This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2265: p0rtal_0f_rain's NES Willow (U) in 1:10:50.88

Looks improvable.

By comparing with other RPG first submission, all I can say is that this one seem to have definitly enought good stuff to got a yes vote.

Huh? Out of curiosity, what other RPG are you referring to?!

By comparing with other RPG first submission, all I can say is that this one seem to have definitly enought good stuff to got a yes vote.

Maybe he's talking about your first draft?

OK! Ha, I was a little confused. I've played a lot of other RPG's lately so it's hard to keep track of everything sometimes. =))

Why did you recommend encoders?

Why did you recommend encoders?

I think it was a clever way to say he doesn't want me nor anyone else to post encodes in this thread. And I respect his decision.

I mentioned those encoders because I know they do an excellent job handling the A/V quality of most of the TAS'es I have seen for so many other games. Usually, any of those four would more likely be on the call of duty when processing, pubishing, encoding AVI's, ect. Plus, they know the encoder guidelines like the back of their hands so that AVI-making is accurate and precise. Back to topic... :)

Sadly, though, two of those four havn't actually published any run in the last 6 months (at least that I know of right off the top of my head).

For that my guess is ccfreak2k and Raiscan...?! I could be wrong, though. I can't always keep track of what everybody does within a time period. ;/

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/875465934/WillowSkipLongSwordProofOfConcept.fm2 Unless I'm missing something, the first sword isn't required. This is just a proof of concept, it's pretty terribly optimized. In particular the Snake Monster skips can probably be far better optimized, and just about all movement is good enough so it doesn't look completely sloppy, but I cut a lot of corners wrong, and if you walk diagonally into a corner it slows you down. This movie is approximately 3000 frames faster up to the gold statue.

Thanks again, but I am concentrating on trying to get this thing published. I mean, I may not work on this again for another few months - and if I do, myself and everyone else should already know how to perform all the existing techniques I listed above. Bisqwit: I replied to your P/M, if you didn't get it already... :)

There hasn't been a published game yet since #1291. We oughta get more variety put on this site, somehow... ...OK, why did you grind on monsters until your EXP read 22,610? All that level-grinding reminds me of the frustration I experienced when I was playing MapleStory a lot. Do you realize it takes an average gamer about 3 to 4 years to level up those characters to Lv. 200? Anyways, back on the subject. While it was stated obviously that the game wasn't being exactly faithful to the movie, it did follow some of the storyline from start to finish. There were some lag frames but those only happened during the screen blanking period (transition) I never expected turning into a blob partway through the game would get across the "mouth" trap would quash a game-breaking bug. There was this one time I played this game at a friend's house and I could never get past that damn thing. It's best to designate this movie is a "playaround-type", since the character always walks in this game, the screen takes a whole second to transition across each time p0rtal reaches the edges, and let's not forget about that level-grinding incident...

Playaround, play-through... I thought it would be the same thing. As I said in my description, it is mandatory for Willow to be on a minimum level of 13 (39,350 ex) to change Fin Raziel back to human and to get the ability to use the Magic cane effectively against Bavmorda. It's likely how the game was programmed to try to stay with the movie - but that proves why I was grinding. I needed to get prepared so I won't have trouble leveling up by the time I meet up with Gen. Kael. Perhaps Emptyeye over at SDA did the same thing by using a different method of grinding when he had this attempt, but for adjusting Willow's level to defeat Bavmorda, he does say the same thing...

1:01:11- To those who verified this run, I apologize for the next 22 minutes and 57 seconds. Everyone else will want to skip ahead to about 1:24:08 in the run; I'm doing nothing but building levels until then.

1:26:55- I need to be Level 13 to uncurse Fin Raziel. This also powers up the Cane, making it possible to defeat Bavmorda. Although, in a non-speedrunning context, it's fun to come here before reaching Level 13 and just turn her from animal to animal.

Source: http://speeddemosarchive.com/WillowNES.html

Sad update, but I chose to hold off doing further TAS projects and probably won't work on or optimize for a while. Life continues to put me under pressure and keep me busy, even if I do get on my computer more frequently. I'm not asking for a lot of Yes votes because I already know how twisted and boring some games get. It's that I find this game more decently entertaining than Scheherazade, especially with weeks of work that I placed into this game. For now, I'm grateful. :) Thanks so far!

