http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/61775649/Float%20Zone%20Mid%20Backup.m64
Here's progress halfway through Float Zone. I'm having problems kicking the bomb right before input ends. Something about taking damage makes it harder for the game to register a bomb kick it seems. (I just keep walking through it.) It may just be faster to lob a bomb at the switch. I haven't investigated too much. The damage route was executed as planned though. I have been checking Y position to maximize height when jumping at the bubble power.
I've just decided I'm doing a 100% TAS of this game. It won't be easy, just because it's a lot of planning and routing. Since this is my first attempt at 100%, I'm going to show you level 1 when I'm done with it, it might be tommorow, I'm not sure.
Pretty good, there was a lot of parts that looked improvable though. You need to use the TAS Input Plugin more because for instance when you were running towards the green bomb elevator you angle was straight you ran and then did a jagged turn instead of one smooth angle.
It was actually my first time using the TAS Input Plugin, because it took me so long to just get it in and I wasn't quite sure why. But now I have it in, once I feel like I'm prepared enough, I'm going to redo the entire thing for a final publication. But for now, I'll just show you some of my work.
1: 1600 You never have to slip when turning except rarely after landing from a jump. Change direction halfway for 2 frames and then change direction all the way.
2: 1700 Your second bomb is thrown with a low momentum jump. Also, you should most almost bomb things by laying a bomb since it wastes at most 2-3 frames. (Obviously not the first box, but definitely the second.)
3: 1830 Should have laid a bomb to kill the robot.
4: 2050 I feel like you should have been able to hit both monsters with the same bomb. (I realize you have a limited number of bombs, but you didn't really utilize them as well as you could have up until here.)
5: 2200 Altering the timing of the bomb drop can help you grab the ledge earlier.
6: 2250 Poor ledge grab as mentioned.
7: 2400 Never fall off a ledge, either jump or drop a bomb ASAP to preserve momentum.
8: 2550 If you had jumped up to the higher platform earlier, you could have turned around a lot faster with a ground turn around instead of an air turnaround.
9: 3150 Drop a bomb instead of throwing it to kill the robot.
10: 3600 I think dropping a bomb would've helped you get your momentum back sooner after climbing the ledge.
11: 3700 The chicken was handled poorly. I think the best method would be to drop a bomb the first time and then come back and drop 1-2 bombs on the way back.
12: 3850 The reason you bombed the thing under the platform separately from bombing the platform later is beyond me.
13: 4100 You slipped/skidded again.
14: 4200 Lay a bomb instead of throwing.
15: 4700,4800 you have low momentum during two jumps. You can drop a bomb on the first frame possible in the air to regain momentum, or you can run just a few frames longer.
16: 5200 I think if the bomb impacted the wall blocking the chickens it would explode on impact. Not sure if that is true with this type of wall or not. Actually, I would think you want to hit that wall as soon as possible, because killing all the chickens is the limiting factor to getting out of the level. So I think you should have thrown a bomb at it at around frame 5000.
17: You really had no reason to go down into the pit to kill the chickens.
The pathing was pretty decent, the directions chosen for movement weren't bad though I think you could do better. You missed a lot of small time saving techniques that I have found and utilized, and you made a couple poor strategic choices (11,12,16,17)
300 rerecords is pretty lax for a minute of gameplay. While it wasn't bad, I'm pretty confident I could beat you by at least 10-15 seconds.
I get it, I guess I'm not cut out to TAS a game. Still, I'll keep working on it, this time I'm going to finish the entire Bomberman base before I show it.
I'm just saying if you want to compare to the quality of TAS that is probably going to be published, you need to have much more patience and pay closer attention to detail. It would take me at least an hour or two to TAS just that stage well, even after having TASed over 20 minutes of gameplay so far.
It takes a lot of practice and patience to produce a good product, and that is something you need to learn if you want to improve your skills.
I'm not saying this just because I'm the one doing this run. It is true in general.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Captain Forehead wrote:
I get it, I guess I'm not cut out to TAS a game. Still, I'll keep working on it, this time I'm going to finish the entire Bomberman base before I show it.
I quite sure that you could make a publishable run with just a bit of effort (okay that was a lie, it will take ages to finish a 100% run), but you'll find that as you continue making the run using the TAS input plugin etc. will come more naturally to you. Just remember to keep pushing yourself and thinking of new possible ways to approach the situation (i.e. how best to avoid backtracking in a given level). And don't be afraid to start a segment of, or even an entire level from scratch. Obviously no one is asking you to make a perfect run, but with just a bit more effort on your part you can make it that much better.
and listen to Kirkq, his knowledge of the game has far surpassed everyone else's!
How is Float Zone going by the way Kirkq?
I progressed a couple weeks ago. I'm at Nitros; I have to recreate a 3 pylon kill equal or better than my test run which is proving to be difficult. I may make it my goal to finish Nitros this weekend. I'll post a WIP when I've made some substantial progress probably.
University leaves it hard for me to set aside a block of time to focus on TASing difficult tasks. This is a personal problem with my time management skills that I am looking to improve.
I don't memorize levels, but I've just collected the four crystals, I feel as if I've done much better than what I did in the past.
Anyways, I've been practicing the TAS Input Plugin and I'm pretty confident that I can finish the entire run, frustrated or not. Even though I've been playing Bomberman Hero for years, I feel I can still learn a lot more from Kirkq, (as ThMrksman mentioned) I'll try to send a WIP as soon as possible.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Kirkq wrote:
I progressed a couple weeks ago. I'm at Nitros; I have to recreate a 3 pylon kill equal or better than my test run which is proving to be difficult. I may make it my goal to finish Nitros this weekend. I'll post a WIP when I've made some substantial progress probably.
