loathed by many, liked by others, PQ is still one of my favourite games.
WOuld a SR be worthwile? i know it almost upside down, inside out. it's not like there are many sidequests...
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/360413250/Paladin%27s%20Quest%20%28U%29.smv
a first test run. I just saved Midia. few comments
- there is an incredible frame lag, making it hard to know when to press a button
- battles seem unavoidable, but they are easy to escape from AND control the enemies in the battle/if it's a first strike
- stats are easy to max out
I hope this one turns out well, because if it does, it means you can be a bad game with unavoidable battles and still be entertaining to watch.
Gives me hope for an Inindo: Way of the Ninja run in the future. :)
Hey, I like Paladin's Quest a lot. I can't really help with strategies because it's been so long since I last played it, though. But I'm definitely behind you for the completion of that game, just like BoF2 (which was amazing) and BoF1.
Glad to see that someone's trying this one out.
There are a ton of PAR codes at http://gshi.org/?s=v2&sys=6&gid=554. Of course, it's only the first six digits of each code that matter, since that indicates memory location, which is what we really care about.I looked at the page's code for no random battles in this game, and it looks like the location (7E1868) is the number of steps before battle. Maybe you could try to find ways to maximize the value of that location? It seems, for example, that changing when you leave town changes the initial value.
There's also http://gshi.org/vb/threads/1536-My-PAR-Code-Proof?highlight=paladin%27s. The Paladin's quest zip has a file called "paladinq.txt" that may have some useful info.
EDIT: a guy called Daggerdias78 has posted some interesting stuff inside in a thread called "Ah where are all the topics about this game!!??" on GameFAQs's Paladin's Quest board. This one, in particular seems like it could save some major time, but unfortunately it probably wouldn't be accepted due to it requiring a pre-made save (and I haven't tested it to see whether it's true or not):
DaggerDias78 wrote:
THE ULTIMATE PALADIN'S QUEST SECRET ---- MIDIA JOINS AT LEVEL 63!
This is something that apparently nobody knows about, I found it by accident a decade ago. Midia's starting level is determined by how much money you have. If you have a file on the end of the game (or one with maxed out money, preferably) then start playing on that file. You need to lose a battle so fire any mercenary and have both chezni and midia cast hire until they die because it takes 150 HP and you want to die quickly unless your bored. When you have died, IMMEDIATELY START A NEW GAME! When you start out on your new game Chezni will have inherited all of the money that you had on the file you just died on. By the time you reach Midia she will join on a level in the early 60's with 1000+ HP, weapons you wont get until the saskuot missions, a highbl instead of a minibl, and a TON of magic already maxed out. Her bury spell will be doing 200 damage to anything. Have fun beating the first set of bosses in one hit! Just don't forget to level up Chezni because once you reach Lokiarn then Midia won't be your MVP anymore. ******WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT ON A FILE THAT IS AT THE PAST BECAUSE IT WILL CAUSE UNIRATS TO APPEAR IN PLACE OF PAKRATS WHEN YOU START OVER AND THEY WILL KILL YOU!******
About the only thing that I thought sucked about this game, is the Magic System. I mean, using HP instead of MP for magic? Come on!
Other than that flaw, it's a good game.
Zidanax: it sounds like the use of a predefined save in that glitch is just to have easy access to lots of money. If there's some kind of moneymaking exploit or glitch then it might be possible to do this without having to have a dirty SRAM.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I looked a little further into the trick, and I'm not sure some money-making trick would let us get a powered-up Midia. I tried upping the amount of money in my possesion through PAR codes, but that didn't change her level upon joining my party. Nor did hacking the amount of EXP and Gold enemies gave, leveling up to around level 35, then having Midia join me. What had results was closely following what DaggerDias78 did: dying somewhere further along in the game. When you die, the game takes you back to the screen where you can start a new game or load one. Then, without resetting, start a new game. Then as DaggerDias78 said, Chezni will start with a bunch of money. I haven't tested further yet, but presumably Midias will start with a high level as they said.
EDIT: He also noted something else later:
DaggerDias78 wrote:
WARNING: Do not try to inherit money from a file that is in "the past" because the pakrats on the world map will be replaced with unirats and they are impossible for chezni to defeat at level 1.
While I haven't been able to duplicate Midia entering the party very powerful yet, dying in the past did result in unirats showing up on the world map (but not in the tower you go through with Duke). What's kind of funny is that the world is then in black and white. Even the world map music changes.
I'm not sure mucking about with SRAM will be very useful for us given site rules anyway. A question however: Do you know how to watch memory locations? If you don't, you definitely should learn. It looks like it'll be useful here, if for no other reason than to minimize random encounters by manipulating that location that holds number of steps until the next battle.
EDIT: finally got Midia to join with a higher level than usual. Hardcoded GP to 999,999, restarted the game, played through to her. But she was only Level 22. That may have something to do with the hardcoding. Maybe obtaining 999,999 GP legitimately would get us a level 63 Midia. In any case, I suppose this won't be of any use unless a. a dirty SRAM is allowed or b. We can find some sort of money-making trick very early on.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Janus, you are a beast! This game is awesome and it would be great to have a run for it.
There are some technical details that would be interesting to know. Especially how to manipulate to encounters.
On gamefaqs the savestate hack guide has some nice info on where stats are stored. But when you look directly in the memory the offsets are offset. Anyway, 7E1612 has your fire affinity and 7E1617 is sp affinity (For first char. Other chars will be after this.
These affinities are 8-bit values and it seems that they always go up by 2. Now it looks like when you use fireG you sometimes get fire and sometimes sp. Sometimes both go up. I wonder if you can always manipulate that? If you have to fight a lot of enemies, manipulating higher spell stats could make Chezni quite powerful. The final boss would also be a lot easier since only his magic does any damage.
