Editor, Experienced player (885)
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Playing this game brings back memories from the PS2 port. I don't know if it might make a good TAS with all the slow walking, but I have been a bad enough dude to try to find glitches from it at least. So far I've got two promising finds: 1, doing a glitch attack without animation (switching from 'missile'-type magic to melee at 16 frames after pressing A - enemy in front of you gets hit as if you attacked normally. This is faster than normally attacking, and it can be buffered into a normal attack the same frame you weapon switch. Another variation is switching 20 frames after pressing A to use your sword or fist to switch to bow and shoot an unexplainable arrow, although this is slower than just using your bow. I haven't tried all attacks yet, so even more damaging variations might be possible...) 2, glitched character start-up stats. Re-wrote this part due to finding out more about how it works. This seems to be timing/lag/frame specific - in the character menu, put in the stats you want, then when it asks you to 'validate', cancel. Then, cancel again at the correct time with your cursor placed on the class you wish to glitch into. Instead of going to main menu the game starts, but your character class is "wrong". For example, I made a fighter who had all the wizard's skills. This is advantageous in the sense that wizard's mp cap is nerfed, and by doing this you can start a wizard who has almost three times the maximum mp. Using this you can also start the game without having to put in 12 skill points on your character, if that ever came in handy somehow.
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I dont know if this happens with the PSX part, but I remember for the Gamecube, there is a neat little option called "load character," because with this you can dupe items.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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The GBA version of this game is pretty stripped down: only one save slot, no such thing as character porting (as far as I know)... To me it seems that all level items are fixed and unmanipulable (like contents of barrels). However, enemy item drops can be manipulated to some extent. Too bad this game has an awfully slow item/menu screen, and thus you have to be extra careful on what to pick up and what to equip. Critical hits and status effect inflections can be controlled to some extent. They are determined by some number which changes every few seconds, apparently. Haven't done detailed research on this. A poison weapon could become very powerful in the hands of a skilled luck manipulator. One drawback of a bow character is that you are dependant on arrows which have to be physically picked up or bought from the store. Walking to the store is slow, opening up item pick-up menu is slow... the wizard manages without either pretty well. One thing archer does have going on for him is the Combat Reflexes which at max level speeds down your melee hits by 25%, potentially saving a lot of frames in the process. And maybe Shock Arrows which allows substantial damage a lot earlier than the wizard can get his most powerful attack. Too bad there isn't a skill to improve your walking speed... Seems that melee hits do their damage during only 1 frame. After this frame, the attack can be safely canceled by blocking or switching weapons to start a new one extra quick. Magics resolve some frames quicker than melee hits, and the attack cancel trick I mentioned in the first post can be used to speed melee up further. However... at least in the beginning of the game, Burning Hands is speed-wise going to rule over melee because of your precise control over damage output. Then again, it is a bit of a double edged sword. Magics never miss, but melee can inflict statuses and have critical hits. If luck manipulation turns out to be easier than I suppose it is, melee will be an invaluable asset, at least, even when playing with a wizard. Tried to do some random glitches like messing up saving or dying. You can activate most B-button prompts while dying, but that doesn't help you at all. You can gain a level after death if you get reward exp from a conversation, which brings you back to life, but nothing special other than that happens. If you do this at the last frame possible, you get a game over regardless. The "fighter" with wizard skills (detailed in first post) is the one I would use for a TAS of this game, although it might have difficulties doing damage to enemies towards the end of Act I. I assume Lightning Bolt is the most powerful thing he has got in store, but before getting it there are many levels to trudge through using just Burning Hands and melee (unless you sacrifice skill points for other magics). The best thing about this build is that you are materially pretty independent. You have a glitched amount of mp, which helps with regeneration and I don't think a TAS precise caster will run out of mp that often. No need for arrows or even armor that much since you are not going to get hit. Or, well, this is my interpretation which might be overly reckless. With a decent lag problem and lots of slow walking I still don't think this is the best game possible for a TAS, but there would probably be many impressive moments throughout...
