Agreed, and what Acheron said might actually be a time saver... If we can skip Flahgraa, then possibly doing magmoor suitless might save time, but I kinda doubt this, mostly cause of the too much effort part needed to live everywhere. But it all amounts to testing, I'll pull out my Wii and start testing some stuff since Dolphin would probably kill my computer after I come back from town. This'll be fun :p
^ Which that only works if the room is in state 2 (artifact) , not 1 (boss)
Forgive my ignorance, but don't you need to get the Wild artefact in Flaaghra's room? How are you skipping him, if you need to return here (or at the very least, the top of Sunchamber) to cause the second version of the room to occur?
I see, so if you get high enough in Sunchamber from below, as opposed to the bomb jump method from above, it triggers the ghost fight. How high do you need to get, because I assume it is at least higher than what Samus can reach with a space jump?
You'd have to wallcrawl up Sun Tower (or use Spider I guess?). Also, Flaahgra's flower isn't there below the artifact, so IIRC you have to wallcrawl and fall on top of it.
I seriously doubt it'd be faster to skip Varia, just explaining how it'd be possible...
How high do you need to get, because I assume it is at least higher than what Samus can reach with a space jump?
I'm not exactly sure on that, the others might be able to answer that... But I'm assuming some sort of crazy ass hyper bomb jump could reach one of the green enemies to give that weird bomb jumping effect that allows you to go back up to the sun chamber after killing Flahgraa... Most likely TAS only, or if your very good at HBJ'ing to reach such heights from the ground (bottom of where you spider ball back up to the sun chamber I mean)... Though, maybe a SW can get back up there too... :P It's really a guess and tell... I do know that if this method works, it saves going and recharging energy at save spots.. as we will have energy tanks to help us live longer, so we can royally abuse the whole "Takes Damage to save time" thing, not to mention Heavy glitch abuse.
Miles wrote:
You'd have to wallcrawl up Sun Tower (or use Spider I guess?). Also, Flaahgra's flower isn't there below the artifact, so IIRC you have to wallcrawl and fall on top of it.
I seriously doubt it'd be faster to skip Varia, just explaining how it'd be possible...
Just editing my reply here :p, wall crawling would most likely be the best bet (as I said above,... sorta xD)... It probably wont be faster, but maybe it could.. I can't remember if energy spawn if your already at your max health on this game (I've not played it in months), if not, then that could be used to manipulate more missile drops... though it possibly could already be done without max health. I'll be sure to test alot of this stuff, though since I'm doing it on the actual console (Wii instead of gamecube though :p, I could use my GC but I see no difference), I'll most likely have major difficulties :|
You'd have to wallcrawl up Sun Tower (or use Spider I guess?). Also, Flaahgra's flower isn't there below the artifact, so IIRC you have to wallcrawl and fall on top of it.
I seriously doubt it'd be faster to skip Varia, just explaining how it'd be possible...
I assume it's impossible to do Magmoor on the starting E-tank without the Varia Suit, even with TAS luck? If it's possible manipulating health drops from every enemy, 20% might be possible via that method.
Yeah, with 0 tanks you only live for about 10 seconds or so (don't know the exact amount). The best you can manipulate from enemies is a 20 health refill... You're not going to get very far.
Depends on if you can manipulate the 100 health refills. If you can't then doing a run without extra E Tanks or the Varia Suit is impossible even by TAS Standards.
pretty sure the enemies don't ever drop those refills. besides, skipping varia is most likely slower.
so would bomb jumping to plasma be helpful? i might be able to test if it's possible.
Either I'm missing something or people are getting confused with "bomb jumping to Plasma"... Bomb jumping up the spinners is needed if you don't have Space Jump, which an any% run would obviously have. Also, you can't bomb jump to the bomb slot without the spinners being raised, so you'd need Boost, so it can't be done in the lowest% either.
And yeah, nothing in Magmoor drops Ultras.
I remember sparky mentioning about doing ibbf via tallon overworld. The route after the frigate would be missiles -> morph ball -> ibbf via tallon -> morph ball bombs -> charge. The main problem is that when going to ice beam, after reaching chozo ruins, it was claimed to be impossible to enter the morphball tunnel wihout bombs in the save room. Apparently this saves a lot of time, and a tas may be able to get into that morphball tunnel.
I remember sparky mentioning about doing ibbf via tallon overworld. The route after the frigate would be missiles -> morph ball -> ibbf via tallon -> morph ball bombs -> charge. The main problem is that when going to ice beam, after reaching chozo ruins, it was claimed to be impossible to enter the morphball tunnel wihout bombs in the save room. Apparently this saves a lot of time, and a tas may be able to get into that morphball tunnel.
