1 2
22 23 24
27 28
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sorry guys, but I am no longer working in this TAS, I'm just editing the test run, I'll try to apply your suggestions though. /I think I owe a better explanation of why I lost my motivation to TAS this game; every time I save one or two frames, a banana bonus steals those frames along with many more :( I'm still editing my test run, but I'm not going to redo any stage from scratch, just to hand over any saved frame to a lousy banana bonus.
Evil Tompa wrote:
The second bonus in Kreeping Klasps can be entered faster if you drown into the water instead of the path you took into the barrel.
this generates 12 frames of lag, and even worse, Nibbla comes to chomp my ass... the rest of your tips are indeed faster, but I may apply those in a future run, sorry.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
I guess you could still try to optimize this run, keeping the stages as priorities (and not the banana bonus). Even if it is slower than the test run, the stages will all be more optimized in general, generating an overall better quality run.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
that sucks about the banana bonuses… just get a finished product that's better than the test run at least
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thanks guys, I'm also trying to manipulate the banana bonus, but I'll focus more on the stages, the bonus in Fire Frenzy, for example is 10 frames slower, but the stage itself ended 190 frames faster.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Nice, that's a hard stage to optimize, with all the rope zigzagging.
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
A sacrifice near the last rope and a different way to collect the DK coin saved those frames. Demolition Drain Pipe synced with the test run, even playing as Dixie! but I must sacrifice her to reuse Ripsaw Rage. Fortunately the banana bonus here don't need to be manipulated... /Mekanos is done, but it's time to face the most difficult banana bonus of the game; http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/718410875/Dooty-DKC3-105p.smv not only the bananas, but also the barrels must be manipulated, so it may take a while until another wip. //Thank God, only three frames of delay and perfect luck! I just need to take care of Bleak to say farewell to K3. //I'm doing Creepy Caverns at the moment, and I'm pleased with my luck so far, not bad, not bad at all :)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
That's great! Allthough I'm holding myself to only watch this after it is done! Keep up the good work :D
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Okay, but if you change your mind, here's a small update to the "wip"; http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/593829711/Dooty-DKC3-105p.smv sorry about Ropey Rumpus, but it's the best I could do, 64 frames slower... /I'm at Stampede Sprint now, and there's three banana bonus here. so what? well, I'm not going to manipulate them here, instead I'll collect the bananas as fast as I can and call it good, otherwise I'd spend an eternity here, sorry. //not so bad, good luck over all, but Criss Kross Cliffs is giving me a hard time to manipulate.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
Love when luck is actually good to us :) Good luck manipulating Criss Kross Cliffs!
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thankyou SpiDeY, the first possible frame to enter Criss Kross Cliffs, Tyrant Twin Tussle and Swoopy Salvo is not perfect, but waiting is not giving me better luck in any way. on the other hand, the "Boomer Glitch" saved a lot of time! I'm doing Knautilus at the moment, testing a change in the strategy and I'll post the final run in a day or two.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2214)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1941
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
I'm curious to why you fixed the improvement in the second bonus of Bobbing Barrel Brawl, but not the other things mentioned, hmm. I also tried the bonus in Kreeping Klasps that I mentioned. I have managed to get into the bonus 10 frames faster using the method I mentioned. Just jump down in the water as late as possible, fall down the water a little and swim up to avoid the fish and enter the bonus. This is what I made it look like. I did get 8 frames of lag however, some of it can probably be avoided to save even more time. More stuff: It's possible to be closer to the exit in the first bonus in Krevice Keepers, by jumping down as far to the right as you can and turn around quickly to grab the coin. 3 frames (Possibly more) faster. Ok, this improvement is actually quite major... I thought you only took the slow path because it would be easier in the testrun. In Barrel Drop Bounce, when you getting the koin, if you take the steel barrel and jump down to the left instead of going to the right, you'll be able to save over 100 frames. My quick test got me 101 frames faster, but there's more than that to save. First bonus in Lemguin Lunge, you can roll into the last penguin that jump up from the hole. Saving you 6 frames. Creepy Caverns. After you get Squitter you jumped into a barrel later on. If you wait a bit on the web before you jump, you can use another web to skip the barrel. Saving you around 30 frames. I managed to save about 10 frames at the Koin Lightning Look-Out, but I'm unable to keep them because of the lightning being in the way :/. It involved letting the lightning hit the bird with the barrel instead of jumping on it. If the bird turns around before the lightning hits it, the barrel will fall on its right side instead of left. Good going with the run, good luck with the last world.
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
wow, thats quite a lot of improvements! but I'll not be able to implement them all by myself, even reusing almost everything I did, it's still lots of work to make it sync, redo the banana bonuses and boss battles, unless someone join me to redo the movie, I'll leave it like that.
Tompa wrote:
why you fixed the improvement in the second bonus of Bobbing Barrel Brawl
no, I didn't, it's still the same as in the previous wip. /hey, wait a minute, your improvements, they gave me better luck with some of the banana bonuses! never mind what I said before, I'll implement them right away, I don't want this run to be submited with so many mistakes, thankyou Tompa.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Active player (279)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Go go gadget Dooty! I'll make an encode of the next WIP if that's ok, would be good for anyone interested to see the progress. Good luck all!
