While it's mostly done for entertainment, it also means that we nearly always have a healthy supply of red eggs, leaving us with more opportunities to shoot things for stars.
There was also one point in 1-4 where juggling eggs saved time, as we were able to 'carry' a total of 7 eggs across part of the level instead of 6.
We are obviously a very, very long way from completing the TAS. However, since we and probably everyone wants this 100% TAS to include the extra levels, the endpoint of the TAS is a bit problematic.
It is problematic because 100% completion of all regular levels of a world unlocks the extra level of that world, so to unlock 6-E we need to complete 6-8, which triggers the credits. While these can be skipped, completing all extra levels does not trigger credits...
A previous discussion on this can be found here.
These are the options (A possible reason for this option will be listed in italics):
After defeating the final boss, we can:
1) Use start+select to exit the level. 6-8 will be listed as 100% completed and the extra level is available (moves on fast to the extra levels without breaking up the gameplay, no fastforwarding or seeking to the extra levels needed)
2) Let all credits roll and reset the game after the credits (possibly (depending what other option is picked) the only way to include the credits in the TAS)
Concerning the order of the extra levels:
1)) Complete the extra levels in the order 1-E, 2-E...6-E (not as confusing as a random order)
2)) Complete the extra levels in a random order (might be faster than a regular order, after leaving 6-8 you end up on the world 6 level select screen)
What to do after completing the last extra level:
1))) Stop input at the final goal ring (score talies to 100% (as in all levels) and happy music)
2))) After the level, press the score button at the level select screen (flips over all levels to show that 100% of the levels is completed)
3))) Reset the game and end after skipping the intro (this leaves the game as the yoshi island animation, which will be at dark, as 6-8 was completed, it also shows 6 stars at the game file for the 6 extra levels that have been completed at 100%)
4))) Redo 6-8 (This option will redo level 6-8, which includes redoing a long autoscroller and the final boss, after the final boss is defeated the credits will roll)
We'd like to know what you think is the best way to end the TAS. Suggestions for endings we didn't think of are of course also welcome.
We plan to do all extra levels after 6-8 (so not in between worlds) for several reasons, which is why doing them in between levels wasn't listed as an option.
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
If the run's not done, there's no point in letting the credits run; just skip them.
If there is a faster order for completing the extra levels, I'd prefer to see that, though I suspect there's negligible time gain there compared to the time taken in selecting the levels.
As to what to do after the last level, I would personally prefer to end the run at the moment of completion of the last level.
There's a similar problem with SNES Kirby Super Star: While the last real mode, Milky Way Wishes, gives you a great and colorful staff roll with nice music, the last mode to be played in order to get 100% is the Arena mode and its ending isn't nearly as beautiful (only Kirby holding a golden cup).
The upcoming any% run will use many resets to skip cutscenes and a 100% run would also skip the staff roll I mentioned and directly go on to the Arena mode.
Therefore I say, use the fastest way of acquiring 100% without any entertainment trade-offs (I don't know about the warp glitch, I don't really care if it is used or not). You can decide how to end the movie but I wouldn't redo all of 6-8 for the credits.
My opinion:
- skip the credit roll if it's faster, we already have it featured in the any%, so nobody will really miss it;
- don't finish any stages twice, it's completely unnecessary;
- do the extra stages in whatever order is faster;
- finish the TAS on a 100% completion confirmation screen (option #2 in your list).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
Definitely skip the credits after 6-8. As for the extra levels, use whatever order you want, though I suspect that it's going to be fastest to do 1-E after 1-8, 2-E after 2-8, etc. This way, you do the world-changing animation the fewest number of times, and also the movie feels nice and sequential.
As for where to end after the last stage, I would suggest resetting to the title screen, with the six stars on that screen (i.e. option 3). This is the actual indicator of a 100% completion of the whole game, whereas showing the scores for one stage only shows that 1/6 of the game was 100% completed.
(At least the good news about this decision is that if you feel like changing your mind about where to end the movie, it is also the easiest thing to change by replaying / hexediting.)
Good luck guys! I finally saw worlds 1-1 through 1-4 and was completely blown away. Did you figure out why the red coin in 1-5 didn't want to appear at first?
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
- skip the credit roll if it's faster, we already have it featured in the any%, so nobody will really miss it;
- don't finish any stages twice, it's completely unnecessary;
- do the extra stages in whatever order is faster;
mklip2001 wrote:
As for where to end after the last stage, I would suggest resetting to the title screen, with the six stars on that screen (i.e. option 3). This is the actual indicator of a 100% completion of the whole game, whereas showing the scores for one stage only shows that 1/6 of the game was 100% completed.
Everyone seems to agree that there is no need for an ending sequence, which is great as this is exactly what we were thinking. So the first question is resolved, and the fourth option of the last question can also be ignored. Particularly on the second question however, both NxCy and I would have picked the other option than what seems to be the popular opinion:
Baxter wrote:
Concerning the order of the extra levels:
1)) Complete the extra levels in the order 1-E, 2-E...6-E (not as confusing as a random order)
2)) Complete the extra levels in a random order (might be faster than a regular order, after leaving 6-8 you end up on the world 6 level select screen)
Basically all 7 people that replied were in favor of 2)), whereas NxCy and I are in favor of 1)).
We basically like option 1)) because it's more structured. The game has quite a nice variety of levels that gradually become more difficult. The extra levels would fit quite well after the regular levels in this aspect. It might also confuse people who are watching, and it would make it hard to seek for a particular (extra) level. It has a sense of perfectness about it that Yoshi will take on whatever level comes next.
