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Posted: 7/22/2006 12:11 PM
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Dark_Fulgore
Player (149)
Joined: 7/12/2006
Posts: 264
Location: Brazil
FODA wrote:
So, any news? O_O 2 days already.. that's a long submission text
lol
http://youtube.com/DarkFulgore
Posted: 2/25/2011 10:57 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
While I'm waiting for the new version of PCSX to continue my Oddworld run I'll try to apply the improvements proposed by Nibelung, the author of this run: Points to optimize •Cyclops Stage: At frame 2196 i forgot to make a jump. I just noticed this when i was already fighting Omega Red, and I didn't wanna to come back to the start of the movie because of 10 frames or less. •Beast Stage: Better Strategy to kill the sentinels (jump-hit-hit-hit-DoubleHit Headbutt doesn't kill them)... ...and so on. Since there's (apparently) no glitches found in this game, the only way to save time is through optimization, and that's what I'm trying to do.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 2/26/2011 2:28 AM
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Nibelung
Former player
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
I'm out of the TAS scene for some years, didn't even remembered I was subscribed to this topic. I wish you luck, Dooty. I really hope you can beat my time.
Not more working on: DKC3 105% < Needs modified Nitsuja Snes9x+9, with reset recording.
Posted: 3/4/2011 5:03 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Thank you Nibelung. Cyclops, Psylocke and Wolverine's stages are done, I'm in the midle of Gambit's stage but I saved just a few frames :( Anyway, I'll post my results as soon as I finish those starting stages as I'm playing them in a different order: Cyclops, Psylocke, Wolverine, Gambit, Beast, Psylocke and then Beast for the remaining stages. edit: found a small time saver in those moving platforms of Gambit's stage, and I'm pretty sure it can save some time in other stages as well, so I'm starting it over again. edit2: All five starting stages done, 00:21.18 seconds ahead (1271 frames): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1628894148/Dooty-X-Men-Mutant-Apocalypse.smv edit3: almost done, I'm doing the Magneto fight right now. more of Nibelung's suggestions applied: Omega Red finished in a single combo, the same for Exodus. 00:43.33 seconds ahead (2600 frames). I'll post a new wip as soon as I finish Magneto's fight, I'm having a hard time to manipulate him...
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 3/4/2011 5:04 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1826)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I didn't notice this thread until now! I have been working on this game as well, though I'm not certain I will finish it anytime soon (you go ahead). I am several seconds ahead of the published run (though not as much you I think) at Wolverines stage. Here is the WIP. In particular, Beast's stage and Gambit's stage were improved. Maybe you can find something of use in my WIP, and feel free to ask any questions about it.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 3/4/2011 6:07 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Thank you Randil, I'll watch it as soon as I get home tonight. edit: overall I'm faster than your wip, but your Beast stage is 101 frames faster than mine! redoing...
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 3/5/2011 5:37 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1826)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Here are my RAM addresses, if they can be of any use: 
00000	7E0C05	w	u	0	X pixel
00001	7E0C04	b	u	0	X subp
00002	7E00AE	w	u	0	Scr X pos
00003	7E00B4	w	s	0	Scr Y pos
00004	7E0C08	w	u	0	Y pixel
00005	7E17D5	w	u	0	En1 X pos
00006	7E1825	w	u	0	En2 X pos
00007	7E1875	w	u	0	En3 X pos
00008	7E1805	b	u	0	Enemy 1 HP
00009	7E1855	b	u	0	Enemy 2 HP
0000A	7E18A5	b	u	0	Enemy 3 HP
0000B	7E18F5	b	u	0	Enemy 4 HP
0000C	7E1945	b	u	0	Enemy 5 HP
0000D	7E00D3	b	u	0	Counter 1
0000E	7E00D1	b	u	0	Counter1
0000F	7E0B8B	b	u	0	Move counter
00010	7E0C1A	w	s	0	X speed
00011	7E17B5	b	u	0	Boss HP
00012	7E1995	b	u	0	Boss HP?
