Legend of Zelda "Swordless" (first quest)

  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Manipulates luck
  • Uses a game restart sequence
  • No deaths
  • No predefined saves
  • Genre: adventure
  • Emulator: FCEUX 2.1.4a
This is a 86.5 second improvement over jprofit22's published movie.

Restrictions

There are two restrictions that this run follows:
  • Don't pick up the sword until all triforce pieces are collected.
  • Only use the sword during the fight against Ganon.

Improvements

jprofit22's level order was very solid. I tested some interesting alternatives, but the level order from the previous TAS turned out to be the fastest. There is a big difference though in how money and items that have to be bought are obtained. After the 30 rupees, Link moves on to the secret 100 rupee den in the top right of the map. With the extra money a candle is bought, and bombs are obtained from an enemy using the candle. This saves both the money and the trip needed to buy bombs. It also avoids gambling altogether (gambling costs more time than you might think, as the old man has to recite his text every time you enter his cave). The place where jprofit22 collected the candle in his TAS was also a little offroute, so time was saved there also.
This route change also had some negative effects. Saving puts back the candle in the inventory, which is why I collected the raft before the level 3 triforce piece. After getting the ladder, I do have to save though, which means an extra weapon switch. It also meant that I had killed one enemy more than jprofit22 at the start of the game. Enemy drops depend heavily on the amount of enemies killed, and not having a sword really limits the possibilities of killing extra enemies. I had a little worse randomness than jprofit22 due to having this extra enemy killed and had to get bombs in rooms where no enemies are usually killed twice.
In total, this 'route change' saved about 35 seconds.
The other ~50 seconds come from optimizations throughout the entire run: better manipulation of the enemies, enemy drops, damage boost, avoiding having to switch weapons, bomb management, etc.
I also picked up one heart container. The positive thing is that you are more flexible with your damage boosts, the negative thing is that you have to fill up four hearts every time you get a triforce (the triforce refills it for you, which costs more time than a damage boost would save). For instance, After the reset before getting the level 4 triforce, having an extra heart container was only bad, as I had to pick up an extra heart which I wouldn't have had to if I only had 3 hearts (resetting starts you off with 3 hearts). The added flexibility however payed off in the end, and I do think having it saved time. I however did not pick up a second heart container in level 6 when I had the chance... I think this would have done more harm than good.
If you want to know more about glitches, techniques, randomness, etc, there is a detailed discussion on it in the Second Quest submission text.

Credits

I want to both thank and apologize to jprofit22. He did a really good job on his TAS, both the planning and execution. I did not plan on TASing this, but when I checked some possibilities at the start of the run, I was hooked. Zelda is one of my favorite games to TAS, and once I found the semi routechange, I wanted to keep going. I couldn't have completed this TAS so quickly without often looking at jprofit22's TAS.
Enjoy!

Flygon: Added YouTube module.

Nach: Accepting as a nice improvement to an existing run.


