I got bored and made this:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/890687676/s2AllEmeralds.gmv
6 emeralds in EHZ, could've gotten all 7 but there was too much backtracking to do since the last 2 checkpoints are too close together
it's not optimized at all, just a couple of hours of work.
I can't help but wonder if Super Sonic is ultimately faster than Sonic when it comes to TAS conditions. It would take a bit of planning to collect 50 rings as fast as possible and then there is the whole factor of experimenting new routes due to the newfound speed and invincibility
I do believe time can be saved, there are just enough goal posts to collect all emeralds in EHZ, then you can proceed to play the game as normal with super sonic, having that speed advantage already in the second stage of the game should ultimately make up for the time spent in the first.
It costs, what, a minute at least per emerald collected? And that's just counting the bonus stages, not the time spent collecting rings so that the stages can be accessed. I find it hard to believe that you could make up seven minutes' time in the rest of the levels, considering that many of them last less than 30 seconds as-is.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
It's a question of wether you can make up for the time lost by collecting all emeralds.
You can't, but that's the point of games having a different category for 100% runs.
The real question is discounting the time spent in special stages, how much faster will super sonic be?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
ah yeah I hadn't realized the current run was so optimized already.
so a 100% run wouldn't be faster than the current TAS, I still think it'd be interesting to watch either way.
An interesting thing to note is - When playing WITH tails, it increases the required RINGS to proceed in the extra stage, causing you to loose time versus a sonic run. The trade-off is you could probably manage to collect off-route rings with Tails and still keep up speed, you can also get the Score Tally to go by faster (By making sure both characters share the ring count, leaving less points to count down)
I thought I'd give some route planning a try, managed to optimize the in-stage times a little but lost all of those extra frames by the end of the special stage. Think of it what you will.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/851809690/S2-AllEmeralds.gmv
An interesting thing to note is - When playing WITH tails, it increases the required RINGS to proceed in the extra stage, causing you to loose time versus a sonic run.
The special stages last a fixed amount of time; needing more rings wouldn't change the length.
Rather than aiming to get all rings that come, you should also aim to get the exact amount required for the emerald. Say if the amount needed was 140, then aim for 70 for each of Sonic and Tails, should give you a much faster ring count-up at the end of the stage.
Rather than aiming to get all rings that come, you should also aim to get the exact amount required for the emerald. Say if the amount needed was 140, then aim for 70 for each of Sonic and Tails, should give you a much faster ring count-up at the end of the stage.
I was thinking that but then personally thought it'd be more entertaining to see them collect ALL of them if possible (I don't believe this -is- possible on stage 7) but I believe I may go back and just get, as you said, the required amount.
Suppose I've accidentally picked up this one heh.
Would it be more entertaining to catch and miss a few along the way then manage to -just- collect the right amount before the checkpoint, or collect all until the required amount and then dodge the remainder?
Rather than aiming to get all rings that come, you should also aim to get the exact amount required for the emerald. Say if the amount needed was 140, then aim for 70 for each of Sonic and Tails, should give you a much faster ring count-up at the end of the stage.
I was thinking that but then personally thought it'd be more entertaining to see them collect ALL of them if possible (I don't believe this -is- possible on stage 7) but I believe I may go back and just get, as you said, the required amount.
Suppose I've accidentally picked up this one heh.
Would it be more entertaining to catch and miss a few along the way then manage to -just- collect the right amount before the checkpoint, or collect all until the required amount and then dodge the remainder?
Do both, but personally I would just do whatever is faster for that act.
Rather than aiming to get all rings that come, you should also aim to get the exact amount required for the emerald. Say if the amount needed was 140, then aim for 70 for each of Sonic and Tails, should give you a much faster ring count-up at the end of the stage.
I was thinking that but then personally thought it'd be more entertaining to see them collect ALL of them if possible (I don't believe this -is- possible on stage 7) but I believe I may go back and just get, as you said, the required amount.
Suppose I've accidentally picked up this one heh.
Would it be more entertaining to catch and miss a few along the way then manage to -just- collect the right amount before the checkpoint, or collect all until the required amount and then dodge the remainder?
Do both, but personally I would just do whatever is faster for that act.
I suppose it would be best if I alternated, that way it's a something a little fresh each time.
Begun work I guess. First checkpoint met at 0:11 (Entered by 0:13)
Rather than aiming to get all rings that come, you should also aim to get the exact amount required for the emerald. Say if the amount needed was 140, then aim for 70 for each of Sonic and Tails, should give you a much faster ring count-up at the end of the stage.
No, don't do this.
