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Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I haven't received any Buster upgrades at this point. I will get one from the teacher (or something, I can't remember) and will buy one on the net so that both can pump direct damage. I could have bought one earlier by adding a fight or two and manipulating zenny instead of Shock chips but it feels like it would have been a waste of time. You want to see the WIP? I'll just post what I have on my external, since I haven't bothered to touch this in the last few weeks. Any progress since Numberman, which was just a conversation, was lost when my HD popped. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1356592553/Zurreco_MMBNtest.vbm Watching this makes me tingly on the inside. I think I will start working on this again in the near future...
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Active player (278)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
That was pretty good. You seem to understand this game very well. I only had a couple of ideas. Now when you exchanged chips from your folder and sack, did you test swapping the chips with each other versus double-tapping A on each chip to send it directly to the folder/sack and leave a hole behind? That seems as if it would save on the screen sliding back and forth those extra times, but maybe double-tapping isn't as fast as I think. (Is it not worth equipping the Cannon C yet just for NumberMan?) That last turn against NumberMan was a little unfortunate, but I understand that luck manipulation can only go so far. If you could get one more chip then, or have gotten that Attack power-up early, you might be able to shave off the final bit of rapid-firing. Now, I see you have far too little zenny to buy a PowerUp when you're helping Glyde, but maybe you can bookmark the @Dex page before the second day and get that PowerUp along the way. It looks like the earliest you can do that is right after the oven mission, and since you'll want to bookmark @Dex for a shortcut and examine the path to his /Dex link anyway, the only time wasted would be in running between houses. You have been luck-manipulating the contents of mystery data crystals before picking them up, right? And maybe their locations, too... So have you given any thought to the 60 chip quota yet? It's annoying how it works against your general strategy of getting a lot of the same kind of battle chip so you can use them all in one turn, but at least you don't have to equip any of the useless extra chips you pick up. Maybe you can just pick up any chips in the item crystals that aren't too far out of the way this time, and when you get to the memo-collecting mission, see how many you still need to find and plan them into earlier segments of the next run. (I think you could add an EarthQuake chip in the same code as some of your Cannons, for one thing.) The other thing to think about is that Higsby's shop opens at the beginning of the water outage, I believe, so if you're really crazy about luck manipulation, you could try to give yourself some of those three-squares-long swords or any other really good battle chips like that early on. (And I was sad we didn't hear the full loop of the song in the school network... Stupid cutting back to Lan all the time...)
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
1) The way I swap was the fastest I could manage, since there is a comparable lag time after removing a chip and swapping a chip. 2) The Cannon C chip was to manipulate a Zeta Cannon set up for Numberman but it didn't work out. However, it also didn't have a large impact on which chips were available to me at the start of the fight. I still want to go back and see if manually moving around chips will change what I get at the start of the fight. (God I hope that doesn't work...) 3) I'm drawing a blank on what you mean by bookmarking pages, but I'm pretty sure I have to run by that merchant again at some point either way. That and the PowerUp from Dad's email will both go to boosting attack, as it will boost your killing rate more efficiently than either of the other bonuses. 4) What 60-chip quota? Gah, it feels like I've forgotten everything after the Ice area. 5) The plan all along was to eventually dump the majority of my chips in to the shop and trade for epic sword chips. That way, everything but the last boss will be boiled down to getting good sword and cannon groupings.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
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Zurreco wrote:
I'm drawing a blank on what you mean by bookmarking pages, but I'm pretty sure I have to run by that merchant again at some point either way.
I'm talking about how when you visit a friend's PC, there's an item that's called @ followed by the friend's name. Then in the Internet, a certain Access point will take you into that PC if you have that item, and after you do that once, you can now jack into the friend's PC and take that new portal back into the Internet. Basically, it's a shortcut to wherever that Access pad is, if going through that PC doesn't take too long. The reason I started thinking about this is someone in the SpeedDemosArchive topic mentioned that @Dex would make a good shortcut, as Dex's PC map isn't too large, and it'll put you right in front of internet area 2 as well as shop 1. @Miyu and @Dad might make for good shortcuts too. By the way, you know what you need to do to get Dex to challenge you for his link to reach StoneMan, right? There are 3 steps to this you need to do in any order that aren't completely obvious: 1. Talk to the worker in the corner of the Metroline station and ask "What caused it?" This way, Lan and MegaMan will "know" they have to search the net for a certain virus. 2. Bump into the doorway to Internet-2 that /Dex accesses and get turned away. This lets MegaMan and Lan "know" that whatever virus they're searching for is in an area they can't reach. 3. Collect the Recovery50 L chip from Maylu's piano. Dex demands one of these before he'll Netbattle you. I noticed that if you lose, you have to go get another Recov50 L from the same place, and that's when I figured out that the chips in people's PCs respawn infinitely, but if you already have one of that kind, you can't take another one ("MegaMan couldn't decode the data"). One other thing to think about for this mission: If you haven't taken @Mayl by the time you get to the Government Complex, Mayl sends it to you in an e-mail instead. This is to avoid breaking a mission later, where you have to get into Mayl's piano, but her house is locked. Now, just taking @Mayl when it's right next to the Recov50L might be a little faster than checking another e-mail after Lan's dad's, but we should check to make sure.
