Active player (279)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
How many missiles will you use/have by the end of Meta-Ridley? I assume you won't be visiting the ammo recharge station/ship to replace missiles used there. I suppose it might be possible to manipulate the destroyed statues to drop a large refill or two though. It's just something else to consider for missile expansion requirements.
Joined: 10/2/2006
Posts: 52
I obviously have no idea on a plan of execution. I'll need to get the emulator and the iso(rom?) first. not sure how to do that. if anyone has info that will help me get set up, please PM me with the details, I'm a total newb with anyhting not snes emulating. EDIT: after lots of playing around I have a working game. I have not tested re recording though it is quite hard to do so. It seems I cannot use the hotkeys for frame advancing with the logitec controler Due to lack of buttons. and I cannot map buttons to both keyboard AND controler. this will prove quite difficult. I've been playing around with HBJ trying to get the right timing down for fun, and its pretty impressive the height to be gained with perfection. emulation speeds are quite lagging though. I guess even with 6 cores or 3ghz its not fast enough
Joined: 10/2/2006
Posts: 52
I thought I'd update on a few tricks I've learned. With precision dashing samus can hit a small incline and gehtto jump while dashing, the height is high enough to clear "normal" jump height ledges. an example of this is a scan dash off the ship during the intro frigate, you hit a slope in the center of the second set of 6 shot orbs. samus will dash to the side (while locked on press left/right and jump for one frame, then just hold left/right for 6 frames, while locked on still, on the 7th frame either let go of all lock on, or press r, I actually find that holding r gives more speed, though menuvering is very difficult as you cannot bend the dash) in any case, in 1 single dash, I have managed to get from the slop all the way up the second incline leading to the door. which leads me to my next discovery. If you jump the same frame that you land, samus keeps ALL of her dash speed. much like "skipping" stones, except you only stop when you hit a wall. I also find firing missiles to be much faster (obviously) and can fire 1 missile every 10 or so frames. I was ready to pass out last night while fighting the PQ so I wans't counting, but I realized that I was firing REALLY fast. I really hope that recodring playback becomes more stable. Also in regards to performence. I'm getting 46-53 fps in the frigate landing pad. however once inside I have a blazing 60fps. and even though I'm on auto fps, it feels as if the game is playinjg too fast sometimes. though it might just be that I was used to frame advancing
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
That skipping discovery sounds like it should make for some very fast traveling. Excellent.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Bunnyhopping in a Metroid game? Now I've seen everything. :D
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635
Drewseph wrote:
If you jump the same frame that you land, samus keeps ALL of her dash speed. much like "skipping" stones, except you only stop when you hit a wall.
However, can you change direction and keep that speed? Dash Jumps go extremely far already, and there aren't a ton of places we need to move very far in a straight line. Not that this won't be useful...it's just that with the ability to change directions it'd be a lot more useful.
Joined: 10/2/2006
Posts: 52
Well, it appears that the optimal time to release L during an l-jump is 15 frames after pressing jump. also I have confirmed that running with L pressed is Faster than running normally, though not by much.
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I thought jumping was faster than running.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 10/2/2006
Posts: 52
I had to go to bed before testing that aspect. the L timming just gave the greatest distance while jumping, but while running on the ground holding L was faster. EDIT: Just tested Jumping vs L-Run. Jumping seems to be faster, 2 jumps will get you one foot ahead .... the timing really seems to be something I need to find.... because I was able to jump the furthest when NOT frame advancing.... o_O
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
If I remember correctly from a discussion on SCUK (samus.co.uk, no longer available) there were nontrivial numbers of enemies taking nonstandard damage from various attacks, having weaknesses, strengths, etc. Of course you should remember to boostball Meta-Ridley when appropriate. I don't think 21% has actually had a completed run, even if every room has been shown to be doable.
Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 94
eternaljwh wrote:
I don't think 21% has actually had a completed run, even if every room has been shown to be doable.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0F3195506088FFA0
Editor, Player (95)
Joined: 5/27/2006
Posts: 240
owned.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
Has any progress been made on this? I've recently been going through this game again with a friend and now I really want to see it pushed to the limit.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Joined: 10/2/2006
Posts: 52
you know what really depressing? During the Frigate escape, the WR escape video is 2 seconds ahead of me for the first 1/3 of the escape. then in the end I manage to pull ahead by a lousy 0.03 seconds. TASing this game is confusing as hell.... I have no idea how I'm moving so slowly when I am able to reload and manipulate 1 frame at a time.
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Drew, have you seen the latest 1:01 run from sparky? did you utilize the latest scan dashes and whatnot? Did you try jumping all the time where you could not scan dash?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 10/2/2006
Posts: 52
I dashed everywhere I could, even places he didn't. for ex, in the escape, I got a full scan dash off of a panel in the exploding pirate room during the escape, and managed to bunny hop all the way into the pipe..... and that was the method I caught up from being 2 seconds behind......
