I've decided to cancel this for now because of many complaints about the game's downtime and low-quality action.
I believe I can clean this up considerably if I do some sprite following, missile following, and maybe some frame-by-frame synchronized movements during the downtime when nothing else is happening.
Also, I am going to use as many missiles as possible, possibly being able to kill more enemies as a bonus, and making it more impressive with the final targets. This will take me a bit longer to produce, but a really good TAS should take more time anyways!
Thanks for the feedback from everyone, I hope the next attempt will be something most everyone can truly enjoy all of.
EDIT
Also, with all of this voting, it's clear you either love it or hate it. This kind of indicates to me that redoing this run may not work as planned to sway votes, but we'll see!
In This TAS:
No damage/death run.
The bigger missiles were chosen in levels 2, 3, and 4 in order to destroy the target faster. In level 1, there is no target, so it doesn't matter what missiles you choose. Choosing the first set of missiles saves at least 2 frames.
No frame-by-frame editing was used for the refueling (I found it easier to do those parts at normal speed, and just use savestates if necessary for increasing speed).
Frames were saved by hitting the lowest altitude during gameplay before landing. Otherwise, the game takes longer to go down to landing altitude automatically.
This game has a lot of downtime. In order to keep things visually interesting, I attempted to destroy enemies whenever possible; if it wasn't possible to (while avoiding damage), I just re-recorded the section without attempting it.
There weren't very many re-records since the game has so much downtime where you can't really do much anyways. Most of the re-records were spent on the refueling sequences, and many on the enemy kills, too.
Luck manipulation is NOT a big option, all enemies always do the same thing. The only changing factor is enemy gunfire, and sometimes your missiles will take a different path. I was able to exploit this only a couple of times though.
FCEUltra was the emulator used
The Difficulties In This TAS Came As Follows:
Making sure missiles only were shot at the target in the end of levels (if there's a sprite in your sights, the game automatically will take out those with the missile instead of the target
Increasing refueling speed
Hitting many of the sprites, since you most hold "up" or "down" to be facing up or down.
Avoiding all damage
For entertainment value I started this run thinking I could throw gunfire at an enemy and hit them just as they appear; unfortunately, as I found, sprites in this game appear at the SAME number of pixels from the center of the screen no matter which way you are turning, unless there are already sprites on screen as a frame of reference for the game.
Basically, it's impossible to get the crosshair over to the appearing sprite. For example, if I know an enemy will appear to the right, so I go back a few frames to try to go right and line up a shot that hits them right as they appear, I can try all I want but will not be able to and it will still appear to the right.
The Game Itself:
Top Gun is basically a misunderstood game. The game is not QUITE as bad as people say it is, and the concepts turn out to be pretty good. In fact, the more I played it, the more I liked it and appreciated what the developers were trying to do.
Landing and refueling - once you figure out what it is you're actually trying to do - is actually well done and gives you a sense of accomplishment when you do it. The problem is with the graphics, unclear and confusing instructions, and overall gameplay.
Remember, this game was PORTED onto the NES. It was originally made for the PC and Commodore 64. In terms of a flight simulation game, Top Gun actually does fairly well. As a video game (esp. for the NES), it hasn't been universally accepted quite as well.
Some of the game's flaws, such as EPIC sprite popping, lack of level detail, too much downtime, and overall boring gameplay can be forgiven since the game was released in 1987!
The concept of the game is supposed to simulate how actual flight/fight training and combat missions would go in real life.
The landing sequences were meant to force the player to monitor his visual distance from the landing target, altitude (up vs. down), speed, and direction (left vs. right). The game has a very nice balance for this once you figure out how to monitor this data.
Unfortunately, due to the confusing gameplay, most people never ended up fully experiencing the game and the good things that it has to offer.
But I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this game takes a LOT of patience to master. But it can turn out to be very rewarding when you accomplish the harder aspects once you know what to do.
Sorry,I don't like "Top Gun 1",I think it is slow and not cool:(I hope my "Top Gun 2 100%"(cancelled) will bring you some new funny idea/inspiration.
Well, I can understand you don't like the game. But there are TASes of many bad/less-than-stellar games even on this site. Isn't the point of the site to show TASes, and not necessarily pander only to generally-accepted as liked games?
This game actually has some interesting aspects, too. Here's a description I wrote of it (I can't seem to figure out editing my text explanation for the submission):
"In this TAS:
- There was no damage taken
- Weapons choice was optimized to save time
- Refueling sequences played WITHOUT slow-downs, just replayed as necessary (I found these sequences much more doable in real-time w/o frame-by-frame editing).
Top Gun on the NES is basically a misunderstood game. The game is not QUITE as bad as people say it is, and the concepts turn out to be pretty good. In fact, the more I play, the more I like it and appreciate what the developers were trying to do. Landing and refueling - once you figure out what it is you're actually trying to do - is actually well done and gives you a sense of accomplishment when you do it. The problem is with the graphics, unclear and confusing instructions, and overall gameplay.