Use the category "Ignores delays caused by bonus effects" and do collect the maximum amount of rings. It will be much more entertaining that way.
I personally would have gone for the perfect bonus on the S3K special stages if it wouldn't have greatly increased the play length of those stages.
In S2, only the bonus length is affected, so I strongly suggest that you go for maximum ring collection.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Rather than aiming to get all rings that come, you should also aim to get the exact amount required for the emerald. Say if the amount needed was 140, then aim for 70 for each of Sonic and Tails, should give you a much faster ring count-up at the end of the stage.
No, don't do this.
Use the category "Ignores delays caused by bonus effects" and do collect the maximum amount of rings. It will be much more entertaining that way.
I personally would have gone for the perfect bonus on the S3K special stages if it wouldn't have greatly increased the play length of those stages.
In S2, only the bonus length is affected, so I strongly suggest that you go for maximum ring collection.
I will do this with some stages. I think it's best if I do and don't do this because it adds variation to the special stages.
And for the note, there is no bonus for collecting all the rings in the special stages, it just provides more score for the player.
There is a bonus of 50,000 points for collecting all the rings on a stage (I have done it myself, on EH1 at least.)
I wonder what a TAS of an all-rings run would look like
There is a bonus of 50,000 points for collecting all the rings on a stage (I have done it myself, on EH1 at least.)
I wonder what a TAS of an all-rings run would look like
I was referring to the special stage ring count. RUnning around collecting all the rings in a stage itself is tasteless. Not to mention it's impossible on some stages because they have rings in bizzare unreachable co-ordinates
it would be awesome to see sonic and tails collect all rings in the special stages, but this is sadly impossible not only on stage 7 but I believe on stage 4 as well D=
what would be neat on stage 7, though, is collecting enough rings to beat the stage by the second checkpoint (there are enough) and then try to not collect anything at all after that, kinda challenging but doable (unless there's a place you can stand and no ring will hit you, I haven't really checked that out)
it would be awesome to see sonic and tails collect all rings in the special stages, but this is sadly impossible not only on stage 7 but I believe on stage 4 as well D=
what would be neat on stage 7, though, is collecting enough rings to beat the stage by the second checkpoint (there are enough) and then try to not collect anything at all after that, kinda challenging but doable (unless there's a place you can stand and no ring will hit you, I haven't really checked that out)
When did you become a mind reader? I was aiming to dodge the rings on stage 7 like that, it would certainly have a "WTF" factor because usually your scrambling like crazy to collect them.
Times so far:
Notes:
Enter [S]pecial[S]tage is from the moment control is granted, until the moment the screen begins to flash to special stage
Complete [S]pecial[S]stage is from the moment control is granted, until screen is completely faded out (and input is ignored)
Enter SS1: 579->1424 (14 seconds)
Complete SS1: 1581->6771 (86.5 seconds)
Enter SS2: 6921-> 7697 (12.9 seconds)
Complete SS2: 7855-> 13632 (96.3 seconds)
Enter SS3: 13782-> 15031 (20.8 seconds)
Complete SS3: 15188-> 21830 (110.7 seconds)
you do realize that the time spent getting all 7 emeralds early isn't made up for by having super sonic early right?
I dunno. If I don't have Super Sonic by the end of Emerald Hill Zone I personally believe It'll be a nuisance having to try and make up for Super Sonic later (Especially in the instance of Chemical Plant). Besides so-far the Special Stages have been 50% en-route with some minor ring collection along the road. Perhaps it's all down to the Route Planning.
I will be providing an encode of my Emerald route once it is complete.
Fuzzerd is correct, because of all the backtracking necessary to recollect 50 rings after each stage, it is overall slower to get super sonic on EHZ. Ideally your route should collect 50 rings before any given lamp post with minimal time spent not moving right at high speeds. To this effect, it is probably faster not to get more than 1 emerald per act of any given zone, and definitely better not to get more than 2 or 3. There is still plenty of time to collect them, this way you can get ~2 seconds detours on 5-7 levels (10-14 seconds total), instead of the ~40 seconds of detours on necessary to get all the emeralds in EHZ. Additionally, this preserves more of a sense of speed in the TAS, and more of the sense of the game's flow, by minimizing the frequency of interruptions.
With Knuckles, the all-emeralds-on-EHZ route would be a bit more viable, because he doesn't lose all his rings upon entering a special stage, but it would still be faster to save at least two for CPZ.
Incidentally, the Sonic 2 maps at The Sonic Center were recently updated with a batch I made. 100% scaled, all rings and objects shown, with hitboxes and solidity.
They should be quite helpful for route planning. (except sky chase).
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
