I showed your vid to the S2 champ at TSC and he made these comments while we were discussing it:
- AR1 and AR2 should be at the top of his improvement list
- MZ3 could be improved considerably if he were prepared to take a hit or four
- point of interest: he doesnt like the ceiling jump technique
- i suspect it isnt necessary to spindash that much [in the AR2 boss fight]
And we both think you need to abuse spindashing more.
K, I just got a 12 hit run. I didn't record it, but I will describe the essential improvements over your video; you should have no trouble pulling this off.
Hit 1-2: During spawn, no change.
Hit 3-6: Top, bottom, top, bottom. No change.
Hit 7: Top. This is where you need to start being very precise with your movements. You need as low as possible clearance over the fire so that you fall to the ground in the least number of frames possible. You also need to be holding (<--) in preparation for hit 8.
Hit 8: Bottom. If your clearance on hit 7 was low enough, you should be able to land hit 8 before he stops flashing (that is, there is no lag between hits 7 and 8.) Again you must strive to minimize your jump, so that you land as quickly as possible. As soon as you hit you need to be holding (-->) to position yourself for hit 9.
Hit 9: Top. Land the hit as quickly as possible (I was not able to land hit 9 before he stopped flashing, but speed is essential.) After landing the hit, do not bounce back over the flame. You need to fall on the left side of the flame. This is not terribly easy, but it can be done because he begins settling back in preparation for his launch. (It's much easier to pull off this maneuver if you are not very quick in landing hit 9. It is essential, however, that you both land hit 9 as fast as you can, and bounce off the hit in such a way that you can fall through Robotnik without being tossed into the flame.)
Hit 10: Bottom. Land it before he stops flashing.
Hit 11: Bottom. Counterintuitively, you do not want to land hit 11 before he stops flashing, because if you do, you will bounce upwards off the hit. Wait long enough to land the hit so that you bounce downwards off the hit (but still be speedy about it! Let him stop flashing for 1 frame at most.)
Hit 12: Bottom. You should land from hit 11 before he launches. Jump with all your might. If hit 11 was fast enough, Robotnik will fall to pieces just when you think he's going to get away.
The key steps are hits 9 and 11, that is falling through Robtonik on the left side of the flame, and hesitating to land hit 11. I didn't bother to finish the level, but with a perfect spindash the screen should fade on 42 or 43.
I hope you enjoy the strat, and please try to optimize all the levels just as much as EH1, CP1, and DE now are. Don't be afraid to try counterintuitive strategies!
Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see the finished product.
I showed your vid to the S2 champ at TSC and he made these comments while we were discussing it:
- AR1 and AR2 should be at the top of his improvement list
- MZ3 could be improved considerably if he were prepared to take a hit or four
- point of interest: he doesnt like the ceiling jump technique
- i suspect it isnt necessary to spindash that much [in the AR2 boss fight]
And we both think you need to abuse spindashing more.
I believe it goes without saying that I will be improving ALL of the levels, though Metropolis and Wing Fortress won't improve as much since that's around when I started using frame advance.
I agree completely about AR1 and AR2 - these are the next levels for me to do, and I plan on improving them by quite a bit (as well as using minimal spindashes on the boss); dunno what you're talking about with MZ3, though, or what the "ceiling jump technique" is...
* Quietust, QMT Productions
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
This is going to be fantastic when it's done.
I still think the fast ducking when you finish a level is annoying and unnecessary though. There has to be something more interesting you can do. Play catch with Tails or something.
Before you continue your run, you might find it profitable to shave a few frames off of CP1. 17 seconds is possible. Here is where and how to modify your run:
@ 13 seconds - Make your jump up to the final platform more efficient. You lose 10 or more frames here.
@ 15 seconds - Jump up this ramp so that you can land on your feet at the top and stop. I believe the absolute last frame you should be ducked by is 2:02:48. I'm sure you can do better than that, though.
@ 15 seconds - Spindash and balls to the wall straight to the end.
Enjoy!
Some useful tips, though hexediting them in proved to be a MAJOR pain (had to redo the boss fight in Chemical Plant Zone 2 as well). Chemical Plant Zone 1 is now just *barely* finished in 17 seconds (a few more frames and it'd be 18). I've also just hexedited in some higher quality end-of-zone seizures. :)
Current status:
EH1: 0:18
EH2: 0:36
CP1: 0:17
CP2: 0:51
AR1: 0:19
AR2: 0:40
CN1: goal = 0:26 or faster
* Quietust, QMT Productions
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
You can shave more than 30 frames off of AR2 by rolling off the first spring (and holding down as you traverse the level.) If you need to be on your feet for the jump, you may jump into the corner on the cieling at the very bottom of the enclosed portion before the jump, at 9 seconds.