Zurreco wrote:
What 60-chip quota? Gah, it feels like I've forgotten everything after the Ice area.
This is another thing I mentioned in an earlier post. Before you can receive one of the items to get into BombMan's lair, you have to have 60 kinds of battle chips in your library. Different chip codes of the same chip don't count extra, but chips that you've traded away do still count. (Think of it like the list of Pokemon you've owned in the Pokedex... but no "seen" list in this game.)
Zurreco wrote:
The plan all along was to eventually dump the majority of my chips in to the shop and trade for epic sword chips. That way, everything but the last boss will be boiled down to getting good sword and cannon groupings.
Okay, we'll see. Have you given any thought to forming GtsShoot to finish off most of the bosses after GutsMan? It does 500 damage, but there are some drawbacks:
    If I remember correctly, it only hits the first enemy in the row, so bosses that hide behind things will have to be unblocked first. Obviously, you need to be able to manipulate 3 certain chips onto the same turn. And the other 2 chips besides GutsMan are Dash attack G and MetGuard G, so you'll need to spend a little time finding them, but hopefully the Program Advance will be fast enough to make up for it, and you'll fill in 2 more library entries this way. MetGuard you'll probably never use on its own, though. Dash might be useful, but... For Dash G, I think you need to get S-rank, and if my research is correct, that means you would have to beat 2 of those birds simultaneously within the first 5 seconds without moving more than 2 spaces. Maybe GutsMan could help with this! Generally a Program Advance strategy calls for having extra chips of the kinds you need, so you have a greater likelihood of getting the kinds you need sooner, and so you have something to use on the same turn as the Program Advance. Would it really be worth taking extra Dashes or GutsMen? Maybe GutsMan3 later on? There was also that KnightSword G you can get by trading all 5 Escape chips, but then again, 4 different chips on the same turn? Not likely.
You could also think about using elemental chips on bosses of the weak element, like ElecSword or a Thunder bolt on IceMan, or maybe WoodyTower or WoodMan on ElecMan, but unfortunately I don't think their chip codes will match much of your arsenal. And now that I'm thinking about it, you know how ElecMan's first battle works, right? You have to let him heal himself 3 times to give up, and you have to do at least 50 points of damage (that is, lower him to 550 HP) to make him heal. So you might want to save a few quick, average-strength chips for that so he doesn't take extra time to heal, but I dunno. Let me know if there's anything else you're not sure about. (By the way, when I talked about beating multiple enemies simultaneously for a higher ranking, that doesn't mean just finishing them off with the same attack. It means they have to start exploding within a few frames of each other, even if they were beaten by different attacks. I'll have to check exactly how many frames sometime...) Edit (again): Uh oh, I think a noticed a problem right at the beginning. Why didn't you skip the pointer arrows that pop up on the tutorials? I was able to get rid of them right away by tapping A, but you left them pointing the full duration.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
LSK
Joined: 4/17/2006
Posts: 159
I get the feeling that someone's going to want to build a deck-ordering bot sooner rather than later.