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Hmm that sounds weird. Mind uploading your whole WIP? Maybe we can spot something that you haven't noticed.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Former player
Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 424
Location: UK
Drewseph wrote:
you know what really depressing? During the Frigate escape, the WR escape video is 2 seconds ahead of me for the first 1/3 of the escape. then in the end I manage to pull ahead by a lousy 0.03 seconds.
Do you fall behind gradually, or does it happen at cutscenes or similar? If it happens at a few discrete events, then this could be an emulation inaccuracy instead of you doing anything wrong. A famous example of this type is opening the menu in zelda oot, which was much slower on the emulator than on the real console. If the loss happens gradually while you move, it sounds more likely that you are moving suboptimally, but it could also be different emulation of lag. As AngerFist says, and encode would be helpful here.
Joined: 10/2/2006
Posts: 52
Hey I said I was tasing the game, not recording it =P Besides every single video clip desyncs immediatley for me. sorry I have no video. as for the timer. I should check that out to be sure if its immediate or gradual. the timer kicks in once samus goes back to FP during the queen death cinematic though.
Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
As a major Metroid fan, I'm surprised that this game isn't more talked about with the many Metroid fans already here. I'm almost finished with my major TAS project, and I was wanting a new game to TAS (aside from my other 2 PSX TAS's), unfortunately by the sounds of it, Dolphin won't run very pretty on my crappy computer... But I guess I'll try later. Anyway, I'm currently watching the 1:01 speedrun, and then later Miles 21% demonstration (I really find it unnecessary to watch the 22% if the only difference is getting the space jump). And I'll leave my input on some things if I can aside from whats already been stated. I'll edit after I finish both and leave my input here: Note: I simply refer to secret worlds as oob - The door load times from real console and emulator would be different right? If so, that saves at least a second or more waiting. Doing a HBJ could save the waiting time between bombs in spots where he does DBJ more than 1 time close to each other. We'd obviously not have to enter a save room to save, but it might help to heal. Rapid Missile Firing would be frame perfect and not delayed at all. Scan jumping would be asap, and optimal, beating Sparky's time escapes would be obvious, but I guess everything else I'm saying is already... With frame advance a lot of things can be done so that alone makes the Metroid Prime run in under 1 hour, but I guess that wouldn't be hard since 1:01 and 00:59 are only 2 minutes apart haha. I wonder if holding Samus off at certain points will allow things to load (like morph tunnel doors) so that you can go full speed ahead, but that's just assuming, it might be slower than just hugging the door til it opens. In sparky's video he hesitates by loading rooms to see where he is going (when he's oob after getting the charge beam) (I'm guessing, not positive if it's actually necessary to do this), and with TAS, we could (if it's not necessary to load the room to move on) just skip a lot of waiting time.. I loved the whole "fake spider ball" thing after Flaahgra. Magmoor is pretty standard. Phendrana... You'd think that there might be a way to get the wave beam without that annoying fight, but probably not from the way I've tried (and failed) so many times at it.. Skipping the boost ball is a no, as it's very worth the whole few moments it takes to get it (I'm very well assuming :P, if I'm wrong, don't hold me to it)... But same deal with the space jump, I don't see a reason why not to get it, it takes a few moments to get and it definitely beats morphing, bomb jumping, unmorphing (and especially on scan visor jumps).. I enjoy sparky's route, but I recall that you can get the plasma beam as soon as you enter Magmoor Cavern's by doing the oob stuff, so that will save back tracking time for sure, however... It's most likely not faster overall... So most likely, scrap that idea... Back onto his route, this is a very good route, but I don't think a TAS that just removes human errors out of an already existing speedrun would be "AHH-MAH-GODZ SONICKS"... I'd actually vote Meh on it (even if I was the author). Though, someone did state that some new SW route in phendrana ends up saving time, Sparky said it'd save 5-10 seconds in a normal run (if you wanna find this, just check video 15), so maybe more in a TAS... Nevertheless, do there happen to be any "TAS only" things in Prime? I think that we should use an SRAM, but only because of the ability to skip cutscenes... I prefer there being 2 categories ... 1 with sram, 1 new game, because the times can't be compared in my opinion. Finally.... I'd just like to say, that I've typed a lot o_O
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
Torn338 wrote:
As a major Metroid fan, I'm surprised that this game isn't more talked about with the many Metroid fans already here. I'm almost finished with my major TAS project, and I was wanting a new game to TAS (aside from my other 2 PSX TAS's), unfortunately by the sounds of it, Dolphin won't run very pretty on my crappy computer... But I guess I'll try later.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's a little disappointed every time I see that this forum gets a post, only to find when I check in here that it's about SpongeBob or ports of MegaMan. I suppose I'd be interested in messing around with this when I get back in the states and have free time. I am not at all familiar with Dolphin, but I have a powerful machine; if I can get it working, while I don't think I'd be doing a publish-worthy run, I would probably be able to put something together that was 1:00 or maybe less if the emulator is up to snuff. Unfortunately from what I've read of Dolphin it looks like I may have some serious trouble setting up the damn thing. I do think it'd be a good idea to discuss ways a TAS would vary in route or planning from a regular run. I have to rewatch the 1:01 because I can't remember the exact route structure, but I'm sure a lot of time is saved by being able to bomb-jump to plasma early. I wonder what else can be done. http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Metroid_Prime Always a good reference as well for anyone not familiar with the game.
