Mega Man 10 TAS is complete!
Mega Man - Normal Mode in 33:42.37 (20:04 in game time)Bass - Hard Mode in 28:18.25 (15:16 in game time)
Not sure why there isn't a thread for this game yet. Probably because of the general lack of interest Mega Man 9 TAS recieved. The tools are available but its not perfect. Will this disqualify it from appearing on TASVideos?
Regardless, I went ahead and TAS'd a Chill Man run on Mega Man 10. I set the time trial record at 1:30.08 and I wanted to see how far off from perfect my run was.
I used the Dolphin r7060 and managed to bring Chill Man's time down to 1:29.15. Next I'll be doing Nitro Man for the same reason, and then I'll probably do a full run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-obTScAzrLA
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Actually, there is a little bit of interest in MM10: Me and AngerFist are planning to do a run as soon as Dolphin is accepted at the site. We've been having occasional chats on it on IRC.
A thread wasn't made yet because there wasn't anything major to make a thread about yet.
I think that we'll use Proto Man in our run, because the slide and charged shot help immensely to save several minutes of time, and also has a Jet right away so Blade Man can be done earlier.
As for a route, we aren't sure yet. I'm thinking of Chill Man > weakness order, right now.
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I watched your run, it looked pretty meh as far as TAS gameplay goes, entertainment-wise. You basically used Triple Blade anywhere where you didn't use something else to speed up movement. That would look impressive in a regular speedrun, but not in a TAS. Mega Man 10's greatest benefit of TASing is the ability to juggle weapons almost freely, and that should be put to maximum use in a TAS for entertainment.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I've never actually TAS'd before but I have seen several videos and I know exactly what you're talking about. Since this was just a single stage I wasn't too worried about entertainment value, but I did use the Chill Spike during the last part for just that reason. I really just wanted to see fast I could clear the stage with ideas I was never able to implement in my speedrun. The record videos for Nitro Man and Chill Man are on my channel and I do more messing around in those (rhythm shooting, killing extra enemies, etc). This is because after hundreds (if not thousands) of replays I've gotten some parts down to almost muscle memory.
Thanks for the tip, though. I'll keep that in mind when I TAS the full game for real. I never thought of doing Protoman, and I probably still wont. What appeals to me most about this game is the simplicity. As in, the lack of slide and charge shot. Protoman brings those back and adds more complexity to the mix. So I'll probably just stick with a straight Mega Man TAS.
Chill => weakness is definitely the way to go with DLC.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Continuing further on the Proto Man run idea, I've thought of another potential route: doing Commando Man first, followed by Chill Man > Nitro Man > Blade Man > weakness order. Commando Man appears to have an invincibility bug where he does not gain invincibility in the air - which means that he can be shot down quickly with rapid bustering.
It seems that Commando Bomb would be very helpful to save time in Chill Man's stage to break the ice, but on the other hand I lose time from not having Nitro Wheel in one screen in Commando's stage (Proto Man starts with a jet, so that's not an issue) or on the boss, which would lose me a bunch of frames.
Thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I see where you're going but the Ballade Cracker is more than capable of clearing any ice blocks because of its directional shooting. As far as Commando Man's invincibility exploit, I think this is only advantageous when you have his weakness weapon. I could be wrong, though. I haven't tried to TAS his fight yet but the buster might not be enough.
I was pondering a little bit over running with Proto Man and I had a thought. Why exactly are you using Proto Man? His jet, slide, and charge shot help, sure... but if you're going for the absolute minimum possible time through the game, wouldn't this be with Bass's dash on easy mode?
I'm guessing if Bass, Protoman, and MegaMan are all different enough runs through the main game, that they'd all have a chance of getting accepted here.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
diggidoyo wrote:
I see where you're going but the Ballade Cracker is more than capable of clearing any ice blocks because of its directional shooting.
Except Proto Man doesn't have Ballade Cracker, and I'd do the run from clear SRAM, so no DLC.
diggidoyo wrote:
I was pondering a little bit over running with Proto Man and I had a thought. Why exactly are you using Proto Man? His jet, slide, and charge shot help, sure... but if you're going for the absolute minimum possible time through the game, wouldn't this be with Bass's dash on easy mode?
You need DLC to play as Bass, and I want to start from a clean save. Proto Man is much, much faster than Mega Man, which is why I choose him.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Ah, I thought you were running with DLC because of Chill Man as your starting point and the fact that screw crusher deals 2 damage to him.