Active player (278)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Yeah, that might be a good idea. If you want to use the chip trader at all, it would also be nice to see how it's coded to figure out exactly what it's able to give you. For example, I read in one guide that you can only win a Navi chip of a kind you already own (therefore, don't trade away your Roll chips!). Now, I haven't been able to disprove that yet, so it may be true, but we ought to know for sure so no one wastes their time trying to get a chip that the machine's not programmed to give. Another guide listed probabilities of the number of stars of the chips you can win in each machine, which makes me think they looked at a disassembly, but it didn't say if any chips were restricted from being awarded. EDIT: I just confirmed that you can win the Poison Anubis and Muramasa Blade chips from the 10-chip trader even if you haven't beaten the game. Who knows if Anubis might speed up a long battle?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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Well, according to my calculations, getting @Mayl in the e-mail (read after Dad's) is 55 frames faster than getting it in the piano. That's taking into account both reading the message and getting the beeper notice about it. So just leave @Mayl behind when you're grabbing Recov50L, then. Another interesting fact I discovered in the process is that you can avoid receiving Dex's "Challenge" e-mail. If you complete steps 2 and/or 3 (from my earlier post) last by logging onto the Net via Dex's PC, then you can fight GutsMan before stepping outside to find that Dex has sent you a message. If you beat GutsMan without leaving Dex's house, then you'll never get that message! I don't think this is a timesaver, though, since you'd want to bump into the door to Internet-2 on the same trip where you bookmark @Dex. Now we should find out whether to take a Metroline ticket for the next destination before leaving the station or after re-entering! :P I know that the endings of some missions remove your Metroline ticket from your inventory, possibly to avoid having a ticket to the town you're already in when you get "warped" back to Lan's bedroom, so in those cases taking a ticket early would do no good.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
As this game is up for discussion again, I might as well post my MMBN 2 WIP that I made about a year ago. I don't really know this game that well, so I just made it at optimal as I could. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1389337888/0468%20-%20Megaman%20Battle%20Network%202%20(U).vbm Again, this is probably far from optimal. It was just something I made when I was bored.
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Joined: 3/3/2007
Posts: 53
I once tried to TAS MMBN2 and got roughly 5h:05m. This was of course not optimal. It used LifeSword PA's until I had access to the Gater PA chips.
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Wow, 5 hours? Maybe these games take longer than I thought. It's just that Zurreco beat the first 2 bosses of MMBN1 in under 10 minutes, and there are what, 14 boss battles altogether? Judging by that, I didn't think the game would take more than an hour and a half. But maybe the first game is different like that.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 3/3/2007
Posts: 53
Most time gets eaten away by the Freezeman Scenario. You need to go back and forward between the Doc and Netopia 3 four time, IIRC. Not to mention the damn "Licences" that you must get to advance the game and the money for the LifeSword/Gater chips. You could say that the scenarios of the later bosses (not counting Airman and Quickman) are 2-3x longer than that of MMBN1. But I think that with enough "Chip Trader" manipulation for good chips, that you can get my time maybe down by 45 mintues. Maybe even 4hours. The game only has 11 bosses IIRC and some optional ones: Airman, Quickman, Cutman, Shadowman, Thunderman, Protoman, Knightman, Freezeman, Fake Bass, Gospel. With Gutsman, Toadman, Heatman & WWW area (Secret Area) navis as optional.
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Now that the site's back up, I think I'll share some more discoveries about Battle Network 1. It turns out that the "double-tapping" method of sending battle chips between the Folder and the Sack is faster than swapping one pair at a time, except of course for the last chip of the Folder/first chip of the Sack. Here's a demonstration, which I found to save 60 frames over how Zurreco did it: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/266391139/swapchip.vbm I found that the chip trader can give you BassForte chips, but I already had that chip before it gave me any, so it may be fulfilling the rule about only getting Navi chips you already have. Does this rule also apply to LifeDreamAura, since you're supposed to win it from ForteBass after you get all the other chips? If someone can write a Lua script to retry the chip trader machines on different frames to see what comes out, we may be able to solve more mysteries about them. The annoying thing about the traders is that the chip you receive is determined before you choose the chips to put in, so you have to vary the frame on which you say Yes to using the machines in the first place and then mash A a dozen times per try. When it comes to collecting random data crystals, the first two areas of the Internet work differently than the rest. In area 1, there are eight places where an item crystal could be, but you will only find two items there each time you enter the Net. The game picks a random 