But remember, this game was PORTED onto the NES. It was originally made for the PC and Commodore 64. In terms of a flight simulation game, Top Gun actually does fairly well. As a video game (esp. for the NES), not quite as well.
The concept of the game is supposed to simulate how actual flight/fight training and combat missions would go in real life. The landing sequences were meant to force the player to monitor his visual distance from the landing target, altitude (up vs. down), speed, and direction (left vs. right). The game has a very nice balance for this once you figure out how to monitor this data.
The problems with the game arose because:
- Unfortunately the developers were not very specific in their instructions, nor did they make it very obvious what the player should be looking at in order to succeed (besides maybe the game booklet, but, really, who reads those things?!)
- Most people tend to ignore the radar instructions since they're not very clear-cut (Most people don't even notice these goals: Alt = 200, Speed = 288).
- The directions are very confusing ("Up! Up!" actually means raise your altitude, and NOT just the nose angle of the plane as shown on the radar).
- Many people tap buttons twice when they're only supposed to do it ONCE (i.e. "Left! Left!" is supposed to mean only tap the "Left" button one time. It says it twice for emphatic purposes only).
They SHOULD have left out the "Up" and "Down" directions on the radar, as well as "Speed Up" and "Speed Down", and let the player monitor this on their own on the plane's dashboard. It would have belayed tons of confusion.
At first, I thought the game designers spent NO time on the game and just tried to push out a game based on a popular movie title to make money asap. That may be only partially true though. Although the game does make you feel like you're in purgatory in terms of graphical detail (~AVGN), I can tell the designers put in a good deal of effort focusing on some of the other aspects of the gameplay:
-For one, it must've been very hard trying to portray a realistic way of landing a plane, and they actually do an okay job, once you know what it is you're trying to do.
- As the missions go on, the levels change. Each level has it's own niche, which is nice (Air-to-air combat, Air-to-sea, Air-to-ground). And mission 4 combines them all and changes the graphics (evening, twilight, then night).
- The lack of music in the majority of the game is to simulate sitting in a cockpit with the jet engine noise.
- The enemies do not get harder, but as you advance in the levels, there are more and more enemies and missiles (especially near the level-ending targets).
Some major flaws such as EPIC sprite popping, overall boring level design, too much downtime, and other things are somewhat forgiveable due to the fact that this game was released in 1987! And, unfortunately, due to the confusing gameplay, most people never ended up fully experiencing the game and the good things that it has to offer. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this game takes a LOT of patience to master. But it can turn out to be very rewarding when you accomplish the harder aspects once you know what to do."
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
Sorry,I don't like "Top Gun 1",I think it is slow and not cool:(I hope my "Top Gun 2 100%"(cancelled) will bring you some new funny idea/inspiration.
Also, I do realize there's a lot of downtime, so I did my best to keep things visually interesting by destroying every enemy possible, not taking damage, and TASing the landing to get as close as possible to the target altitude & speed.
Basically, I saw a need for the movie and explanation of the game and how it works, so I took advantage of the opportunity
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
Sorry,I don't like "Top Gun 1",I think it is slow and not cool:(I hope my "Top Gun 2 100%"(cancelled) will bring you some new funny idea/inspiration.
Well, I can understand you don't like the game. But there are TASes of many bad/less-than-stellar games even on this site. Isn't the point of the site to show TASes, and not necessarily pander only to generally-accepted as liked games?
Uh, he said he doesn't like it, and he thinks it is slow. So no problem there.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Voting yes.
If you've played the game yourself you can understand how frustrating this game is. I thought this TAS did an excellent job of showing a difficult game get crushed. Landing and gassing up sequences were always a pain. Also destroying everything is very impressive.
Unfortunately, I think this submission will have the same fate as some other games. Games in the past have been rejected for poor game choice. I'm one for accepting good TASes on games people don't like (even if it's not extremely entertaining), but the majority are not.
This game has been known to cause much frustration among gamers. Another reason i think it's a good addition is because it shows proper play to those that may have not understood the game mechanics "back in the day."
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
This movie has only 854 rerecords. Where is Randil when we need a WIP that is X frames faster?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Well you could use the Japanese version, 'cause that version has background music in-game.
You could use all your missiles before the refueling plane, and then have just enough missiles to destroy the target.
I felt a little tired watching this run, it's a meh vote from me.
Sorry,I don't like "Top Gun 1",I think it is slow and not cool:(I hope my "Top Gun 2 100%"(cancelled) will bring you some new funny idea/inspiration.
Well, I can understand you don't like the game. But there are TASes of many bad/less-than-stellar games even on this site. Isn't the point of the site to show TASes, and not necessarily pander only to generally-accepted as liked games?
Uh, he said he doesn't like it, and he thinks it is slow. So no problem there.
Oh, sorry. I got the impression Xipo meant that the actual Top Gun game ITSELF moves slowly and has some downtime... and that he wasn't talking about this run (you'd be hard-pressed to make a much faster run than this in this game).
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
This movie has only 854 rerecords. Where is Randil when we need a WIP that is X frames faster?