You should also save some time by rolling off of the second spring, but I did not test this as I am not familiar with the conditions you need to spawn the boss in the manner which you prefer.
Just rolling off of the first spring alone is enough to lower your time to 39 seconds.
Rolling off the first spring saved enough time that I could fall directly into the last red spring without having to make an extra jump (since I fell right off the ledge above, rather than off the swinging platform), though rolling off the last spring actually made it take 3 frames LONGER to reach the boss. With the speed gained here, I was able to get 0:39 plus 8 frames.
[edit] After adding an underwater slope-jump I missed earlier, I just barely managed to succeed in getting a time of 0:38 on Aquatic Ruin 2.
Current status:
EH1: 0:18
EH2: 0:36
CP1: 0:17
CP2: 0:51
AR1: 0:19
AR2: 0:38
CN1: 0:25
CN2: goal = 1:01 or faster
HT1: goal = 0:45 or faster
HT2: goal = 1:00 or faster
MC1: goal = 0:35 or faster
MC2: goal = 0:41 or faster
OO1: goal = 0:35 or faster
OO2: goal = 0:51 or faster
MZ1: goal = 1:01 or faster
MZ2: goal = 1:00 or faster
MZ3: goal = 1:53 or faster
WFZ: goal = 1:47 or faster
DEZ: goal = 0:43 or faster
* Quietust, QMT Productions
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
My first attempt at Casino Night 2 managed to get 57 seconds, 4 seconds faster than in my original run. The fact that it immediately desynched at the beginning of the level was somewhat of a blessing - when I redid it, I managed to shave off an additional 2 seconds.
Current status:
Emerald Hill --- 0:18 - 0:36
Chemical Plant - 0:17 - 0:51
Aquatic Ruin --- 0:19 - 0:38
Casino Night --- 0:25 - 0:55
Hill Top ------- 0:45 - 1:00
Mystic Cave ---- 0:35 - 0:41
Oil Ocean ------ 0:35 - 0:51
Metropolis ----- 1:01 - 1:00 - 1:53
Wing Fortress -- 1:47
Death Egg ------ 0:48
* Quietust, QMT Productions
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
I wanna join the fan club too!
Finally watched this run after seeing M.I.'s attempts, but there's no comparison at all. While M.I. almost had me snoring at times, I can't even follow parts of this. Definitely how a Sonic run should be, keep it up!
Joined: 6/20/2004
Posts: 292
Location: United Kingdom
This may be a bit unrelated, but why doesn't anybody like doing runs with emeralds in them? It may not be the shortest route but seeing those special stages perfected... of course this run there's be no point in getting them as you are this far into the game. I know quite a few people that would like one with all the sonic games.
BTW, Great work so far.
This may be a bit unrelated, but why doesn't anybody like doing runs with emeralds in them?
Because getting the emeralds is an incredibly time-consuming process, requiring fifty rings and a stop at a checkpoint, plus a fixed-rate bonus stage. Seven times.
You have to go out of your way to pick up extra rings to activate the bonus rounds, you lose all your speed when you enter them, and there's no way to speed them up (also almost no way to make them interesting).
So no. Just no.
If you really have to do it, I'd suggest using the level select code and play them all in a row.
Hill Top 1 basically took the same route, using frame advance to get more precision and find better jump spots, and was improved by 3 seconds.
After fixing the problem Truncated pointed out, I also found a way to run straight through the rising lava part without taking damage. Unfortunately, the added speed made it impossible to land at an optimal position for the end-level spindash (in order to avoid clipping the ledge above the final ramp I had to slow down for 3 frames, so I couldn't land far enough forward), so I had to settle for a 1-point jump to get there first. In any event, it managed to shave 2more seconds off the time.
Current status:
Emerald Hill --- 0:18 - 0:36
Chemical Plant - 0:17 - 0:51
Aquatic Ruin --- 0:19 - 0:38
Casino Night --- 0:25 - 0:55
Hill Top ------- 0:40 - 1:00
Mystic Cave ---- 0:35 - 0:41
Oil Ocean ------ 0:35 - 0:51
Metropolis ----- 1:01 - 1:00 - 1:53
Wing Fortress -- 1:47
Death Egg ------ 0:48
* Quietust, QMT Productions
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
At 0:04, you don't need to wait for the skull to come down to continue, you can jump up. But I'm guessing you know this and it is somehow faster to use the skull because of the spindash glitch.