As I said before, I'll probably stick to just Mega Man with DLC. The only problem I see right now is recording. I'm not sure if this feature is complete yet on the dolphin. I can save .dtm files but I'm not sure how to view them. For the time trials, I TAS the stage and then reload the replay and record it with a separate program/device. This wont work for a full game run because there is no replay.
I just finished a Nitro Man TAS, as well. I used my camera to record which sacrifices quality but it plays at the full 60 fps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QqLvOS7R5E
I meant the gameplay, not the video. With Fraps the game bogs to 45-50fps but the music still plays as normal. With a camera, both are shown at full speed. And the human record (set by me) is within a second for Nitro Man becuase I abuse pausing. Entering commands in between pauses slows down the game enough to make nearly TAS like times. But there's no save stating or frame advances so there's alot more room for error. Chill Man's boss fight will never be done on a console how I do in the TAS, however, so my record is about a second and a half away.
On another note, I managed to cut even more time off of Chill Man's stage. I'm surprised Rockmanda missed so much when he TAS'd this level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYViCBev1JE
@Mothrayas
Could you tell me if I did a little better as far as entertainment goes?
I see where you're going but the Ballade Cracker is more than capable of clearing any ice blocks because of its directional shooting.
Except Proto Man doesn't have Ballade Cracker, and I'd do the run from clear SRAM, so no DLC.
diggidoyo wrote:
I was pondering a little bit over running with Proto Man and I had a thought. Why exactly are you using Proto Man? His jet, slide, and charge shot help, sure... but if you're going for the absolute minimum possible time through the game, wouldn't this be with Bass's dash on easy mode?
You need DLC to play as Bass, and I want to start from a clean save. Proto Man is much, much faster than Mega Man, which is why I choose him.
Sorry but what dos DLC have to do with clean SRAM or a clean save?
It's stuff that gets installed alongside the gam into the Wiis Nand. It has nothing to do with saves.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
diggidoyo wrote:
@Mothrayas
Could you tell me if I did a little better as far as entertainment goes?
It's much better, it's very good actually. That's exactly the kind of weapon variety that a TAS of a game like MM10 needs. Nice job on that.
@Slowking:
Yes, but the content isn't available right away when you first start the game, right?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Thanks, yea its also fun finding unique ways around obstacles.
So, I want to make sure I got this right... A run with DLC wouldn't be accepted on TAS videos so I shouldn't even practice running with it?
I can see why... since DLC weapons require beating the respective bosses to obtain. Even though they are available from then on at the start of a new game, technically the time spent obtaining them would have to count towards your final clear time.
Bass on the other hand, is available as soon as the .wad is uploaded, so his use is a little more ambiguous.
Just want to make sure I have my facts straight before I go breaking down my strategies. I want to run with Mega Man so would my best bet be running w/out DLC?
Bass on Hard Mode would look pretty cool, though. lol
And how do we record these all clear TAS's without in-game replays?
Anyone have an answer for recording all-clear runs? I'm using the dolphin and it frame advances and save/load states perfectly but how the heck do I watch the replay? For the time trials, I just finished the level, and recorded the in-game replay with my camera or Fraps. But this is not possible outside of time trials.
I just ran through Pump Man's stage with Bass as a test (wasn't trying to hard to be perfect) and even using his crappy auto-buster, I managed a 1:01 save. I'm sure under a minute is possible, but what good is it if I can't even watch him go? Anyone out there with more Dolphin experience that can help me?
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7199/basspump.png
Wily Stage 4 done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58S1Up7k6vM
13 second improvement over Rockmanda's run mostly thanks to the Triple Blade. I had to be frugal with it at the end, or else I would have spammed it on Wily as well.
What do you mean old? I didn't invent it, if that's what you mean. I saw Rockmanda do it once so I tried abusing it and it saved almost a full second by the time I got to the top.
I really want to do a full game run but I can only do Time Trials at the moment. After a time trial, I can play back the in-game replay and record that with my camera or fraps. But a full game run doesn't have any replay and I want to watch it when its done, not just see my time.
I can get Dolphin recording and replaying to work as long as I don't use any save states. But I'm having trouble recording after loading a save state. While watching the movie, everything from the beginning of the movie up to the save state is perfect. But after the loaded state, the inputs are advanced or delayed or something because the end result is my character running, jumping, and shooting haphazardly because my recorded inputs do not match his current location.
