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Posted: 3/6/2011 3:20 AM
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4matsy
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
I agree with what a few others in this thread have said:
  • The effects of using continues differ for each individual game, just like the effects of dying or taking damage, and thus each case should be separately considered.
  • Coin insertion simply is just another form of input, like the reset button, and should be taken advantage of IF it produces a more entertaining result than a single-credit run would. (Which I'm sure wouldn't be all that often, but eh. :p)
Posted: 3/6/2011 4:47 AM
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Inzult
Active player (435)
Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada
NES TAS of 2021
This seems pretty straightforward to me. If abusing continues is entertaining, it gets published. If it isn't, it doesn't.
Posted: 3/6/2011 8:31 AM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
One thing to consider: TASes simulate in principle what would be possible on the real gaming device, if the player was perfect. Feeding a physical coin to an arcade will incur a delay of many frames because the coin has to physically travel from the feeding slot to the trigger that registers it. This, I assume, is not emulated in the emulator. Feeding a coin on each frame (or even on each 10th frame) would be physically impossible on the real arcade. Also, in a real arcade you can only feed a limited amount of coins before the container gets full. Ostensibly there's no such limitation in an emulator. (Disclaimer: This post was written only half-seriously.)
Posted: 3/6/2011 6:42 PM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Tangentially related point: If a game (maybe NES) has default 3 lives, but you can turn it down to 1 life in an options menu, do the rules request that you play at one life? Is that "hardest difficulty"? Alternatively, I'm sure we would frown if it was turned up to 5 lives. If we relate this to an arcade game, the player starts with one coin's worth of lives, should that be able to be increased? I still do feel that both sides of the argument in this thread are quite valid.
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Posted: 3/6/2011 6:58 PM
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Noob_Irdoh
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
Kirkq wrote:
If a game (maybe NES) has default 3 lives, but you can turn it down to 1 life in an options menu, do the rules request that you play at one life? Is that "hardest difficulty"? Alternatively, I'm sure we would frown if it was turned up to 5 lives.
It depends if you plan to use death / take damage to save time or not. If you never die, a run where you have 1 or 99 lives left would look exactly the same. Once again it's all in a case by case basis.
Posted: 3/10/2011 3:51 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1651)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Reading through this thread, I think the majority (but not vast, by any means) sees the similarity between the use of cheat codes and using coins. Also, I heard everyone saying that this poll was biased, and I must agree. To that end, I consider 'rare' to be superfluous, and think the generally excepted answer is "No with exceptions, as decided by the community through voting on movies and responses in game threads." Luckily, the wording in the rules already suited my purposes. Thus, the rule has been added, but the wording that it is not strict will stay. (http://tasvideos.org/Rules.html) I think that this will suit everyone. Thanks for all the responses.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 3/10/2011 4:57 AM
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X2poet
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
Exotic platforms TAS of 2015 TASer of 2011 Arcade TASer of 2011 Arcade TAS of 2011
DarkKobold wrote:
Luckily, the wording in the rules already suited my purposes. Thus, the rule has been added, but the wording that it is not strict will stay. (http://tasvideos.org/Rules.html)
Did it mean I can use continue in Metal Slug X? That place will take many problems. The rule only pick out that continue is not allowed. How about adding a new player after counting down to gameover? That is not continue.
Do the work.
Posted: 3/10/2011 5:13 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1651)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
X2poet wrote:
Did it mean I can use continue in Metal Slug X? That place will take many problems.
This means that the audience will decide whether or not they want to make an exception for a movie that uses continues, as they will be seen like cheat codes.
X2poet wrote:
The rule only pick out that continue is not allowed. How about adding a new player after counting down to gameover? That is not continue.
You are confusing the letter of the law with the spirit. Trying to figure a loophole just to use continues is sad.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 3/10/2011 5:22 AM
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X2poet
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
Exotic platforms TAS of 2015 TASer of 2011 Arcade TASer of 2011 Arcade TAS of 2011
Only who vote no consider it as a cheat code. Accepting rare exceptions means continue is acceptable in policy.
Do the work.
Posted: 3/10/2011 5:26 AM
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Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
X2poet, I think you've taken this way out of proportion here. Just because it's considered doesn't mean it will be accepted. It just means that it'll be thought over on a case-by-case basis. I am aware I'm not a staff member anymore, but this fact is obvious enough to make it necessary be known, and I am certain that this is how it will operate in the foreseeable future, assuming I understand DarkKobold right.
Posted: 3/10/2011 5:36 AM
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X2poet
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
Exotic platforms TAS of 2015 TASer of 2011 Arcade TASer of 2011 Arcade TAS of 2011
Must I show the comparation for Metal Slug X with the version that didn't use continue so that you can satisfy?
Do the work.
Posted: 3/10/2011 5:39 AM
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sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
It would certainly help as a basis for comparison, if not found preferable to the use of the continue in this case.
Posted: 3/10/2011 11:17 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
X2poet, don't be afraid of not using continues in arcade games. I assure you, in games like these nobody is going to reject your run because of it. There are many runs on the site where even not using death is a stylistic choice widely accepted by the community, but in this case it's even easier than that.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 3/10/2011 2:55 PM
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KennyMan666
He/Him
Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
I, for one, welcome our new non-continue using overlords.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Posted: 3/11/2011 2:28 AM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 343
I'm on the side of no continues in arcade games. The reason is because using continues to get more bombs so speed up the game is not superhuman. ANYONE with sufficient funds can do that to save lots of time.
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