On the more practical side, it takes over 100 frames to select a level in a different world, and doing an extra level before 6-8 would mean one extra of these transitions. It would therefore not even be likely that doing an extra level earlier would save time. We also know that we'll leave 6-8 without eggs, so we'd have to make a world transition there anyway, which might very well be 1-E... so no extra transitions there. Due to the many possible orders of completing the worlds, it is unlikely that the right order turns out to be the fastest... but it won't cost a lot of gametime (we are talking about frames). It would cost a lot of time in planning though (you would need to know exactly how much time picking up each enemy costs to plan an egg route, which is particularly impossible for 1-E where the bats appear randomly).
Would it be ok if we played them in the right order (1-E, 2-E...6-E, all after 6-8), or do you think it would really be better if we did them at any point.
Baxter wrote:
What to do after completing the last extra level:
1))) Stop input at the final goal ring (score talies to 100% (as in all levels) and happy music)
2))) After the level, press the score button at the level select screen (flips over all levels to show that 100% of the levels is completed)
3))) Reset the game and end after skipping the intro (this leaves the game as the yoshi island animation, which will be at dark, as 6-8 was completed, it also shows 6 stars at the game file for the 6 extra levels that have been completed at 100%)
1))) 1 vote
2))) 3 votes
3))) 2 votes
NxCy like option 1))) best. I myself don't know which one I like best yet... they all have their advantages and disadvantages:
1))) Like all TASes, input stops after last bit of gameplay and the score tallying to 100% is nice... but it's the same screen as every other level would have, and ending an avi with this would seem quite abrupt
2))) Slightly less abrupt, but a bit more random, especially considering that it also just shows that 1 world has been completed with 100%.
3))) The only version which has a sign of exactly what has been completed. There needs to be a reset however... and we currently have no idea where this will be. Either way, the reset will look very abrupt probably (maybe it's possible to reset right after the goalring) and people might be confused by it going through the game startup sequence. For many people it also might not be clear that 6 stars refer to the worlds that are completed at 100%...
We'd love some more opinions about this, although it's less pressing than the question above it. Which would be abrupt? Which would confuse viewers? Is either of this a problem?
mklip2001 wrote:
Definitely skip the credits after 6-8. As for the extra levels, use whatever order you want, though I suspect that it's going to be fastest to do 1-E after 1-8, 2-E after 2-8, etc. This way, you do the world-changing animation the fewest number of times, and also the movie feels nice and sequential.
Yeah, this would also be nice and sequential, but will be relatively slow. You indeed end up at the same level when unlocking it when the next world hasn't been unlocked... but when we unlock it, we'll unlock the next world at the same time, so we'll start off at the next world, which means that if this is done, it would cost an extra world transition each time.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
Oh, of course, doing 1-E, 2-E, ..., 6-E uses the fewest world transitions. I don't know what I was thinking. Yeah, I'd suggest that you go with that. Although my previous suggestion is pretty sequential (and slow), the order of 1-E, 2-E, etc should also be fine, since the extra levels often aren't particularly related to the regular worlds anyway. (For instance, 1-E: Poochy Ain't Stupid doesn't resemble pretty much anything from World 1 at all.)
My thinking about 3))) is sort of like what was done in the Tony Hawk 3 run... the run ends with the screen that displays maxed-out stats. That is the conclusive indicator that the run is completely 100% done. However, I'm fine with whichever option for that question you decide to follow.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
I'm not sure about the extra levels...
About ending the input: Use either 1) or 3).
Does resetting save time in the main TAS? If not, then don't be afraid to reset. As I described in my earlier post the Kirby Super Star TAS will use a lot of resets so a single reset at the end of your TAS won't hurt in my opinion. It can feel abrupt if the reset is right at the goal ring though... in that case I would prefer 1) over 3).
I think doing all the extra levels in order would be the best option. And I think they should all be done after the credits. Also, as far as ending the movie, I think it should be done at the title screen. I think any confusion related to this can be avoided if it's announced when the movie ends on the movie description.
How about you make both? Submit the one that ends at the last special level and in the author comments include an smv that does 6-8 over again after the special level.
Do the extra levels in sequential order. I'd much rather see the run end at 6E than 1E, and I can't imagine that the time lost will be more than a few seconds at the very worst, which for a run that's going to be over an hour and already sacrifices many seconds due to not wobbling as another speed/entertainment trade-off is incredibly little.
As for ending the movie I prefer option 3, I think it would make for the most stylish ending (as it properly "takes you out of the game", leaves you with the pretty island animation and show signs of full completion). And it could probably be done after the score tally of the final level, so it doesn't seem too abrupt. Again this costs a little time, but compared to the length of the movie it is nothing.
Maybe, when they talked about "the other", they were talking about Spezzafer's wip. This wip completes levels up to 4-2 getting 100%, and he is quite a bit faster than your wips in every level.
creaothceann wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible to use SNES9x 1.51? It seems to have less graphical errors, especially in the 4th level.
I already responded to this, but the movies by Bretaigne94 (where SNES9x 1.51 is used), like this one, prove my point even more (skip to 1:40, the boss battle). There is so much lag in this boss battle... while there is none of that lag on the actual SNES (1:50, same boss battle). I don't know if this is the case for other games also, but if so, I think we might need to reconsider this.
Joined: 7/21/2005
Posts: 7
Location: Louisiana, USA
Just wanted to give this thread a congratulatory bump on deciding to share your 1-1 through 1-4 100% WIP on NcXy's YouTube Channel. The more attention that perfection-in-progress gets the better!
You guys are awesome, and do know that your work is heavily inspiring my own work on destroying all my old Individual Level 100% Records back at SDA in my Yoshi's Island thread. :)