2 places out of the 8 possible places to set the items when you use the portal in a PC, but the actual contents of the items aren't determined until you actually pick them up, so once you've luck-manipulated the desired positions, you don't need to do any more manipulation until you reach the crystal. Area 2 works the same way, except it always has 4 items placed in 4 out of 16 possible positions. So if you need some of the random items in the first two zones, try your best to get them into places that are along the path you're taking. Then for all zones, luck-manipulate to get the chip you need out of the random chips possible in that area, or the highest amount of money! For example, Zurreco's run gets 200Z in a random crystal, but it could have been manipulated to give 1000Z. The rest of the sections of the Internet have 4 random items in the same 4 places every time, except for area 16, which has 8 random items. Yeah, powers of two are king! But what's really nice is that random item crystals are replenished every time you enter the Net from a PC, not just the one you jacked into, so you can make all the random items in all the zones reappear simply by popping in and out of an Access pad. This makes it easy to collect items repeatedly in the first few areas. Unfortunately, even though it would be nice to take some EarthQuake C and KnightSword C chips from area 16, I think it would waste too much time; in addition to the long detour, I recall there's a gate that requires you to win several battle chips in order to pass, and I don't think all those extra battles would be compensated for by shorter boss battles. I think I may have stumbled onto how the virus machine in Dr. Hikari's computer works. I decided to fight a few hundred battles with it and write down all the enemies I saw. When I finished my list, I checked it against the enemy lists of other areas to see which ones they had in common. (I used Mega Boy's Perfect Navigation Guide, which is a great resource with its tables pulled from the official Japanese guidebook, despite a few errors I spotted.) I noticed that my list was a union of enemies found in the five main "dungeons": oven, school, waterworks, traffic, and power plant. So I'm starting to think that the enemies available to the virus machine are based on which dungeons you've completed, or which enemies you fought in those dungeons. But for some reason, the virus machine gave me those "altered programs" that use ElecRingZapCircle very rarely, and I don't think I saw any of the red cannons at all, even though the guide said there were some in the main dungeons. So I'm not completely sure how it works, and I'll try to figure out more on my next playthrough. The virus machine probably won't be a major help unless those enemies in the main dungeons are too tough to fight at first and you want to save some for later. I'm also going to chart out exactly what the improvements are from the Buster-PowerUps and SiteHub.bat. I've already found that having all the PowerUps decreases your "flinch" time slightly from having no PowerUps, but Hub.bat makes it so you don't flinch at all from a hit. Hub.bat also makes it so that you can shoot just as fast across five empty spaces as you do point-blank, but it didn't improve charge-up time over what it was when my Charge level was just 5 without it. I did a lot of this testing against ProtoBluesManV3, and I noticed that it's possible to shoot him successfully just as he finishes moving to a new space on the back column. Do it early enough, and he won't even put up his shield! I don't know if this has anything to do with the SkullMan attack glitch, but it's something to keep in mind. As I replay the game, I may also jot down other important facts, like what amount of damage makes each boss flinch. So please let me know if there's anything else you'd like me to try to find. And if anyone cares, money maxes out at 999999Z, and time maxes out at 99:59. I really expected more digits than that...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Meh. My run is just a test run. It sounds like you are more involved than I am, but I still plan on finishing my test run this summer.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
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Great! I'm glad you're still interested. Don't feel bad that you didn't get everything perfect the first time. Planning will be complicated.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Player (208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I did a bit of fiddling today. I gave Bag my chip trader lua script and excel spreadsheet that can speed through and analyze chip dispensing (not very effective at the moment, but it works for seeing possibilities. If anyone is interested in that PM me. There are only a couple regular chips it seems you cannot get from the 3 chip trader. You can only get Navi chips you already possess. Sometimes you have to physically open your folder to refresh these: 02019009 - first chip in folder library ID (Cannon = 1) 0201900a - first chip in folder Chip Code (A=0 B=1) I found values to remove random encounters. When these values are a multiple of 64 (it seems) a battle can possibly occur. Setting them to something arbitrary, e.g. 7, will remove random encounters. 020003f4 - step related encounter trigger 02006448 - step related encounter trigger
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
All you would use the chip trader for is swords, either strong, short range or long range. That being said, are those included in the "couple regular chips" exclusion? Are manipulation rates observable/manageable?