Joined: 4/29/2005
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The Sorceress would be a poor choice for a Speed Run or TAS. She wouldn't really get any worthwhile spells over the course of a TAS. Not unless you plan to grind a ton of enemies. Your best bet would either be the Fighter or the Ranger. But let's face it. Later on you'll be so under leveled, that one hit likely WILL kill you. And...Lightning Bolt isn;t that great. Lightning Ball is way better if that spell happens to be in this version of the game. It can take down several enemies in a single cast. But...Last I checked, in the PSX/GC versions of the game, the final boss is immune to most, if not all spells. So, really, the Sorceress has her downsides for a run of this game. But if her level gets high enough, she can be your most powerful character in the game. You might wanna see if there is a boss faq for this version of the game on gamefaqs, maybe the final boss has a weakness to a certain spell.
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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To stress, the GBA port of this game is stripped down. There's no more "sorceress", it's just a wizard now, and the three classes are the same but palette-swapped. It has a completely different game engine as well. Admittedly, it's a long time since I last played the PS2 game and I'm only half-way through this port (at the end of act 2). My plans only account the first half of the game so far. If the last boss (and other later bosses) are indeed immune to magics, it's going to heavily dip the scales against the wizard. Lightning Bolt is the last spell wizard gets, and according to one of the FAQs at GameFAQs, it's "by far" the best spell he has. I put my hopes on it...
Joined: 4/29/2005
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I would totally skip over the Wizard, then. Lioghtning Bolt is likely going to be very mana consuming in a TAS, and unless you plan to manipulate Mana Potions from every kill, I don't think you're going to make it very far. I would go for the Ranger, like the speed run of one of the home console versions did on SDA. Arrows are probably easier to manipulate, and will probably deal more damage in the long run as long as you can manipulate a powerful bow to drop every now and then.
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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Picking up anything takes about 70 frames due to the slowness of the item window, and so, I would prefer a character who is (as said) as materially independent as possible, with no need to stop to pick things up repeatedly during the run, whether they be arrows or potions. Either a melee class or the mana-glitched wizard... I played on with the mage to Act II start, and now I finally have the fear-inspiring Lightning Bolt. Well, it's not a let-down, although it's different from what I had expected. It's a "spray"-type magic like Burning Hands or Snowblind, although it has a lot bigger range (can hit outside screen), it homes somewhat to enemies, it stuns them and deals moderately nice damage too (72/sec) (and strangely, doesn't waste too much mana). It shares the same weakness as the other spray magics: it can only hit 1 target at once. So it's weak against groups. And in a TAS, where I expect you literally run past everything - it's possible so far, at least - you will likely not get this move until a lot later, if at all. Fortunately melee is a viable alternative (melee attacks hit everyone in a group) since you can buy the Masterwork Great Sword of Speed (20-48) from the A2 shop (for a hefty 25198 gold though... potentially about 1000 gold less if you upgrade charisma during one of the level ups). It seems to be very effective against gnolls. It's by far the strongest weapon at this point of the game, although to get it in a TAS, you got to pick up some expensive magical items here and there to sell at the shop. Beating Xantham gives you a new bow, a sword and 900 gold which combine to about 5000-6000 gold already, so it's not that bad. For the record, this is a weapon I would pick up with the fighting classes as well. Although: there is a possibility that the sword is actually unnecessary, if later on you will get an even better one with less hardship (like from a barrel) and there aren't many mandatory enemies before that point. For the Act I latter half... Magic Missile is a powerhouse I didn't expect it to be. At level 3 (taking 6 skill points to get there, which is exactly how much we can spare if we wan't Lightning Bolt at lv. 9) it deals 30 damage consistently if all 3 missiles hit, even to the Orb and Xantham, and that's a lot better than with any of the other more expensive missile-type magics at low levels. It also costs mere 4 mp per cast. However, there's a small cooldown after each cast which is a bit of a hindrance, but you can combine melee in these breaks for some additional damage. We'll see how well one could fare with just magic missiles and the Great Sword as I progress into the mountains next. EDIT: So, the expensive sword is not really necessary after all, I think. There's only one mandatory fight in the forest, to get the cage key, and only one to three gnolls have to be killed. Sword might make it slightly faster, but if you had to go out of your way to gather money for it in the first place, it's probably not worth it. In the mountains there's 0 mandatory fights, although it's arguable whether you should grind slightly at this point. Magic missile works oddly well in the mountains for killing things 99% safely - the foes there are so big that it's easy to have all the missiles hit. You can effortlessly pick up expensive items from slain enemies (one particular enemy drops a sword that gives 4750 when sold with 13 charisma), and that might come in handy... I don't know what kind of cool stuff the act III store has to offer, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be very expensive. Once inside the mines you will become overwhelmed without something stronger. Lightning Bolt works like a charm, Missiles... not so. Trying to melee the drows seems slightly desperate, although it would be possible, if arduous, in TAS conditions. EDIT 2: After getting Lit. Bolt, the rest of the game was a breeze. After upgrading Lit. Bolt, it even gets an area effect so that it is not useless against groups. It does drain mana more than what is comfy, especially on low level settings, but that's what replenish pots are for (which, by the way, one probably should hoard from Act 2 or 3 stores). Now all we need is a decent grinding spot, and the overall strategy is set. While the Act III shop has some intriguing items, at least a wizard does not need much from there, except possibly the +4 int amulet. I'm really torn between whether the character should do any melee later on in the game or not. There exists exploits against most bosses which makes them sitting ducks for your spells - running enemies can be tricked into harmlessly running towards you, never reaching their destination. Melee enemies can be fooled by going just far enough from them to stay out of their reach. They keep hitting at nothingness. Even the final boss has a severe A.I. failure if you just walk behind the staircase you came through - she tries to walk through it or something, and her projectile is the only threatening thing about her after that. The elven warrior you unlock after finishing the game is an interesting case. He starts with burning hands and magic missile, making him a very viable early game killing machine. Alternatively, you can pump up his starting str to 19, unlike with any other char, and utilize his melee skills and be very effective in melee. I envision a run using him to start the game with him as a caster, later turning him to a fighter.
Joined: 4/29/2005
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You should try to manipulate some good items to drop for you if you can, like +4-+5 Rejuvenation rings or something. The extra mana regen will help some if the items exist.
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How annoying... tried to submit another long~ish post but it failed and all the text disappeared. Well, here's a re-cap. Int or rejuv items will come in handy, but I don't yet know which ones are more handy. I did a test with the high level character I had. The time period between his magic regens was 111 frames. After getting additional +4 rejuv, the time period dropped into 94 frames. However, I think int items not only increase your energy but also give you a similar kind of rejuv effect... some tests are still in order. I started a (test) TAS of this game, but there's still not much to talk about since I'm only 37 secs in (inside first dungeon, the cellar). It's a mana-glitched wizard with whom I don't plan on doing melee later on at all. He has 14 str so that you can kill the first rats with only two hits, max int, max wis (however, I still don't know perfectly how exp matters turn out with this character) and the rest into con. I'll put up a WIP once I'm further in the game. EDIT: Alright, here's a WIP to the end of the first dungeon, completed in 1min 23 sec. It was fortunate I noticed early that you literally only have to kill the rats from the cellar to get the quest. I have to waste a few frames to get the quest trigger, then I save warp out of the cellar. Regarding the rat kills, well, I tried to adapt. Sometimes randomness didn't allow either flaming effect from BH or critical hits (or even hits per se). All known melee enhancing tricks were used to cut tens of frames here and there. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/737524099/Baldur%27s%20Gate%20-%20Dark%20Alliance%20%28USA%29.vbm EDIT 2: Here's a WIP where I get to the north sewers and get to lv. 2, rounding up to a bit over three minutes. I've realized that the kobolds give relatively nice exp, they're going to be abundant in the next area and they die if you just manage to get them burning. So, it's 60-70 exp per 1 measly attack (20-25 frames). I must get to at least lv. 3 or 4 before the end of south sewers or else my Magic Missiles are weak and lots of time won't be saved, so expect to see lots of enemies burning to death in the next part... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1871624630/Baldur%27s%20Gate%20-%20Dark%20Alliance%20%28USA%29%20%28north%20seweriin%29.vbm Encode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUKC-3sr5qQ
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I'm watching the test WIP now. :3 Edit: Personally, I think the Intelligence does give you extra mana regen, but not as much as Rejuv gear. You can also purchase a talent that increases your base mana regen, too. Though I'm not sure if it would help a whole lot in a TAS. I'm thinking this TAS will be close to, if not over an hour in length, depending on how much there is to this game. I did play this some last year. But as I said in my last post, if you can, manipulate some good rejuv gear to drop. I think you can equip two rings and an amulet, and in a low level run, that may be all you need to keep your mana up. And they do stack. :3
