach the bottom, if you rotate into blocks, or if you hit a metroid. If your health is empty, it's game over. - Scoring works as follows (I think): For each block that sticks to your main block, you get 10 points. If you have a 4x4 block or bigger, you will get N*N*level*10 points. N is the amount of blocks that are part of 4x4 boxes. Note that it's quadratic. Using the light to kill a metroid also gives points: 1000*level. - Once again, you can only select levels 1-5 at the start. Similar to mission marathon, after clearing blocks twice, you move on to the next level. So after clearing 10 times, you are at level 6, and 38 times, you reach level 20. After clearing 40 times, the game ends, and you get the credits. When returning, you can pick level 1-20, and it's also finite, so once again 40 clearings. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This mode will take significantly longer. My slowed down test which got 40 clearings twice was about 18 minutes. A TAS should be a LOT faster though. Normally, you will get 10 seconds after you get a 4x4 grid, to add more blocks, but this can be skipped, by triggering the light instantly. A run which unlocks the level would probably do that often. If it is possible to make a 112 combo 40 times at level 20, the total score will be maxed out to 99.999.999. (For reference, at cyberscore, the record for biggest combo is 102) This is most definately possible, so I guess the goal would be to get that as fast as possible and then die. I'm curious to see how this mode will look when properly TASed... will it be interesting and short enough to see it cleared by forming 40 combo's twice? My guess is that it will be. Maybe, if all these modes are completed twice (once to unlock the levels, once for high score), should they be done in a more random order (as in, unlock levels, then do some other mode, then come back to set highscore)? =============================================== Edit: Oops, when making this post, I thought the combo score was maxed out at 999.999 (see charge at the bottom): It turns out however that more will be added to the score though, which should make it possible to get 99.999.999 and aim for fastest time getting that. I changed the above post accordingly. (Also note how nicely the above and bottom screen connect. It's as it is one big screen instead of two.)
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I was thinking a bit, and if it's played good enough, it should be possible to get the maximum score for catch in a single go, without having to unlock selecting level 20 first. I am however against this option, since it would be nearly impossible to even remotely optimize. It would mean you would get only 1/20th of the points at the start versus what you would get at the end... so at the start, it would probably be best to move on quickly... but when? I'm still in favor of one playthrough that unlocks level 20 quickly, and then one that gets the maximum score as fast as possible starting from level 20. I think this will be the most entertaining and just the best option. I guess a TAS would look something like this: - Complete all 5 mission time trials in record times. - Complete mission marathon to unlock level 20 (as there are no special goals, besides unlocking, this can be done in a playaround style). - Start mission marathon from level 20 to aim for the highest possible score. - Complete catch mode quickly to unlock level 20 (could have as a goal "complete all levels as fast as possible" which will give a very different movie than the highscore movie, as it uses big combo's). - Start catch mode from level 20 and try to max out the score as fast as possible. - Play push mode. - Play versus mode. - Complete 200 lines in regular marathon mode to unlock level 20. - Start regular marathon mode from level 20 to max out the score as fast as possible (this should only be included if it doesn't take too long). Then there is the mode where you start off from a certian height... level 20 would need to be unlocked here first also, if a certain highscore were to be made. Don't know if this should be included. Maybe a few playarounds here and there if something cool hasn't been included yet. Either way, should these modes be completed in a systematic order, as just listed, or for instance first unlock a level 20 at a mode, then do a different mode, and later come back to that mode starting from level 20 to get a highscore? Ideas?
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
I believe it would be nicer if you first unlock level 20, then later get the best score. Also, my suggestion about the video's order: 1-open all level 20 needed 2- all other modes that don't use level 20, kinda of a intermission 3- maximum score in level 20 4-999999 in marathon -OR- final marathon, credits, endgame Deeper in "brackets" (no reason) marks when I don't have any reason to order exacty in this position, can be shuffled with others (no reason) modes in the same bracket 1- a.Tetris marathon (if the movie end with that mode, should be nice starting with it) b. Mission (no reason) c. catch (no reason) 2- a. Push (no reason) b. time trials (marking the "middle" of the movie with tetris normal-style) c. Versus (no reason) 3- a. Catch (no reason, besides changing the order in comparison with 1-) b. Mission (no reason, besides changing the order in comparison with 1-) 4- Final Marathon
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I was actually thinking of starting off with the timetrial missions, and then getting level 20 to the marathon mission mode. I do agree with the regular marathon end the movie with (if that doesn't take too long). A more structured completion might enable people a little more to see what the actual objective is of what's currently being done. Doing them in a more random order might provide more variety though.... maybe subtitles, or at least a short text at the top of an avi could state what the goal is...