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Active player (278)
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Posts: 5712
I think you can get all the swords from the 3-chip trader, but KnightSword and HeroPaladinSword are difficult because of their high star ratings. According to the Perfect Navigation Guide, the 3-chip machine is heavily slanted towards 1-star chips, while the 10-chip machine is weighted most toward 2-star chips, although it also beefs up the probabilities of finding 3-, 4-, and 5-star chips a little over what the 3-chip machine offers. When I used it, though, it felt as if I had a somewhat easier time finding 5-star chips than 4-star chips, strangely enough. Have you thought about trading for chips other than swords? Think of chips like Cyclone, which has a damage rating of 30, but strikes up to 8 times in a row, so you could do 240 points to a slow boss without making him flinch. You would need a Steal to use that against bosses that sit in the back, though, but it's one strategy to consider. Chips like Quake3, BigWave, and GaiaHammer3 can do major damage to multiple enemies, which would be helpful not only for high busting levels in regular battles but also against the gatekeepers of net area 5, the ice bears in the waterworks, and MagicMan when he whips out his helpers. Maybe you could even drop in a Lockon3 or Anubis to drain a well-protected boss while you wait for more attack chips. Then there are elemental considerations for IceMan, ElecMan, and BombMan. And sure, I ought to play around with all the chips more before I make these proposals, but I'm just saying that you shouldn't rule anything out too early.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Player (208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Bag is running my chip trader analyzing script all day. He seemed pretty confident that the RNG that affects the chip received is highly dependent on what frame the chip trader is accessed. He said going in and out of buildings alters the 'frame access' forward by about 3. So unfortunately this appears to suggest that the only real way to get chips we want is to wait however many frames the game requires. 1 frame = 1 'cycle' forward for a new chip. Anyway, I've been looking into chips received in battle. 02004910 = 1st Chip Received in Battle 02004911 = 2nd Chip Received in Battle 0200492D = 30th Chip Received in Battle If Chip 3 is selected, Chips 4-30 shift up one address to reflect the position they move into. Values in these addresses: 0 = Chip in Folder Position 0 (First position) 1 = Chip in Folder Position 1 (Second position) 29 = Chip in Folder Position 29 (Last position) If getting chips in battle is dependent on the particular frame the battle is accessed, and the folder positions are directly assigned to this battle, this will allow us to move chips around in the folder to get EXACTLY the chips we want. I'd say there is currently about a 50% chance of this being true. I'm going to write a script to output chips received upon entering a fight on consecutive frames. If my speculations are true, this run will be pretty sick. =D EDIT: Confirmed. Ensue folder stacking. This run is going to be quite broken.
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
I hope to see that :P I really liked Megaman Battle Network. Hope to see some kind of WIP soon :)
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
ZeXr0 wrote:
I hope to see that :P I really liked Megaman Battle Network. Hope to see some kind of WIP soon :)
Read the thread, then.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
Zurreco wrote:
ZeXr0 wrote:
I hope to see that :P I really liked Megaman Battle Network. Hope to see some kind of WIP soon :)
Read the thread, then.
When things are too obvious, I have some difficulty spotting them :P
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I'll be sure to start hiding my links as apostrophes in the middle of possessive statements.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Active player (278)
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Hey, I forgot to correct my speculation about the chip traders from earlier. I ran the script that tries the machines on each frame for a really long time so I could find out more accurate probabilities for them. It turns out that the 3-chip trader will not give out 5-star chips at all, so don't expect any HeroSwrds from it. Its priority goes 1 star, then 2 stars, then 3 stars, then 4 stars, with 1-star being very overrepresented and 4-stars extremely rare. The 10-chip trader's priority goes 2 stars, then 3 stars, then 5 stars, then 4 stars, then 1 star, although you'll tend to get more of any particular kind of 5-star chip than of a 3-star because there are so many more kinds of 3-star chips. So it would seem that chip codes are weighted equally, as Navi chips are 1/5th as common as a regular chip of the same star value. Now, these "probabilities" are based on running the script that tries the trader machine on each successive frame and tabulating the results. If you were playing normally, these would be only probabilities; but using the table, you can find exactly how long you would need to wait before trying the machine would give you a particular chip. So the game seems to be running through a certain sequence of chips to dispense that never gets re-randomized as far as I can tell. I don't know yet if it ever repeats, and I haven't found out the effects of having different Navi chips (to see how it's affected by the "no Navi chips you don't already have" rule), but I can run around the game's world a bunch, come back to the shop, use savestates to try getting chips on a few consecutive frames, and find that pattern in the list the script made, which still predicts what chips would come before or after those frames I tried. Certain actions like jacking-in, battling, and viewing the submenus will freeze the sequence so you end up jumping into it later than the list says next time, while other things like area transitions can speed it up a little so you get ahead in the list. Resetting the system and reloading the game starts a new sequence, but for me it was always the same sequence, even when I tried a couple different saves that were both in front of the trader machine. If there is no other way to change the sequence, then saving, resetting, and reloading the game file a certain amount of time in advance of visiting the store could be a timesaver when waiting for a certain chip at that point would have taken too long. But I need to study it some more first.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
Nice research, BoMF. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of this TAS.
