Post subject: About route selection in a game
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Here is a WIP before MISSION 4 for Metal Slug 3. http://www.mediafire.com/?6mo68ecr62fqg16 Fortunately,there is no desync problem now. This is obviously a "Main Route" run,having least cutscenes. But the "Branch route" of MISSION1 would be shorter than the "Main route". Other missions are not so. Making a fastest run and abandoning the other route is not better than making two different routes' run for this game I think. So I make a decision to do this one only for the main route. FBA is hard to use.I have done 3 missions for about a month.I hope the "Main Route" could be put into consideration.Popular game such as Metal Slug,I think one more different route is not excessive,because Castlevania 3 on the nes have 3 different "characters and routes" run. How about your opinions in this situation? Do you only want to see a fastest one,or both coherent"Main Route" and "Branch Route" with some short cutscene?
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Generally the route selection depends on your goals. Most of the games has a minimal "freedom" to choose your desired path and (sometimes) get rewarded with a unique award that only possible to require if you go on that way (let's ignore memory corruption this time). One of the reasons that games' has multiple TASes with different characters/routes. The first factor should be the "achieving fastest possible time" by selecting the shorter route. If the cutscenes are skippable, you could try "aims for fastest real time" which actually not a bad idea especially for Arcade games (comparing with world records etc). Otherwise I would rather watch action for longer time than watching a generic cutscene where I can't see any TAS crazyness. (Of course it depends on the time (how long is the cutscene, how long the game will be longer etc). I can't watch the wip now, so I can't help you more, sorry.
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In metal slug 3,cutscene is not serious. My goal is for the main coherent route. So I will continue working on it. different routes can show different battle style. Mission 1 the boss battle Main has an "R Metal Slug" Branch has a robot Mission 2 in the ice hole,some special performance. Mission 3 go down and get 2 submarines. And different boss battle method. Mission 4 it has 5 different routes. 2 of them looks good to take a show. Mission 5 it is long and has no branch.But it can show in different way. And for Metal Slug 4&5 different route will make holy different show!
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X2poet wrote:
In metal slug 3,cutscene is not serious. My goal is for the main coherent route. So I will continue working on it. different routes can show different battle style. Mission 1 the boss battle Main has an "R Metal Slug" Branch has a robot Mission 2 in the ice hole,some special performance. Mission 3 go down and get 2 submarines. And different boss battle method. Mission 4 it has 5 different routes. 2 of them looks good to take a show. Mission 5 it is long and have no branch.
See the (numerous) rejected Super Metroid runs for an example. Just selecting a slower route isn't worth a different branch... It looks more like poor route planning than 'a different branch.'
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If different route will fight with different enemies and boss,that would be ignored?
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This isn't like Super Metroid, where the game is basically the same and you just get from point A to point B by a marginally different path or in a different order. Each level in Metal Slug 3 (except for the last level) has multiple branching paths. They all start and end at the same point, but in between you get completely different fights and enemies. There is absolutely room for different runs of Metal Slug 3 that differ only by which routes they take. The only problems I see are that the zombie level only has one branch, and it's solely for bonus points (you go into a cave, fight to the end, turn around, and fight back out, then finish the rest of the level as normal), and the last level is so bloody long and is always the same. But there are 3 paths for mission 1, 3 paths for mission 3, and 3 paths for mission 4, one of which branches again into two sub-branches. If you just take the "default" path, you mostly just fight soldiers, zombies, and aliens. Side-paths have carnivorous plants, giant maggots, a leftover kamikaze army from WW2, mummies, yetis, and of course a bunch of extra Slugs for you to drive around. Two runs that differ by route will have significant differences in gameplay, enough to warrant publishing.
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I agree with Derakon. A shortest route with 2 players and an "exhibition" route (akin to Umihara Kawase) with 1 player, for instance, would look completely different.
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Derakon wrote:
This isn't like Super Metroid, where the game is basically the same and you just get from point A to point B by a marginally different path or in a different order. Each level in Metal Slug 3 (except for the last level) has multiple branching paths. They all start and end at the same point, but in between you get completely different fights and enemies. There is absolutely room for different runs of Metal Slug 3 that differ only by which routes they take. The only problems I see are that the zombie level only has one branch, and it's solely for bonus points (you go into a cave, fight to the end, turn around, and fight back out, then finish the rest of the level as normal), and the last level is so bloody long and is always the same. But there are 3 paths for mission 1, 3 paths for mission 3, and 3 paths for mission 4, one of which branches again into two sub-branches. If you just take the "default" path, you mostly just fight soldiers, zombies, and aliens. Side-paths have carnivorous plants, giant maggots, a leftover kamikaze army from WW2, mummies, yetis, and of course a bunch of extra Slugs for you to drive around. Two runs that differ by route will have significant differences in gameplay, enough to warrant publishing.
Yeah,Mission 4 has 6 paths *Go up at first(the shortest one) *in the room -worm zone -left mummie zone -right mummie zone -soldier zone -tin throwing zone
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Note that at least one movie ([1570] DS Space Invaders Extreme 2 by FractalFusion in 07:56.48) takes the hardest/least optimal route, in order to make the run more entertaining. I suppose what happens depends a lot on what routeplanning does to the game, and in particular how interesting a choice it is in the game in question. In games where routeplanning is difficult, finding a faster route is an important improvement, and suboptimal routes tends not to be too interesting; in some games, the difference between routes is obvious but only fastest/fastest without glitches/100% categories are interesting, and routes that aren't optimal for one of those are rejected (e.g. #2976: Kyman, MICKEY_Vis11189, Moltov, Nahoc, SilentSlayers, snark, sonicpacker & Eru's N64 Super Mario 64 "16 stars" in 13:28.40 was rejected for goal choice). There's definitely scope for "suboptimal" route choices if you can find a category where they're optimal, though (such as playarounds, hardest-route/best ending games, and the in-game time/real-time distinction); although only the most entertaining few categories tend to be allowed for any game.
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ais523 wrote:
Note that at least one movie ([1570] DS Space Invaders Extreme 2 by FractalFusion in 07:56.48) takes the hardest/least optimal route, in order to make the run more entertaining. I suppose what happens depends a lot on what routeplanning does to the game, and in particular how interesting a choice it is in the game in question. In games where routeplanning is difficult, finding a faster route is an important improvement, and suboptimal routes tends not to be too interesting; in some games, the difference between routes is obvious but only fastest/fastest without glitches/100% categories are interesting, and routes that aren't optimal for one of those are rejected (e.g. #2976: Kyman, MICKEY_Vis11189, Moltov, Nahoc, SilentSlayers, snark, sonicpacker & Eru's N64 Super Mario 64 "16 stars" in 13:28.40 was rejected for goal choice). There's definitely scope for "suboptimal" route choices if you can find a category where they're optimal, though (such as playarounds, hardest-route/best ending games, and the in-game time/real-time distinction); although only the most entertaining few categories tend to be allowed for any game.
This could be a enough reason to do a run for Metal Slug 3 in "Main Route"
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