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I got the first mission time trial time down to 9.60 seconds. Something makes one a bit more confident about the time is that the missions aren't random, only the order is. For each level of difficulty you seem to get the same 10 missions, only the order is random. With random, I however don't mean particularly manipulatable for a TAS. It seems like only playing a game will change the order. Same is true for the blocks you get it seems, which can't really be manipulated either. This is quite different from NES tetris, but here you can hold one piece. With a bit of planning it's nearly as good as being able to manipulate pieces I'd say. Edit: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1003921956/Tetris_DS_Baxter.fm2 Here is a link to the movie. Just replace ".fm2" by ".dsm" after downloading to play the movie.
Skilled player (1410)
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First three time trial missions now done: AVI Times: Level 1: 9.60 Level 2: 11.10 Level 3: 10.95
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
Of course, it looks real nice =p
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Skilled player (1410)
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Posts: 1821
I've been doing some thinking. It will take way too long for a regular marathon game to max out the score to 99.999.999. You get 24000 for a back to back tetris, and 48000 for a triple T clear. Even with a low estimate, it will take a TAS over an hour to get the maximum score. Instead, level 20 can still be unlocked to play the line clear mode, which ends after 25 lines. The question here though is... what would be a good goal? Getting 25 lines as fast as possible? Getting a score as high as possible? I think both have their issues. Getting a score as high as possible would mean dropping unnecessary pieces at the end (I could imagine), as dropping pieces gives also points (also on level 20?). Either way, suggestions what the goal for a TAS of this mode could be are very welcome. Another problem I thought of was the marathon mission mode. Previously, I said that clearing missions as fast as possible would give the highest possible score... and this is still true... but there is no penalty for not clearing a mission. You have to COMPLETE 40 missions... which means that you can choose to not complete a mission that will take longer, and set up the next mission, in order to clear it with one block, and get the maximum amount of points. This would obviously be a lot less entertaining. The goal could therefore not be anymore "aims for highest score". But if it's just a fast completion of 40 missions, then there is no need to unlock level 20 and aim for score at all. What to do?
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
In my opinion, getting the best score in regular marathon would be more entertaining, and would fit better the whole "playaround" aspect of this run. About the marathon mission mode: If you're planning to do 2 plays, you could do both: The first one would be "as fast as possible", as it would take a lot of time to fail in a mission, as opposed to the all-level 20 marathon, although I don't know if it's really possible to prepare the screen in level 20.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
OmegaWatcher wrote:
In my opinion, getting the best score in regular marathon would be more entertaining, and would fit better the whole "playaround" aspect of this run.
Like I said, this would take over an hour at least, and is not an option. It is nothing really special either, if you consider quite a few people (with a lot of time) have done it in real time.
OmegaWatcher wrote:
About the marathon mission mode: If you're planning to do 2 plays, you could do both: The first one would be "as fast as possible", as it would take a lot of time to fail in a mission, as opposed to the all-level 20 marathon, although I don't know if it's really possible to prepare the screen in level 20.
I was planning to do 2 plays, yeah. First one goofing off, second one being fast AND going for a highscore. It seems though that the second goal isn't possible anymore due to how the game works. It could be done that the first one just aims for speed, and the second one goofs off, while getting the highest score possible... although that would be quite a task... forming patterns, setting the screen up for completing a mission instantly, and then there is the garbage you get from letting missions go by... I don't really know yet. Although if the first playthrough goes for speed, it might be a good idea to do something different first, since there were already 5 time trial mission modes completed just before at that point, which also aimed for speed. And about preparing the screen at level 20... even if the pieces dropped instantly, like at regular mode at level 20... it would be not much more difficult to prepare the screen. The fact however is, as I posted somewhere above, that the only difference the level makes at mission marathon mode is the time you get for completing a mission. It is not related at all to what missions you get, or how fast blocks are dropping.
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
Baxter wrote:
OmegaWatcher wrote:
In my opinion, getting the best score in regular marathon would be more entertaining, and would fit better the whole "playaround" aspect of this run.