Voted NO for NO reason
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We're trying to figure out a better strategy for StoneMan now. He's the last boss you fight before the chip shop opens, so the selection of battle chips is pretty limited at the time. He's also the first boss we can use GutsShoot on, which takes off a whopping 500 HP, but since StoneMan has 600 HP, some other attack is needed to make up the remaining 100, and it has to be in G code to be used on the same turn as GutsShoot. Two more Dashes would do the trick, but winning chips you already have in battles is a big waste of time when they won't even contribute to the 60-chip minimum you need in your library later on. KirkQQ thinks it would be a good idea to jack into Dex's GameCube and fight for a HiCannon G, which would take off 80 HP. I have my doubts about that, as the only enemy grouping with HiCannon I could find in there also contained Dash and SonicWave, and jacking in and out adds almost 10 seconds, but at least it would add HiCannon to the library. The other Program Advances you can form at this point are Zeta-Spread, Zeta-Cannon1 (and perhaps Zeta-Cannon2 and Zeta-Ratton1 if you had time to fight extra enemies), Beta-Sword, and Sigma-Sword. I found that while the Shotgun/Spreader series chips start off a little faster than Cannons, they keep you frozen in place a lot longer after firing. So I was able to shoot StoneMan only 5 times with Zeta-Spread for a total of 150, but 9 times with Zeta-Cannon1 for a total of 360. But with Zeta-Cannon, the only chips you could add at the same time are two more Cannons, so that still doesn't come close enough to 600 in one turn. With Beta-Sword and Sigma-Sword, you need to be able to use two AreaSteals first so that the Swords and WideSwords in the combo aren't wasted, but the Steal A means that you can't use everything on the same turn. This strategy may come in handier for NumberMan, where I don't see a one-turn win happening: We can use our A code chips on the first turn, then S code chips on the second turn. But for StoneMan, I think I might resort to just shooting him 34 times with the buster at attack level 3, then activating the GutsShoot, unless someone thinks of something better. (Even at the lowest buster speed, you can get that many shots in just before the custom gauge finishes filling, so that's technically a one-turn victory.) --------------------------------- Hey, I just got an in-game Delete Time of 18.00 seconds on NumberMan! He started exploding just as the gauge finished filling the second time. So now I definitely think we should stick with the Steal A, Cannon A, Cannon A, Quake1 A; Steal S, Sword S, Sword S, Sword S, WideSwrd S set that I used then. I got a Busting Level of 10, though, because the second Steal only stole one square as the bomb balls occupied the others, so NumberMan's time bomb landed on top of MegaMan. But it didn't slow anything down, since I got the next sword slash in just as that happened, and busting level doesn't affect your prize on the first two forms of a boss anyway. Getting the folder ready for NumberMan is a little tricky because you have to enter the passcode afterward, which secretly increments every frame, even when you're looking at the folder. That's right, you can just look at the last two digits of the frame count to find out the passcode. It runs from 00 to 99 in a loop all the time until you choose to enter it, although it does seem to get delayed by 1 when you go to the folder. So by waiting enough frames, you can make the passcode quicker to enter and end up saving a little time, as it costs 8 frames each time you have to turn a digit again. ElecMan might also pose a problem like this, since I don't think you get to access your folder again before ProtoMan. --------------------------------- 5 swords against GutsMan looks like the quickest way to win, although you have to be able to keep him at the front at all times, so you may have to change the frame you enter the battle to help make him go to the front right away, which changes the order the chips come in... Cannons would be faster because they don't make him flinch, but my Z-Canon1 battle was about 3 seconds slower because of the time spent watching the chip names combine. Oh yeah, and if my calculations are correct, then it's a little faster to get the Recov50 L from Mayl's house on the way from the school to the subway, rather than the day before. And if you want to trade for DynaWave R, then you should do that right after. --------------------------------- Okay, this is interesting... While I was trying to figure out what affects the sequences of chips from the traders, I got an ElecMan3 E chip from the 10-chip trader--but I'm at the point in the game where the chip shop just opened. I won't even get to fight ElecMan for another two days of story. The only sort of cheat I had used before then was the Lua script that prevents random encounters, so unless that had some kind of lingering side effect, then maybe there really isn't a rule against getting Navi chips you don't already have. (Now ElecMan will certainly make the WaterWorks' opponents quicker to beat if we can get that sequence again in the final run.) After some more playing around, it's starting to seem as if the entries in the Data Library are what can alter the sequence of chips coming out of the trader machines. It seems a little strange that the random number generator would do some kind of check on the library if it turns out that there aren't any chips restricted from being dispensed, but I'm not that sure what's going on. Maybe it's trying to weight the results toward or away from chips you already have, or maybe it's just plucking values from the saved data to start the pseudorandom sequence when I start the game.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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