Nitros is a pain in the ass to optimise, i know how you feel. Still, im sure that number 4 will be a fair bit easier (no pylons), and you'll be an old hand at it by the time you're up to 5!
Captain Forehead wrote:
I don't memorize levels, but I've just collected the four crystals
That would be secret room, right?
Captain Forehead wrote:
Anyways, I've been practicing the TAS Input Plugin and I'm pretty confident that I can finish the entire run, frustrated or not. Even though I've been playing Bomberman Hero for years, I feel I can still learn a lot more from Kirkq, (as ThMrksman mentioned) I'll try to send a WIP as soon as possible.
Bomberman Hero Movement optimization 1.0:
- Dropping/Laying a bomb typically takes 0-2 frames.
- If you change directions very sharply and it makes you slip, change direction partially for two frames and then change direction all the way. (The game only reads directional input every two frames.)
- When jumping to grab a ledge, dropping a bomb at an appropriate time will typically let you grab the ledge about 5 frames faster.
- When jumping, throwing a bomb will cause you to start falling faster. This is only rarely useful. (See end of Crysta Hole.)
- Sometimes if Bomberman is pushing up against a wall/door waiting for it to open, he will start off walking slower than if you walk past the door on the first frame possible without running into it. (See Dark Prison if this is unclear.)
- You can gain full momentum during a jump by dropping a bomb midair. There are two ways to do this that are only very slightly different.
1: "A" / / / / / Drop will turn a short jump into a full jump without holding A
2: "A" until you're doing a full jump, drop when it lets you.
-Similarly to this note, make sure you are never in falling animation for the most part.
-Coming out of the fan in Secret Room I dropped a bomb to regain momentum. Similarly at the beginning of Fog Route (I think?) I dropped a bomb to gain momentum because it starts out falling.
-In Water Pool I jumped before falling down a hole to increase my falling speed.
The end of Secret Room, dropping a bomb while walking uphill (only) is the fastest way to gain momentum.
This is all I can think of at the moment without rewatching the whole thing. I hope it helps. If you have any questions about tricks I'm more than willing to help. I'd recommend you review my progress so far and see how I use various tricks to deal with certain situations.
I think I just about got it with your progress, the tricks and times savers are extremely helpful though. I did about most of them in my second unpublishable WIP, but I will now make full use of them in this next one. ;)
Hey Kirkq, I've been following this since you started and was wondering a few things. I started a console speed run, somewhat based on your TAS for World 1, and it looks great. You mentioned below you drop a bomb when you begin Fog Route to get momentum, but couldn't you do the same thing in Clown Valley? Or is the fall too short to make a difference?
Also, what's the window of precision on that jump around the wall in Fog Route? Am I going to be able to pull that off on console? Because I've been trying for some time now and can't get it.
And how's progress on Katina coming?
Clown Valley - I'm not going to look right now, maybe I forgot. Dropping a bomb almost always regains momentum as quickly as possible.
You may be able to pull off the Fog Route jump after enough practice, but you will die a lot trying. It's quite possible in real time, but I'm not sure how consistently you'll be able to do it. That was Zar's find not mine by the way.
I'm trying to keep pressing forward on Nitrodon and I's SNES 7th Saga run, but it's proving to be difficult. Once I finish that I will put most of my efforts towards Bomberman Hero.
University has me pretty busy lately unfortunately.
Here's a relatively new WIP I never posted. It goes up to Nitros.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1523199368/At%20Nitros%20W3.m64
Maybe I'll work on this some more in my spare time once Winter Break rolls around. I have four midterms and four finals before then. =[
I did not expect this quick of a response lol.
I understand school getting in the way. I'm just letting you know there's at least someone that's paying attention to this game. Good luck to you, in this and your 7th Saga TAS.
And I just realized Mupen64 does not work on my computer. I'll have to wait.
I noticed on Waterway from the platform from the spikes you jump up on to the upper platform and then a second jump into the hole. I've found that with a slight bit of momentum you can make the jump from the spike platform directly on to the edge of the hole. That should save a slight bit of time.
I'll make note of it to check that, but I was pretty sure I tried that.
It is nearly impossible in this game to go back and redo progress without starting over unfortunately, so I have to go on.
Also, it was discovered later that going around the left of the final tree in Groog Hills is slower. You want to jump and barely grab the ledge from the right (not jumping from the higher platform.)
I will make more progress on this run soon enough.
I'm on that segment of the run right now on my console speed run (Primus Area 1) and it definitely seems like a tiny run for momentum is faster than an extra full jump.
And since I'm on that segment, the Groog Hills advice is helpful. Also, how do you get past the stingray on Erars Lake without him blowing you back? I haven't been able to figure that out.
It's a timing issue. If you're too close you will get pushed back in like 3 second intervals or something. Once a bomb hits him he is stunned. As soon as he is stunned, if you keep him stunned by hitting him at appropriate intervals, he won't push you back.
Fire the first bomb, stop for a bit, let it hit him, start moving forward and keep hitting him.
It seems my run will get behind your console run pretty soon. Be sure to check out some of the notes earlier in this thread about later levels. Note that it is possible to skip the screws in Storm Valley with a well placed wall jump, I would really like to see this in your run.
Alright, thanks. I'll make sure that in my accepted segment I get the stingray, as well as those screws right when I get to that part. I might also redo my first segment, as it's the only one with a noticeable mistake. The rest look (at least to me) really good for being on console.
And, if I have any problems with routing levels I may ask for more advice, as well as I can try to help you once you get eventually get back around to this.
Well, I've gotten as far as the Heavy Room, but I came upon a simple question to myself.
Apparently, if you collect everything in Heavy Room, you get more than the required score needed to get 5 points! :/
So my question is this: Should I get all of the remaining items to get my score even higher, or should I just get the minimum amount needed?