I think "move counter" somehow controls when the game accepts your input... Those other counters I'm afraid I don't remember what they stand for.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 3/7/2011 1:58 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Thank you, the most useful is the speed address: 7E0C1A, 2s. I'm still trying to beat Magneto in one combo, like Omega Red and Exodus, but looks like it's not possible, and this may be the movie I'll submit: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1519839846/Dooty-X-Men-Mutant-Apocalypse.smv (00:49.60 seconds or 2976 frames faster)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 3/21/2011 8:51 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
going to watch now I knew there was great room for stuff like this. One big thing I don't think I ever got a definitive answer for: gambit stage, getting a guy to ducking kick you to boost you up to his platform, it works, can save time I'm pretty sure, but you need to manipulate the guy to be in the right place when you get there somehow and kick you right away. Neil didn't want to try it much because he didn't want the run to have any damage taken in it, I think the only problem was getting the guy to be either left or right, whichever fastest while you are getting to that place as fast as you can too.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 3/21/2011 11:33 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
I tried it, but I couldn't gain enough height with damage, also, it take too much time to recover when you are knocked out, so, even if it work, it will be slower.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 5/1/2011 10:30 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Well if you never got it to work you can't definitively say it'd be slower. I've gotten it to work on console and emu in real time MANY times, the only trouble was getting the set up without wasting time, if this could be done I'm confident it'd save time. I think did some frame counting on it to prove it could save time to Neil, but with wasting 90 frames to wait on the grunt it was slower.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 5/1/2011 10:54 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
You're right, during my tests I never got it to work, my bad. but... you must kill a brown guy to make he respawn on that platform, also you must recover from a knock down, and it takes too much time. anyway, I'd love to see it working, but the odds are against it working.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 5/13/2011 1:41 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Can't you kill the brown guy with a 1 hit up+y, 2 hit up+y? That'd only delay 10 or so frames, to space it out right so that sequence happens, then if you can manipulate the 3rd level guy to hit you soon you'd be on the 3rd level a good 120 frames sooner, allow 100 to get up, and you're saving about 20 frames. It doesn't take long to get knocked down and get up because you fall basically 0 zero pixels after getting hit up 20 or so, as opposed when you get knocked down from standing on flat surface where you get hit up 20 pixels, then fall down 220 pixels.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 5/13/2011 3:45 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Looks like it might work, I'll test it to see what happens. Sadly the game is not hex friendly, so if it work, the rest of the game must be redone as well. edit: here's what I came up with: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1867678366/X-Men-MutantApocalypse.smv the brown guy is too strong, also he doesn't want to duck no matter what and it ended up being just 2 frames faster...
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 5/16/2011 9:17 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I think this is faster: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/342267614/X-Men%20-%20Mutant%20Apocalypse.smv Done in real time from one save. I'm sure I can find more ways to save time if I look at the rest of the run more. Lesson learned: don't count something out until you've done thorough investigation, even if first instinct tells you it's not plausible. I've made the same mistake a couple times two only investigation years later and find my initial instinct was way off.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 5/16/2011 1:22 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Um... real time? well, it sure seems faster, but it would be nice to see it optimized so we could compare.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 5/17/2011 9:17 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Not my job, I just find and give ideas for improvement.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 5/17/2011 8:14 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Okay, I'll put your idea into practice then, (I'm stuck at Kreeping Klasps anyway...) thank you. edit: I was counting it all wrong, take damage is actually 1 frame slower: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1751282869/X-Men-Damage-Test.smv Why? I'm on the upper platform 8 frames sooner, but 17 pixels behind.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 5/24/2011 8:04 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
When are you stopping the comparison? Because in your original run you did 1 hit on the last brown guy, but 2 hits in this wip, I think hit-stun time is like 8 frames or so. Also I think you could do it faster in both versions if you walked forward a little bit more so you can U+y over the grenade guy with no hits, as opposed to walking forward after that U+y. And maybe with some frame changes, like jumping sooner/later you could get the get the guy to hit you at a better time, as it is he could hit you sooner to speed it up if that's possible, or hit you when you're lower so you don't have as much to fall, would make you fall back less and get up sooner.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 5/24/2011 10:57 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2467)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
I'm comparing when Gambit touches the upper platform, he is way behind there when he take damage. Something I forgot to mention is the awful luck with the bad guy on the inclined platform, he refuses to duck kick, and just like the brown guy, no matter what I do, he just want to punch, really bad luck. Donkey Kong Country 3 is taking all of my spare time, so I'm not going to work on this anytime soon, but thank you anyway, and if someone else wants to take a crack at this game, please be my guest.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
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