I'll see what I can find out about encounters. I haven't done assembly analysis on SNES before though.
In my experience, it's faster to just hold the A button when going through the various messages that pop up when you gain a level. When I tried that at the point where you beat the goblins in Fritz's house, I saved about 15 frames over your run.
I restarted after saving Midia. I don't need to shop for items (I will get them half price in Hagubo) and I need to raise my magic level some more. Those birds are worth a lot
Is there more manipulation that could be done? There are three things in particular:
-Enemy patterns. For each area, there is going to be an 'ideal' enemy setup, generally the one that gives you the most XP in the least time. I notice you often fight many different layouts in an area, I wonder if this can be improved.
-Battle attacks. For the cause of building magic affinity, you use many different spells each battle. I notice that Blowup seems to be your most powerful spell, yet you often use FireG or BoltS first. I wonder if you couldn't use your most powerful spells first, in order to kill some enemies faster. That way, you wouldn't have as many enemy actions, and wouldn't need to heal as often.
-Item usage. The cards have a max benefit of +5, but you often only get +4. Since you use several in the same batch, I wonder if varying the order could get you more +5s. I think it'd be worth it to sacrifice an extra frame or two to try and manipulate this.
Enemy patterns. For each area, there is going to be an 'ideal' enemy setup, generally the one that gives you the most XP in the least time. I notice you often fight many different layouts in an area, I wonder if this can be improved.
I usually go for the strike first. but yes, what I strike first could be manipulated
I wonder if you couldn't use your most powerful spells first, in order to kill some enemies faster
but then, my affinities with other spells wouldn't be as high. I'm thinking about manipulating the dropping of cards...
I think it'd be worth it to sacrifice an extra frame or two to try and manipulate this.
http://rapidshare.com/files/368905427/Paladin_s_Quest__U_.smv.html
this is it! A few changes that need to be done
- I don't need that many armours and defense gears. mercenaries can usually take the hit; Midia and Chenzi can be at the back
- I have to find the ideal mercenaries. I have to save time there
- I actually don't need that much affinity to do a lot of damage wiht Spirit. I must find more cards/manipulate the dropping
- I have to find a way to reduce the number of fights. Pro balls could be a way. and as tristal suggested : i have to find an optimal group of enemy
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Ok, I got around to doing some analysis on this game. Since there's no debugger on snes9x I couldn't figure out exactly what is going on but I was able to learn a lot with RAM analysis.
RNGs:
There are at least two different seeds used in random number generation. One is at 0023 and one at 0024. 0023 is most important seems to control everything in battle. 0024 doesn't change in battle but does change in outer world. The seed at 0023 increments every frame when ordering your guys around but during the battle it only increments as needed to get random number for hits, damage, etc. In the outer world it and 0024 change every 17th frame when 1884 hits zero. But that change doesn't seem straightforward and I can't see the pattern.
Encounters:
Set a memwatch at 7E1868. As you walk around this value decreases. When it hits zero, you get a fight on the next step. This gets set when you leave a town or just before getting control to move on after a battle. I can't figure out the exact algorithm for how this gets set. It seems to have two components, one more random than the other. The more random part uses the RNG seed at 0024. The less random component seems to cycle through a list of numbers around 10, 20, 30, 40 each time a new step count is generated.
Spell affinities:
When you use multiple elements in one battle, the increase at the end of battle is random. Unfortunately the determination happens just before the "enemies defeated" message and so the luck for this is tied to the luck in the last round of battle. Still, you should be able to exert some control over what stats go up. For example you can make sure fire always goes up to power up most of your attack magic.
Other manipulation:
The random counter does increment during the messages after battle. That's why you can manipulate levelup stats so easily. You might be able to use this time to manipulate your luck for the next battle. You would have much finer control due to the fact that luck changes every frame vs every 17th frame. But there seem to be some other factors in how the enemy group and surprise value are chosen.
During the Dal Gren battle where you die in the beginning you don't gain fire affinity for using magic. I didn't look through all the battles for this though.
For affinities, can multiple elements go up in one battle? If so, this needs to be manipulated for sure. If not, you get to save a ton of time not doing those 1 damage attacks.
You should also be able to manipulate the number of steps to the next battle, this means both fewer battles, and less time spent walking in front of the big red bird (if you do indeed need those levels still)
If you CAN be getting card drops, you should, every time. Especially abuse F. Witches for Fire cds. Even better if there's some eq you could use.
Since the final battles depend entirely on ATBack and Spirit, and your HP doesn't seem to be an issue, I think you could go way lower in levels if you wanted, especially if you had even more affinity due to better manipulation and cards.
Do you really need Midia using SPUp all the time? I'm not sure how relevant Midia's affinities really are. (Especially E/Sp.)
Could you be using the instant kill spells at all? Seems like this could save a ton of time.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Well, there are definitely limits to how well some of these can be manipulated.
Each character who uses multiple elements in a battle seems to always get at least one going up. If they use two then it seems possible to manipulate both going up. I haven't checked whether you can get 3 elements going up for one character. With two characters each using two elements it seems difficult to get all four elements increasing. So I wouldn't expect to use many elements in each battle and get all of them increasing. Even if you could you might have to set up the final round of battle to be really simple to manipulate it.
In calculating steps to next battle I mentioned there are two components. The part that can be manipulated only varies by a small amount, less than 10. Plus, this amount is based on the seed at 0024. That doesn't change during the battle. So on the instant each battle spawns all of these are set at once:
-Enemy group
-Element of surprise
-Steps to next battle
It is probably impossible to optimize all of these for every fight. But you could get more control by waiting some frames at the end of a battle and maybe some more outside of battle.