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thankyou, I'm redoing the whole thing, but I need an extra motivation; my nickname on the credits! so, here's the deal; the nickname is now Dooty. all of Tompa's improvements will be present. ElectroSpecter suggested to not collect the Bear Coin in Murky Mill, I'll do this. I'll try to manipulate the Banana Bonuses better, it's not so hard after all. and most important; I'll not post wips, otherwise Tompa will find more improvements! (just kidding, I'll post a new wip after each boss battle)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
good luck Dooty :)
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thankyou, I just finished my previous attempt; http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1673193526/Dooty-DKC3-105p.smv it's not simple to redo a game like that, so if there's some more mistakes, please, point them out and I'll try to fix. /but, if you guys think it's not necessary to redo the run because of some frames, I won't complain :)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 1/22/2008
Posts: 319
Location: Brasil
ok
Run..Run...Run.....
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Dooty wrote:
ElectroSpecter suggested to not collect the Bear Coin in Murky Mill, I'll do this.
The reason: Since it costs the same amount of frames to grab the very visible one in Doorstop Dash, collecting this one instead of the one in Murky Mill will simply create less confusion with viewers. Otherwise they will see the player roll right under an easily grabbable coin.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
So, Rocket Barrel Rush (sorry Tompa, I know you were going to say something about this too). I don't know if you (Dooty) already know this, but, on the descent, killing the bees with the side rockets will save a lot of time instead of killing them with the flame on the bottom of the barrel. I suggest watching the y-speed address (7E0914) here (if you're using Dixie in the lead, use her y-speed address instead). It maxes out at 896. Using the side thrusters before it maxes out will cause it to pause its acceleration, so you shouldn't move left or right until it maxes out (this is possible just before the first bee; it's pretty easy to max). After this, moving left or right and / or burning bees with the side thrusters doesn't affect the falling speed, so you're pretty much free after that. Also, Tompa, it looks like bumping into an enemy doesn't speed things up after all, though it may appear so (the camera moves up, making the barrel look like it's going down faster). I just did a really quick barely optimized run and was able to attain max falling speed as soon as possible and keep it maxed all the way to the bottom. However (and this is Tompa's suggestion), you should do some testing with hitting either the final bee or the final couple bees with the main flame under the barrel. This will preemptively slow you down for when you collect the fuel barrels that make you go up the right side of the level. Otherwise you'll hit the bottom. Again, I was able to do this fairly easily. It will require some testing though.
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thank you ElectroSpecter, looks like a restart of the run is really needed, there's too much mistakes to ignore. /um... would you mind to send me your test of this stage? I'm trying, but I'm always crashing if I don't slow down :(
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Dooty wrote:
Thank you ElectroSpecter, looks like a restart of the run is really needed, there's too much mistakes to ignore. /um... would you mind to send me your test of this stage? I'm trying, but I'm always crashing if I don't slow down :(
Sure, give me a bit and I'll see what I can come up with. EDIT: Here is a test run I just made, using your latest WIP. The only time I had to purposely slow down was right at the end (or else I would have crashed). Remember that you can slow down yourself without using the bees too, with the L+R shoulder buttons both pressed in. The slowest speed you can go (without hitting bees) is 134. If you hold L+R as mentioned, the rocket approaches this speed in increments of 6 (per frame). Obviously, hitting the barrel at the bottom at full speed will cause you to hit the ground below it, losing time. The obvious solution to this would be to start slowing down at such a time where the y speed hits a low of 134 the exact frame you hit the barrel and start going up. However, once you hit this barrel, your y speed decreases by 10 per frame (and then goes into the negatives when your barrel starts going up). Therefore there's probably a certain speed in between 896 and 134 at which you want to hit that barrel. It's definitely closer to 134, but it's going to take some testing to determine (I will do so, if you want). Ah, another Edit: don't bump the bees. It causes lag frames. Hopefully final edit for this post: It looks like it is indeed fastest to hit the barrel right when your speed hits 134 (meaning it'll decrease like ...146, 140, 134, 124, 114...) I changed the .smv file to show this.
Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2214)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1941
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Time for some more improvements :). The biggest timesaver is what Specter just wrote about. I think it is something like 400 frames faster than it was in your run. It is not perfect though. I had a better angle, in my testrun, down into the hole with the barrel that blasts you up, and Specter didn't care to enter the barrel fast at the start, so that's another 3 frames at least. I do have two other things I noticed while watching: During the first King K Rool (Even though his name is Baron something in this game, but I don't care:D) fight, if you take some more distance when doing the roll to the coin, you'll get some more speed, falling more to the left so the cutscene can start earlier. I made it 14 frames faster. SMV The second bonus in Criss Kross Cliffs. I changed the strategy in that bonus to save 83 frames. The last time I did the bonus I used a teamthrow strategy to hit the enemies from distance, I didn't experience with that now however, it is somewhat close in time so if perfected, it could be faster. SMV
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thanks a lot! I was doing it all wrong... /Okay, after all those time savers, the use of a particular nickname makes no sense, so; the nickname will be the default, Dixie. Tompa's and ElectroSpecter's improvements will be in. and most important; I'll post wips more often, so you guys can point possible improvements. //hey, a time saver right at the beginning; (aka "another mistake") in Wrinkly's Save Cave it's not needed to wait for the "ding" sound. what's needed then? when you enter the cave for the second time, she can't say "Helo there, it's me - Mrs. Wrinkly Kong!", 65 frames faster! ///here's the first wip, but regrettably the banana bonus here will be slower; http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1446473191/Dooty-DKC3-105p.smv but not much, I'm doing lots of tests to find the best possible luck on Riverside Race.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Player (117)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
Looking great so far! keep up the good work Dooty!
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 21
Hoping to see this run soon, although I'd rather see it done right than be rushed for completion's sake. Great work so far guys.
1 2
22 23 24
27 28