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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I noticed with my high level character that int bonuses start becoming exponentially more useful when you are at a higher level. I think I was nearing 500 energy towards the end of the game, which is a lot. However, since we're stuck at a low level during the TAS - I don't think there's a reason to level up beyond lv. 9 - rejuv might be more useful in a long run. On the other hand... after lv. 9, you won't kill except sporadically, so it might be more handy to have a bigger max energy than be able to rejuvinate fast. Questions, questions... You don't necessarily need to manipulate rejuv rings or amus, since you can find a good set 100% certainly from the barrels during the mountain section... I think I wrote down where exactly, hopefully you don't have to go too far out of your way to get there... Well, not too far away if I recall correctly, both +2 ring and amu. Also, as I mentioned, at act III start you can get a + 4 int amu from the store. Hmm, now I wonder if the act II store sold any good amulets... I noticed that turning in certain ways while using Burning Hands allows you to manipulate the 'burn' effect which is a very handy time saver. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same memory address which calculates criticals in normal melee. With this knowledge, I think I could've made the first rat encounters a bit faster... however, I think I'm still going to press onward to see how the rest of my strategy will fare in the later stages of the game. This is a test TAS of sort after all. >>You can also purchase a talent that increases your base mana regen, too. You are talking about Meditation? We'll see if we got enough points for that after lv. 9. Although Willpower is the one I favor in my mind for again increasing the actual max energy. EDIT: I've continued the run to the first locked door at N. Sewers, total time 4 mins. I don't think there will be any exp problems in a while at least, but I'm now going for trying to get lv. 3 M. Missiles before fighting bugbears in S. Sewer, simply because it saves many seconds per fight. I've noted a few save warping strategies in the upcoming areas, gotta love it. I would've personally thrown a guess of about 50 minutes for the total length of the run. I'm curious whether the glitched character class thing is caused by lag, and if so, are there other lag glitch possibilities in this game? EDIT 2: Continued the run to after getting the first key in S. Sewers, total time 7: 37. Mmm... going to post a wip after having dealt with this place, mmmkay? I've changed my strategy by switching to lv. 2 M. Missile early to be able to one-shot kobolds, who I believe are the most time/cost effective for exp at this stage.
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Hey, awesome. :3 Magic Missile is my favorite spell in any given DnD based game. xD
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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Latest WIP: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1998952536/Baldur%27s%20Gate%20-%20Dark%20Alliance%20%28USA%29%20%28level%204%29.vbm Encode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHKjlHuQbDs Imagine about 50 minutes of this, with slightly varying tactics, locales and enemies. Will it make a good enough TAS? I still can't say. All I know is that the M. Missile trickery looks cool. About stat point allocation. If I put it to wis, it might mean less leveling later. On these first enemies, 1 additional wis means about 3 more exp per a kill. In the mines it will mean 7-10 more exp per kill. It's not much. Maybe 1 or 2 enemies less to kill in the entire run. If I put it to int instead, it will come in handy no matter what. Con is a wildcard. Having more health means that you have to dodge less, so I dunno... at this rate, I'll die very easily in the later stages of the game, but it's a TAS so I think it doesn't matter too much. Right now I'm leaning towards int.
Joined: 4/29/2005
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I say skip Consitution, since casters aren't meant to take a blow, anyway. And extra experience points probably won't matter much either. I say go for Intelligence. Extra Mana and mana Regen. Edit: The WIP is looking very polished so far. But if you're going to continue on with Magic Missile until you get the Loightning Bolt spell, you're definately going to need more mana regen. Otherwise, you'll be needing a few mana potions.
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I came to this thread to say continue this run... but then I saw all the creatures you were murdering were kobolds... shudder... Anyway, looks like it will be a good run.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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I've continued the run a bit up to where you have to defeat the evil orb. There's a new trick which may allow a better exping strategy for getting to lv. 9: defeating a boss, then saving at the exact same frame you get the victory exp. You get the exp, but after you load game the boss is still there and can be re-killed. I've only tested this against the orb boss so far, though. This would probably be most worth it against Xantham, who gives 3000 something exp if I recall correctly. The orb boss gives about 1200 exp. Although, Magic Missile and its cooldown period favors more streamlined leveling... EDIT: I'm fearing running out of magic in the upcoming section, so I've manipulated a +1 rejuv ring from a zombie.