Like I said, this would take over an over at least, and is not an option. It is nothing really special either, if you consider quite a few people (with a lot of time) have done it in real time.
Sorry, when I said "the best score", I'd mean "score as high as possible"
Baxter wrote:
the only difference the level makes at mission marathon mode is the time you get for completing a mission.
Exactly, that's why it's faster to fail in a mission and get ready to the next one
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I know you means "score as high as possible" for regular marathon. This score is 99.999.999, and a back to back triple T spin gives you 48.000, which means you need about 2000 of those. Lets say every two seconds it's possible to make a back to back triple T spin, then it would take 4000 seconds to get the maximum score, which is over an hour. This is too long, and wouldn't be interesting. Sorry, I made a typo before where you quoted me... it should be "over an hour". Btw, I finished the fouth time trial mission in 13.38
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Just completed the last mission time trial, here are all the times: Here is the movie http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/438175518/Tetris_DS_Baxter.fm2 (Change .fm2 to .dsm after downloading) I didn't include an avi, since I'm actually hoping someone will verify that the movie doesn't desync for someone other than me. I could now continue to unlock level 20 at mission marathon... but for more variety, I'll do that later, and unlock level 20 at catch mode first. These are the modes, goals, and the order I plan on doing in the TAS: - Mission time trial mode, level 1-5 - Catch mode, unlocking level 20 as fast as possible - Regular marathon mode, unlocking level 20 (should this be done as fast as possible?) - Push mode, (If it works, first game, get a draw) then beat level 5 as fast as possible - Mission marathon mode, unlocking level 20 while playing around - Catch mode, get the maximum score of 99.999.999 as fast as possible - Regular vs mode, beat level 5 as fast as possible - Regular line clear mode, get highest possible score as fast as possible - Mission marathon mode, get maximum possible score while playing around Edit: Might be good to also mention which modes won't be included. - Regular mission marathon, getting the maximum score of 99.999.999 (this would take, even a TAS, over an hour) - Puzzle mission mode, no strategy precision, speed, whatever needed. Nothing interesting or entertaining could be done - Touch puzzle mode, same as above, everything is preset Touch tower mode, speed doesn't influence score whatsoever, one can think as long as one likes. It would be about getting good randomness when starting the game, and doing a huge amout of puzzling to get combo's... this can be done regularly just as well. The randomness can't be easily manipulatd in a TAS, and I doubt someone in a TAS could score higher than regular scores. Stylus rerecording is also problematic.
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 38
Location: Idaho
That was really impressive. I don't really have much to add to that since I'm not really a Tetris player or anything, but... looked good to me. It didn't desync for me.
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Post subject: Last Mission Time Trail AVI
Joined: 8/23/2007
Posts: 29
Heres an AVI of the Tas with an fixed AVI index Its XviD rendered and with decent quality. Original Resolution. Tell me how you like it and stuff. I highly recomment Vlc http://rapidshare.com/files/231873812/last_mission_time_trial_tas_boxter.rar
Post subject: Re: Last Mission Time Trail AVI
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Smallmuck wrote:
http://rapidshare.com/files/231873812/last_mission_time_trial_tas_boxter.rar
Hmm, I wonder if I should have chosen an easier nickname :/ At any rate, I've started TASing Catch mode. It's not extremely straightforward, as you can only give input every 2 frames, which means you can only move every 4 frames (move, no unput, wait, no input, move...). This means the maximum speed in the TAS will be the same as when you hold down a certain direction for a long time, and not twice as fast as you might expect. If you speed up the blocks (which is done nearly always) the pieces drop slightly faster than you can move, so you have to position really well, and sometimes stop speeding up the blocks for a frame (not that this is noticable). In the end though, it looks really different from anything else, and still very speedy, and very entertaining... it will just take some time before I completed it, as 40 4x4 boxes are needed.
Joined: 8/23/2007
Posts: 29
Mimimi, i already had closed the forums an wasnt sure. :(
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Not really done yet with catch mode (in fact, not even 1/4th is done)... it's a bit frustrating to TAS sometimes. Anyway, here is what catch mode looks like TASed: AVI Let me know what you think (note that 40 of these 4x4 boxes need to be cleared, so this mode will last at least 2 minutes)
Lex
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Hmm. The video is a 0-byte file. I realize it may be out of date. Can you please re-upload it somewhere? Maybe my browser took a dump.