Congratulations on completing a pretty decent full run through this game! But with that said, I have to agree with others that you don't need to pick up so many swords. There's no doubt many other things here and there that can tweak out some frames. A lot of the same problems happen in other action RPGs. The first one that comes to mind is Crystalis, which I spent a lot of time on and eventually gave up on. Compared to Willow it is shorter with more glitches, more variety, faster action and an awesome soundtrack. But for some reason it's considered a terrible game for TAS. I'll vote yes despite the improvability as I enjoyed watching this old favorite. I think that two years or so ago this would have been accepted right away. But the quality standards are so high now that this is probably destined for the grue.

I picked up 5 swords out of 8 (according to this page) - where 1 was given by Vohnkar, now that I can skip that in my next future attempt; 2 was taken from their designated chests - the battle sword that I used until I got to Eborsisk, and Devil Eye which I desperately needed for nonliving creatures and to level up; and 2 that was given as part of storyline, Kaiser from Airk (maybe I can avoid that, but if I do, I have to hit Eborsisk several more times for victory which isn't fun) and Wing from Adik. In my next future attempt, I guess you all can say there are 2 swords I am looking to avoid. It will indeed be the Long sword and the Kaiser sword if I'm lucky. That leaves me with the Battle, the Devil Eye, and the Wing swords. Hmmm... Do you guys think 3 is really enough?

If you haven't done this already, you should play through each boss battle with different swords to see how much difference it actually makes. Then play through the areas where you get the swords with and without getting them to see how long it takes to get. Compare the frame counts to get your answer. You don't do much fighting except to move enemies out of your way so I don't see any other differences. Seems to me that 3 is probably the right number of swords, but it could be 2. You need battle sword and devil eye for sure. Kaiser or wing will definitely speed up the final battles, but you should figure out the exact tradeoffs. I'd guess Kaiser is a better choice as wing would not be powered up before Eborsisk. Plus you need to talk to two people instead of one to get it powered up. But I forget if it's mandatory to talk to the Wing clan. That could tip things. I guess the main point is this: Don't just guess, do the math and figure it out. If it's close then you probably have to play it both ways to know for sure.

One thing that you'll also want to do to reduce the level grinding and over time of the run, Figure out how fast you can collect your 640 exp from the 8 ghosts when optimized, convert that into exp/frame, (including screen transitions and walking back and forth waiting for the ghosts to divide.) Whenever you can trade off frames for exp at a higher rate than the rate you found for the ghosts, you should kill that monster. Especially considering how slowly the ghosts divide. This has the potential to save minutes and make this run less tedious. And are you sure that the ghosts are the best place to level? What other places have you tested?

All I can think of was ancient statue faces that use the magic of Fireflor - where 2 of them appear upon random encounters and can be worth at least 90 ex. a piece. They travel slow, but for positioning they are hard to reach. What I did find out and am looking to test were the ghosts I encountered before taking the 2nd long stairway to Nockmaar. By that point, I should already have the Thunder spell on me. My new unofficial level-up strategy is to manipulate that area into random encounter. I might be going back-and-forth constantly using the Thunder spell to kill these ghosts off more quickly. And of course, I have to make sure I have at least 20 MP everytime I use this spell. This may not look entertaining, but I am sure I can cut down the time it takes to level up significantly. Last time, it only took 8 minutes and 20 seconds to level up. So if my new strategy works, I'm sure I can pull more frames. But again, it all comes down to strategy. And then another resort: review the SDA archive from EmptyEye and use Thunder (instead of Bombard) to get rid of the embedded monsters on the first stairway to Nockmaar, possibly along the way to the second stairway instead of hanging around the first. But that did take quite a bit of time from what I heard.

om, nom, nom... sweet!

Yes, Grue-bot, I know - you don't have to tell me. I chose to take down this submission under my own will instead of a judge rejecting it for me. I can already tell that even after more than 13 minutes of improvement, it can still use some improvement? You want improvement, boys, you got it. Within the next month or two, I'm willing to heed omnipotententity's advice and try to challenge this game by taking more damage-boosts. And thanks for the advice! :) I learned that the direction that the enemy was moving is the exact same direction Willow will move (in a faster way) upon taking damage. This will require more strategy and possibly another need to achieve level 13 as quick as possible. Until then, again, I thank you guys for watching this - I'm sorry that this wasn't enough for publication.