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Probably best to save that trick for Xantam, then.
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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I've looked into the memory addresses of this game with the VBA 23.4, and found x- and y-coordinate addresses, x- and y- subpixels (if I'm correct) and health and magic regen counters. Now, the address for critical hits... this might suck. I haven't progressed with this run much, but might continue it now with the other runs out of the way. EDIT: At the start of the game, at int. 18, one rejuvenation cycle takes 273 frames. +1 rejuv shortened it to 264 frames, and that is where I am at now. Intelligence affects rejuvenation, but apparently not very dramatically. The one level-up int. point I put on my character earlier in the run had no effect... If you start the game with 15 int., your rejuv cycle takes 283 frames instead. If you start the game with 8 int, it's 293 frames. The effect might increase at higher int. levels, or there may be some breakpoints to int. affecting rejuvenation.
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
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I hate to nitpick, but would you please remove that "third wip up" part from the topic header? The game name is sufficent and people are informed about new posts by the forum software, so people who are interested can check just easily check the thread for your progress. If someone wants to use this thread in the future, it would still have that "run status is x" there, which would then be confusing. Sure I could edit it myself, but then you wouldn't be able to edit the first post.
Joined: 4/29/2005
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AKheon wrote:
I've looked into the memory addresses of this game with the VBA 23.4, and found x- and y-coordinate addresses, x- and y- subpixels (if I'm correct) and health and magic regen counters. Now, the address for critical hits... this might suck. I haven't progressed with this run much, but might continue it now with the other runs out of the way. EDIT: At the start of the game, at int. 18, one rejuvenation cycle takes 273 frames. +1 rejuv shortened it to 264 frames, and that is where I am at now. Intelligence affects rejuvenation, but apparently not very dramatically. The one level-up int. point I put on my character earlier in the run had no effect... If you start the game with 15 int., your rejuv cycle takes 283 frames instead. If you start the game with 8 int, it's 293 frames. The effect might increase at higher int. levels, or there may be some breakpoints to int. affecting rejuvenation.
You ought to test what it would do with good regen gear like a necklace and two rings, just to see what's faster.
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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I'm almost at the end of Act I, with only Xantham remaining as an obstacle. Movie length is a bit over 16 minutes now. I'm estimating that Act II will be the shortest act (due to a few nice save warping strategies) and Act III will be about as long as Act I, if not a bit longer. The battle against orb and the undead was very annoying, but I don't think I did too bad. The lag is overbearing in this section, and some of it could probably be manipulated away in a better world. A silly thing which I didn't test: whether it would be faster to reach the sewer which takes you to Thieves Guild walking from below or above the building that's in the way. In this run I go from below. Karne can be got stuck so that he tries to run through you and never teleports during the fight (a freak occurence I witnessed once... I recorded a short .vbm of the event if someone needs it), but I couldn't get it to happen here. Here's the new WIP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kadu0AXxQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0w38ogw8CM VBM By the way, I tried both with VBA21 and a newer version, but attempting to encode the .vbm always resulted in a crash at the first Thieves Guild corridor. Some sort of glitch in VBA? So, that section was omitted from the encoding here.
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Ooh, nice WIPs. :3 Sorry for my silence, I just haven't been paying much attention to topics on here lately until now. Just letting you know I haven't lost interest in this. :3
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2159)
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AKheon wrote:
By the way, I tried both with VBA21 and a newer version, but attempting to encode the .vbm always resulted in a crash at the first Thieves Guild corridor. Some sort of glitch in VBA? So, that section was omitted from the encoding here.
It didn't crash for me, but I didn't try to encode from the start of the vbm. If the crash only occurs that way, the cause of the crash might be the inconsistence in frame timing when reset is involved. A workaround for now would be to split the encodes at the reset points...
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Editor, Experienced player (885)
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I went and tried out this game on VBA-rr v24. It runs much better on it, with at least three times less lag. So, once I finish this test run (wonder when that'll be?), I should start anew on the v24. I guess I feel slightly more motivated to continue now that I know there won't be as much lag awaiting as before.
Joined: 4/29/2005
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It's been a while since anyone has posted in this thread. Is the run still active or is it dead?