I just got back finally, so I'm hooking everything up at the moment, but I'll start messing around with this and leave some useful input after a full on test run. I'll try IBBF both the normal way, and this way via talloon overworld (if it's possible :p?)... And I'll try that route TRR03... Though I'm still using a normal console, and chances are I probably wont be able to do that if it was deemed impossible by someone like sparky :p. Anyway, i'll go over the game tonight checking out everyones tips, suggestions, etc.. I'll post back later.
Okay, after rewatching sparky's run I realize I was mixing up my % attempts. Obviously the plasma wallcrawl was for 21%, so silly me.
While the puffer type enemies in Magmoor can drop ultras, that's only on the PAL version IIRC, and obviously there are too many limitations to that version to make it worthwhile.
One thing I would be curious about is the bare minimum e-tanks needed to get Artifact of Newborn without the phazon suit. I suspect it would still be too high a number to make it useful to get it in an any%, but it'd be something to test.
My idea of skipping Varia is obviously far-fetched. The only way I see it possible is if it can be done with two e-tanks. I think this COULD be feasible with the ridiculous amount of speed we can gain from perfect scan dashes of pretty much everything. There are a decent amount of supply crates along the path, as well; manipulating them to all drop the highest possible health refills (30s, I think) could seal that deal. Seal deal. Deal with seals. I'm about 10% confident it's actually feasible, but we have to grasp at straws because anything that sounded remotely insane has been done by the very hardcore community around this game.
i'm not sure it's possible with two. the dashes/bunny hopping/whatever would probably require a ton of precision, which might limit your ability to shoot crates and pick up refills. but we could always try.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Only question I want to know for now is: WHO DARES TO TAS THIS GAME!? I do not have a controller or experience with 3d games so count me out :( Anyway, I am very thrilled that little discussion is taking place about this game but again, who dares/will tas it?..
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Only question I want to know for know is: WHO DARES TO TAS THIS GAME!? I do not have a controller or experience with 3d games so count me out :( Anyway, I am very thrilled that little discussion is taking place about this game but again, who dares/will tas it?..
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Kinda just waiting for someone to pick up the ball. I tried TASing a few first person shooters in the Dolphin (TimeSplitters 2 and CoD Black Ops), but I can't for the life of me figure out how to aim properly one frame at a time.
I even tried using the mouse as the WiiMote instead of using a joystick. With that, it's possible to just point where you want to shoot with the mouse, but it seems to always be off slightly.
i'm not sure it's possible with two. the dashes/bunny hopping/whatever would probably require a ton of precision, which might limit your ability to shoot crates and pick up refills. but we could always try.
I'm willing to try. I'll see if I can't get Dolphin working tonight. I'm no sparky or Miles, but I've completed a 22% run and broken 1:40 in my real-time playthroughs. That was a long time ago, but I like to think I have at least a passing grip on the mechanics. I always did well in secret worlds especially; too bad those aren't at all useful in VMR.
Edit: Silly me, of course I can't torrent on my school network. Well, soon's I can get a version 1.00 ISO, I'll get to work.
I did manage to get this game up and running. As I suspected my laptop barely handles the load--it's playable but only at about half speed. I'm also pretty sure a TAS input plugin will be mandatory for any truly impressive works. I'm going to try frame advancing my way through the escape sequence just to see how low (or, rather, high) I can go time-wise.
If anyone has suggestions on things that need testing, I'll be doing a normal playthrough but probably mess around with frame advance at various locations. Just post it here if you want me to look into a particular potential skip or time-saver. I'll be working on this between classes for the next couple weeks, and commit to it full-time when I'm back home, I think.
I did manage to get this game up and running. As I suspected my laptop barely handles the load--it's playable but only at about half speed. I'm also pretty sure a TAS input plugin will be mandatory for any truly impressive works. I'm going to try frame advancing my way through the escape sequence just to see how low (or, rather, high) I can go time-wise.
If anyone has suggestions on things that need testing, I'll be doing a normal playthrough but probably mess around with frame advance at various locations. Just post it here if you want me to look into a particular potential skip or time-saver. I'll be working on this between classes for the next couple weeks, and commit to it full-time when I'm back home, I think.
Watch often if your file doesn't desynch. That's probably the reason why there is no gamecube game TAS as of now.
I personally tried TASing zelda FSA. I did the beginning, but unfortunately it keeps on desynching at random places in the 5mins intro. I managed to get to the actual gameplay with the 4 links and all, but with delay, as the desynched input still leads to the gameplay luckily.
Even worse, when I try to record (dump frames) my WIP, it desynch so much and then I'm lucky if I get past 4 mins with massive desynched input.
If it doesn't happen to you, you go tell me what version of dolphin you use o_0. I personally work with r7323.