This game forces you to move at a set certain speed. Most of the re-records were used for the refueling sequences as well as enemy destruction. As I told NitroGenesis, you'd be hard-pressed to find a much faster run than this. The TAS quality lies in the way the game is completed (kind of like how Track & Field TASes are).
MOST IMPORTANTLY:
Sprites in this game appear at the SAME pixels on the screen no matter which way you are turning, unless there are already sprites on screen as a frame of reference for the game. I cannot throw machine gunfire at an enemy and hit them just as they appear (which would be entertaining), because it is impossible to get the crosshair over to the appearing sprite. For example, if I know an enemy will appear to the right, so I go back a few frames to try to go right and line up a shot that hits them right as they appear, I can try all I want but will NOT be able to. The enemy will always appear right of the crosshair no matter what (The game forces you to go always forward). So unfortunately, no entertainment can be added that way.
If you've ever played the game, you'd know how difficult it is to dodge, let alone destroy, every missile that comes your way since they tend to jump around, there IS some sprite and weapons' sprite popping, and you have to hold "up" or "down" in order to face up or down. Gunfire also gets to be an issue. I first tried an RTS of this game and it was pretty much impossible for me due to the number of enemies, missiles, and gunfire at certain points.
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
Voting yes.
If you've played the game yourself you can understand how frustrating this game is. I thought this TAS did an excellent job of showing a difficult game get crushed. Landing and gassing up sequences were always a pain. Also destroying everything is very impressive.
Unfortunately, I think this submission will have the same fate as some other games. Games in the past have been rejected for poor game choice. I'm one for accepting good TASes on games people don't like (even if it's not extremely entertaining), but the majority are not.
This game has been known to cause much frustration among gamers. Another reason i think it's a good addition is because it shows proper play to those that may have not understood the game mechanics "back in the day."
Haha well thanks for your understanding with this frustrating game... AND for making me feel like an old man with that "back in the day" comment lol
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
I hate this game so much, which is why I'm glad you destroyed it.
Looks good overall. The slowdown seems unavoidable.
Also, the ROM name should be Top Gun (U) (PRG0).
I hate this game so much, which is why I'm glad you destroyed it.
Looks good overall. The slowdown seems unavoidable.
Also, the ROM name should be Top Gun (U) (PRG0).
Yeah I know how you feel. Felt good to tear this game a new one.
Thanks for the ROM info, I changed it.
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
I'm gonna go ahead and vote no.
The gameplay itself wasn't particulary impressive due to the game's lack of goodness. I ended up watching the TAS at 300% but I was still unimpressed. The action/downtime-ratio was very low and the action itself, when happening, was meh at best.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
On the plus side, I got to see that it is in fact possible to land on the aircraft carrier after each mission. I also got to see that one can refuel in mid-flight and there are more than two missions. On the other hand, this was rather boring to watch. And unfortunately, you don't have a character on screen to manipulate/have dance/do something during the downtimes. Voted no for game choice. Thanks for the encode, caitsith2.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
I never played this or Top Gun 2 growing up. I didn't really like Xipo's run of Top Gun 2, and I can't really get through this run either. I know you've done the best you can, but I can't see this game being particularly interesting.
For instance, you mention that the spawn locations of the enemies are fixed. It annoys me that the game has this feature deliberately built in, as it keeps you from doing cool preemptive shots. In general, the problem is that an impressive run doesn't really look all that impressive, and that's the game's fault.
Apart from that, my comments are about the same as others in this thread. Sorry, but I'm also going with No.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Ok,
I seem to be getting lots of negative feedback regarding certain things I anticipated. So I have a question for everyone else:
If I were to redo this TAS doing things like sprite & missile-following on the crosshair (as opposed to meeting the sprite & killing it asap, which is what I did) as much as possible, AS WELL AS using all non-essential missiles before the refueling sequences, would that sway any opinions and make the run more technically acceptable?
I would have to start from scratch, so I'm not going to do it unless people anticipate this would push up the entertainment value enough to accept publishing of the movie.
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
I must be the only one in the world who ever landed on the carrier when he was 9. Witnessed my friend refuel successfully, too. It's not that hard.
Agreement with the rest of the voters, though. It's like watching a really exciting game of professional baseball: there's still absolutely nothing happening 95% of the time. Hate the game, not the player, as it is said.
I decided to cancel this for now because of many complaints about the game's downtime and low-quality action.
I've decided I can clean this up considerably if I do some sprite following, missile following, and maybe some frame-by-frame synchronized movements during the downtime when nothing else is happening.
Also, I am going to use as many missiles as possible, possibly being able to kill more enemies as a bonus, and making it more impressive with the final targets. This will take me a bit longer to produce, but a really good TAS should take more time anyways!
Thanks for the feedback from everyone, I hope the next attempt will be something most everyone can truly enjoy all of.
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again!
Hello Gamerskillsfull, and welcome!
I used to do all the levels in the game just holding the down button. Only things you are looking at can hurt you, so looking straight up works well. Then I'd mess up on the landing and refueling 95% of the time...
In any case, I think a better run of this game will still not be that much more liked. It's just a bad game without much possibility to do something interesting. I suggest you try some other game.