If anyone has any fixes for me, I will run a full game.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
diggidoyo wrote:
Wily Stage 4 done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58S1Up7k6vM
13 second improvement over Rockmanda's run mostly thanks to the Triple Blade. I had to be frugal with it at the end, or else I would have spammed it on Wily as well.
Wow, nice.
Can you elaborate how invincibility works on the MM10 bosses? It seems to be messed up in some parts, most notably Commando Man in the air, but also near the end of Nitro Man and Blade Man fights I see you using Triple Blade to finish it off with multiple hits (during invincibility?), and Strike Man in the air... I could go on for a while about that. Basically, most bosses have messed up invincibility in some way or another. Do you know what circumstances cause the bosses to have messed up invincibility?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 3/2/2007
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Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
Only the blade works.
For whatever reason it can be used instantly right after attacking with a weapon, but it still takes precisly exactly 5 frames (equal to 0.08) until being able to shoot it. 2 frames to get to buster, 2 frames to get to blade cause there's always a 1 frame delay between switching weapons ex-cluding buster (it's really weird) ..then 1 more frame to shoot again
boss invisible time lasts for exactly 0.33 or 0.34 (if the next hit lands on a number that isn't displayed on the timer - .x2, .x4, .x7, or .x9 ..then it's rounded down to 33) In other words 20 frames
33 - 8 = attacking with blade 0.25 earlier than normal. subtract 1 frame for 2 damage, 3 frames for 1 more damage, (the farther away you are from the boss, the more time loss you suffer within a certain pixel range) then you must get back to whatever the boss weapon weakness is BEFORE the next 0.33 passes ..and shoot within that time
^what he said.
I'm not claiming to be the first to figure it out, but I definitely found this out on my own and use it in a run before anyone had mentioned it.
While running Nitro Man and Chill Man, I noticed using only their weakness weapon OVERkills them by a few damage points. So, while playing around with other weapons I discovered the Blade could bypass the invincibility timer.
Almost every boss can be exploited this way. Even Wily. Only Pump Man and Commando Man are different.
Pump Man needs to have a Thunder Wool above him to damage him, and switching would cancel it.
Commando Man has an exploit where he has NO invincibility during a certain part of his jump. I'm not exactly sure what causes it, but he's damaged with every wheel cutter you take out when you hit where I did in my run. Rockmanda used that trick in his run, but I made it a little better.
It might be possible that all bosses have an invincibility glitch in the air. I have yet to test this fully, but I did deal fast damage to Pump Man when he jumped and there was an active Thunder Wool above him. This is hard to replicate though, since Thunder Wool usually kills his whole shield and then he will not jump.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
kuja killer wrote:
Only the blade works.
For whatever reason it can be used instantly right after attacking with a weapon, but it still takes precisly exactly 5 frames (equal to 0.08) until being able to shoot it. 2 frames to get to buster, 2 frames to get to blade cause there's always a 1 frame delay between switching weapons ex-cluding buster (it's really weird) ..then 1 more frame to shoot again
boss invisible time lasts for exactly 0.33 or 0.34 (if the next hit lands on a number that isn't displayed on the timer - .x2, .x4, .x7, or .x9 ..then it's rounded down to 33) In other words 20 frames
33 - 8 = attacking with blade 0.25 earlier than normal. subtract 1 frame for 2 damage, 3 frames for 1 more damage, (the farther away you are from the boss, the more time loss you suffer within a certain pixel range) then you must get back to whatever the boss weapon weakness is BEFORE the next 0.33 passes ..and shoot within that time
Nice to know. So, does Triple Blade only ignore invincibility from other weapons or also from itself?
Either way, this sounds like it would make a Blade Man > Chill Man > weakness order viable, using P. Buster + Triple Blade as a makeshift weakness weapon that does 4 damage on Chill Man.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Technically it also ignores invincibility from itself too since you can fire once for 2 damage and then again for 1 more.
But a Blade > Chill > weakness order would be nice, but its not going to help, since you would be running Blade's stage without Rush Jet, and fighting Blade Man himself with only the buster which would be a pain.
Besides, using Blade only save about a second at most off a perfect boss fight that doesn't exploit it.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Proto Man has his Jet from the start of the game, so that's not an issue. And I need to buster 1 boss anyway.
Also, I think adding 3 free damage in between each hit will shave more than a second off most fights.
The only thing that needs to be thought about is whether not having Commando Bomb for Blade Man makes up for being able to use Triple Blade in Chill Man's stage and bossfight.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
