Posted: 1/12/2005 12:05 PM
Post subject: What do you prefer no hit or speed run?
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Valagard
Former player
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 38
I have been tinkering with some games, but I want to know what people prefer, a no death no hit speed run, or just runs that complete the game as fast as possible? The webmasters like the latter because the faster you beat the game the smaller the file thats produced, but what do you all think?
Posted: 1/12/2005 12:08 PM
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ventuz
He/Him
Player (126)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
For me, I'm all for fastest possible, unless no-hit helps increase overall entertaiming.
Posted: 1/12/2005 1:28 PM
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FlowingMindspin
He/Him
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 16
I prefer speed runs. It's fun to see how people can sparingly take hits and save time while doing it.
Posted: 1/12/2005 1:31 PM
(Edited: 1/12/2005 2:42 PM)
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
For me, it's all about aesthetics. If taking damage looks bad, it shouldn't be used. For example: in Mega Man games, when Mega Man hits enemies, he falls backwards and gets stunned and a damage-animation can be seen. I would not like to see this in a run. However, in Bisqwit's Rockman video, he avoids the animation with a pause trick, making it look smooth. Even if there isn't an awesome glitch involved, I sometimes find taking damage acceptable: Many games allow the player simply to walk through enemies with no other effect than losing health and perhaps making the character blink. Just judge for yourself.
Posted: 1/12/2005 2:25 PM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Like Bisqwit said in the Rockman submission, "Health is a resource. Use it."
Posted: 1/12/2005 3:01 PM
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julianch
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 143
Location: Valencia, Spain
Omega wrote:
Like Bisqwit said in the Rockman submission, "Health is a resource. Use it."
i agree.
I am a Mega Man fan that hates Megaman X8.
Posted: 1/12/2005 3:11 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (247)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
if the damage makes obviously noticeable time saving, yes if the damage makes the watcher think "duh he took damage, and i dont see why, must be a mistake" then no.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 1/12/2005 4:55 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Fast as possible.
Posted: 1/12/2005 9:36 PM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Agreed. Castlevania and all the mega man games handle taking damage well- it is obvious that it speeds up the game by a considerable margin, and looks cool. But I think it depends on the game. Do you have a specific one in mind?
Posted: 1/12/2005 9:40 PM
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Valagard
Former player
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 38
None come to mind right away, was just thinking of the possibilities, did a sparkster run I was thinking of maybe another SNES run
Posted: 1/12/2005 9:42 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (247)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
on my castle of illusion run, theres only one place that needs taking damage, i decided to wait a few seconds and publish it as a non damage run rather than taking damage only at that place, i think it would look ugly theres a difference between taking damage and being thrown at a higher plataform and taking damage so you dont have to wait for an enemy to pass by.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 1/13/2005 9:07 PM
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-ziplock-
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
It should be taken when it's appropriate. For example, the Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden videos show damage pushing the character to a higher level. Nobody would argue that it's necessary. Sometimes it's a bit more subtle, like in Metroid where jumping is so slow it's faster to actually slam into an enemy in certain areas. The same goes for the missed shot rule, which is mostly never, but observe the submission for Tom Sawyer - he had to throw the rocks to get the pirate to jump over his head. It's an appropriate missed shot. But what it all boils down to is whatever's fastest without looking stupid. The viewer should never ask himself why the author got hit in a certain spot.
Posted: 1/13/2005 9:27 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
There's one part of the Castlevania 4 run where he gets hit 2 or 3 times in a row walking left through some enemies... I knew it was probably the fastest way through there or it wouldn't have gone into the movie, but it still looked pretty sloppy to me even though I knew it was done purposely.
Posted: 1/14/2005 12:50 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
Knowing how to properly use hits to save time is a skill, and is in most cases riskier than avoiding the enemy. It is like sacrificing your valuable pieces in a chess game to gain a decisive advantage; hence, two points on your lifebar is worth giving up to save 2 seconds of time. Many people associate "getting hit" with "making a mistake" which is a mistake on its own.
Posted: 1/14/2005 2:13 AM
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Itstoearly
Joined: 8/10/2004
Posts: 173
Location: Bethel, VT
Remember, these movies are supposed to be as entertaining as possible: it just so happens that speed tends to make the movies more entertaining. But viewers like watching a movie, see you get hit, think you screwed up, but then suddenly realize that you did it on purpose and you just took a shortcut (castlevania, as many others have pointed out, is a great example). It adds to the entertainment of the movie.
Posted: 1/14/2005 4:54 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1417)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Here's a question. In the run I am working on, I plan on taking some very delibrate but useless hits, some to show off some graphical tricks and one to die for the sake of doing something "different". Would these be acceptable?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 1/14/2005 6:08 AM
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-ziplock-
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
Well, you're the artist. And that's basically what it comes down to with this whole poll. If you take damage for a reason (and there's never a time you should take damage for no reason), you can explain that reason and it will be looked at accordingly. It's not really fair to judge a general damage/no-damage thing - it depends on the game and the situation.
Posted: 1/16/2005 6:55 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I like damage better when the character gets extra movement out of it. Like in Super Metroid, where Samus gets knocked way back really fast whenever she gets hit. But in the latest Astyanax movie, it doesn't look so good because he's always bumping into things without it noticeably helping, so it just looks like the player can't fight.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 1/19/2005 2:15 AM
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shad0wzer0
Joined: 1/18/2005
Posts: 16
It depends on what goal has been set. whether its 100%, speed completion, speed completion with no dmg, etc. Personally, its more impressive to see someone kill a boss with 0 health left, but thats just IMO. If you both have the same time but one of you got no hits, then that one is more impressive.
.... wow.