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Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
Acheron86 wrote:
Torn338 wrote:
As a major Metroid fan, I'm surprised that this game isn't more talked about with the many Metroid fans already here. I'm almost finished with my major TAS project, and I was wanting a new game to TAS (aside from my other 2 PSX TAS's), unfortunately by the sounds of it, Dolphin won't run very pretty on my crappy computer... But I guess I'll try later.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's a little disappointed every time I see that this forum gets a post, only to find when I check in here that it's about SpongeBob or ports of MegaMan. I suppose I'd be interested in messing around with this when I get back in the states and have free time. I am not at all familiar with Dolphin, but I have a powerful machine; if I can get it working, while I don't think I'd be doing a publish-worthy run, I would probably be able to put something together that was 1:00 or maybe less if the emulator is up to snuff. Unfortunately from what I've read of Dolphin it looks like I may have some serious trouble setting up the damn thing. I do think it'd be a good idea to discuss ways a TAS would vary in route or planning from a regular run. I have to rewatch the 1:01 because I can't remember the exact route structure, but I'm sure a lot of time is saved by being able to bomb-jump to plasma early. I wonder what else can be done. http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Metroid_Prime Always a good reference as well for anyone not familiar with the game.
Whether publish worthy or not, I believe a TAS needs to be done. Someone can build on from that if it gets rejected from publication :). I also find it disappointing that many TAS'ers choose 2D games over 3D because it can be alot easier :p. But yeah, mostly the important thing in discussing is the route, second the bosses, third the enemies. If the route currently (switching with the SW route thing) is golden, then I guess we have no choice but to use that, but I doubt it.
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
A TAS would be able to move through SWs significantly faster than a realtime run, and for much longer stretches of time. If you watch sparky's 1:01 run on SDA, in segment 14 he does a series of extremely breathtaking wallclimbs that he said took "as long as the rest of the run" and the segment is only 7 minutes long. On the other hand, a decent TAS of this is going to be scan-dashing EVERYthing, so in terms of fastest travel I think generally SWs will not be optimal there. SWs will be used for situations where there's no possible way to get to the next destination without going out-of-bounds (edit: and also some points where the route is just way faster than the in-bounds ones available to us, like IBBF). One other thing that could possibly bear exploring is another visit at the X-Ray Visor skip. Currently it's only needed because it's not possible to damage Omega Pirate otherwise. I don't have a lot of confidence that it'd be any more plausible to do so in a TAS, but the potential for time saved is pretty nice. Of course we lose out on some time later with the second Metroid Prime fight, since IIRC you can't target him with hyperbeam if you can't see him. Another route possibility that might open up (but not one I see any use for an in any%) is early Magmoor. In a realtime run I believe you have access to 5 e-tanks and you need at least 4 to get through it without Varia. In a TAS it may be possible to manipulate item drops and move fast enough to get through with less--at least two e-tanks are retrievable without a huge time loss at that point. Unfortunately I think you'd still need at least 3 due to the distance from elevator to elevator. The theoretical advantage would be that you could go straight to Phendrana after bombs and come back much later to gather the Artifact of Wild with Phazon Suit equipped (I seem to remember having a suit upgrade and entering Flahgraa's room automatically put the room in state 2 and you would skip the boss fight there, but I may be mistaken).
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Joined: 5/27/2006
Posts: 240
afaik, there's nothing tas only and sparky's run is probably the fastest route. i definitely wouldn't mind seeing a prime tas even if it had the same route. but i do think a lot of testing needs to be done, especially if we can access the in-game timer.
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
BioSpark wrote:
afaik, there's nothing tas only and sparky's run is probably the fastest route. i definitely wouldn't mind seeing a prime tas even if it had the same route. but i do think a lot of testing needs to be done, especially if we can access the in-game timer.
At the very least I have to wonder how getting plasma without using SWs isn't better. Wasn't it proven that it could be done with just space jump and bombs? It's just that it's not humanly possible to do so. I'm going to rewatch the 1:01 and see if I can notice anything that looks TASable in it. I'll come back with any homework I have. If anyone has successfully gotten this game to run in emulation and can recommend settings please share and I'll see if it runs on my laptop. I need a break from Super Metroid hacking. : P
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