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 150
tmont wrote:
So this was pretty rad. I don't really like the "don't get the sword until you have to" thing, since it seems arbitrary to me, but whatever. There's not really a better solution. Related to that, how come you don't get the sword at the beginning and then just not use it? Why wait until the end to retrieve the sword? You're already self-imposing the "don't press A until Ganon's room" rule anyway, so why not just self-impose it from the beginning?
It follows the spirit of the old Swordless challenge where you get to Ganon's room without a sword at all. However we would rather see the game completed (instead of just dying or glitching the game to a frozen state). So he grabs the sword at the end and then only uses it to get a complete game. He even refuses to use it to clear the fire at the end.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
nice run and good improvement. yes vote. PS : ereg_replace() is deprecated
Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248
I notice that you do the level 1 glitch, but in level 6 walk right past a key in the open -- at 08:28 in Flygon's encode part 1. Wouldn't it be faster to grab the key in level 6 rather than do the level 1 glitch?
Skilled player (1409)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
rhebus wrote:
I notice that you do the level 1 glitch, but in level 6 walk right past a key in the open -- at 08:28 in Flygon's encode part 1. Wouldn't it be faster to grab the key in level 6 rather than do the level 1 glitch?
I pick up that key at 9:05 in that encode, on my way back from collecting the wand. It's faster to zigzag when going to the upper right, so it was faster not to pick it up the first time when I enterted that room. On the way back, it was directly on my path when walking downwards.
Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248
Baxter wrote:
I pick up that key at 9:05 in that encode, on my way back from collecting the wand.
Oops, so you do. Colour me embarrassed.
snorlax
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Joined: 5/20/2007
Posts: 174
Location: Wisconsin
Yes vote. Now where's that first quest improvement? If you can do this so quickly, I wouldn't think a normal run would take that much longer to create.
mklip2001
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Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
I'd also love to see a first quest improvement, since that run doesn't currently use the overworld glitch (which I imagine would certainly change the route). As for this run, I can't say no to more optimization of an already impressive-looking run. Good job Baxter, and good job again to jprofit22 for setting a high standard to overcome and making most of the route.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Player (51)
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 100
mklip2001 wrote:
I'd also love to see a first quest improvement, since that run doesn't currently use the overworld glitch (which I imagine would certainly change the route). As for this run, I can't say no to more optimization of an already impressive-looking run. Good job Baxter, and good job again to jprofit22 for setting a high standard to overcome and making most of the route.
Relax everyone! It'll be around soon enough. :) And thanks!
Player (51)
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 100
tmont wrote:
Related to that, how come you don't get the sword at the beginning and then just not use it? Why wait until the end to retrieve the sword? You're already self-imposing the "don't press A until Ganon's room" rule anyway, so why not just self-impose it from the beginning?
Also someone (can't remember who) pointed out somewhere (can't seem to find it) that the sword is collected after a reset which is the same as collecting it at the beginning so there's no time lost. I of course agree with the general sentiment that it's much more aesthetically pleasing to complete the majority of the game without anything in the box at all.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Why didn't you pick up those bombs in level 8 that appeared right behind you in the room with a lot of darknuts where you picked up a fairy? Because you don't pick them up you have to stop to kill an enemy later before entering level 2, which definitely looks a lot slower.
Player (51)
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 100
Kyrsimys wrote:
Why didn't you pick up those bombs in level 8 that appeared right behind you in the room with a lot of darknuts where you picked up a fairy? Because you don't pick them up you have to stop to kill an enemy later before entering level 2, which definitely looks a lot slower.
He didnt pick up the bombs there because the hydra boss can only be hit by the wand and it auto switches to the wand when you run out of bombs thus saving a menu screen transition before the boss. He does lose a little time getting the bombs from the blue oktorok but all in all its much preferrable to having to access the menu.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Aah, I see. I knew there must've been a good reason for that. Thanks for the explanation.
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Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Kyrsimys wrote:
Aah, I see. I knew there must've been a good reason for that. Thanks for the explanation.
It's a good explanation, but I have an even better one! The bomb you saw was the bomb I placed (also note the bomb placing sound) to get rid of my last bomb when bombing the wall later on (for the automatic weapon switch). None of the blue darknuts dropped a bomb that I could pick up.
Banned User
Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)
And so, I finally managed to watch the movie in a way that I would approve, I guess. [M]
Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.
Player (51)
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 100
Baxter wrote:
Kyrsimys wrote:
Aah, I see. I knew there must've been a good reason for that. Thanks for the explanation.
It's a good explanation, but I have an even better one! The bomb you saw was the bomb I placed (also note the bomb placing sound) to get rid of my last bomb when bombing the wall later on (for the automatic weapon switch). None of the blue darknuts dropped a bomb that I could pick up.
Lol, I guess I should have watched the part in question before submitting a response! I should have known though since you didn't flip $0050 too often and this would be the only way to get a bomb there (also i remember you taking a fireball boost in the previous darknut room and a boost off one of the ball things in the room right before, both resetting $0050). See what I get for responding to a question when I should be sleeping? lmao
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Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
And so Link brings back peace to Hyrule and asks, "Why is it 'The Legend of Zelda'? I am the hero not her." And it's 85+ seconds faster then before. Go war! GO!
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15541
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1609] NES The Legend of Zelda "Swordless Challenge" by Baxter in 25:13.92
Joined: 12/22/2009
Posts: 291
Location: Michigan
Wow... 85 second improvement? That's impressive.
Current projects: Yoshi's Island Disassembly Yoshi's Island any% TAS with Carl Sagan
Player (51)
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 100
So Baxter gets a moon but i didnt? Hax! lmao (all jokes)
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Console verified. Link to video
true on twitch - lsnes windows builds 20230425 - the date this site is buried
Edward_Stryfe
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Joined: 4/27/2015
Posts: 1
Location: Louisiana, USA
Ok I'm a newb to the TAS scene and generally a let's player kind of guy, but this is extremely impressive. I watched this and started wondering what it would look like if they used an original NES remote and cracked up laughing XD
Have a nice day, ---Edward_Stryfe [align=center] Face the wrath of my sexy army [/align]
mklip2001
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Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
Good point, Edward_Stryfe. I guess the next evolution of these console bots is to make an animatronic robot that actually moves its fingers fast enough to hit buttons with individual frame precision :-) If you check out the input animation gimmicks for some runs like the Megaman X & X2 & X3 triple run, that would be especially crazy for that bot.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.