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Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
Mole boss defeated I've never actually beaten this game and have only played it a few times, so I don't know what the most efficient strategies or the fastest order of paths to take are, so I stopped near the branch of two doors. Any comments and advice are welcome.
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The branch you're at doesn't matter (top and bottom are basically the same), so it's probably faster to take the lower one. I recommend starting over with the "lag reduction" option turned on, however, because it does affect this game although the effects are pretty minor in what you're through so far. Also, I would consider swallowing the missile (in the next room or so) since it's decently fast and doesn't slow down at all going through the air. And I would definitely get the Fighter ability when you can (the dog-looking powerup pedestal that'll come up soon) since its press-B-while-walking move makes you move really fast (faster than running), and it has a large variety of attacks.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
If you haven't beaten the game before, you might want to experiment with it a bit. The biggest time-consumer your first few times through is always figuring out where to go. Personally, I could never time attack this since I would default to just making a time attack version of my speedrun path. A world defeat pattern roughly like: Area 9 Area 2 Area 8 Area 3 Area 7 Area 4 Area 6 Area 5 Area 1 (IE final boss) Also, in my obsessive state, I would... -Grab the fire-dash ability (name?) in the cloud pre-area. -Forget about sliding (since it's complicated but some testing I did suggests that it's faster than running) -Grab the Sword ability in area 9 (prior to Master Hand battle) -Acquire the Super Smash Bros ability from Master Hand (which I would keep until the final battles - a switch to Meta Knight's sword) However, on that issue, some planning in advanced is called for. When you defeat a boss, you come out of the last mirror you entered. Some optimization can be done there. Ignoring when you'd have abilities, once you've beaten the boss to Area 2 you can pretty much choose whatever Area you want to do with little to no loss of time path-wise. At least this is what my thought sessions on the issue decided. The reasoning: If you were to go to an area that's really far away, you'll be activating specific mirror rooms\gateways along the way and getting to those respective areas will be plenty fast. But, if you did it the other way around (IE closer Areas first) then you'd simply be activating the same mirror rooms to save trips and you'd expand to the farther ones. In other words, since it saves time either way to activate the mirror rooms\gateways, and since for each one there's pretty much two destinations you'd go to, it pretty much doesn't matter which destination you choose from that mirror room once you've activated it so you can go as far across Area 1 as you want. One issue that might affect that is where you appear in mirror rooms vs where you activate them. Might be a slightly shorter distance one way over the other. Other than that, what abilities you have at what time are more of an issue. Well, my thoughts, in their unaltered and jumbled state.
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
started over w/lag reduction turned on..check the link in the first post finished up to the polar bear fight
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
Uhm, i have the US rom and the new VBA version. still, things go wrog within 4 seconds of playtime. what am i missing? :S
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
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McBAIN wrote:
Uhm, i have the US rom and the new VBA version. still, things go wrog within 4 seconds of playtime. what am i missing? :S
What does it say for "Your ROM" and "Movie ROM" in the Play Movie dialog? Also, are you sure you're using version 8c of the emulator? (About the movie so far - isn't it possible to avoid burning through enemies so often? They slow you down lot.) EDIT: Jeez, I can't type. I'll use Preview more often, I swear.
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
Yup, i figured out there was a new version indeed :S Thanks anyway. As for the movie, when you explode as the missle, you get blown back a bit. Usually at a door, you explode, and then run towards the door to enter. Wouldn't it be faster to explode a bit after the door (if there's room) so you'll land exactly in front of the door so you can enter it immediately?
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
You can't enter the door until a certain number of frames after you explode regardless of how close to it you are, so I had to manually explode a little bit before. Also, if you are too high up, you can't enter until you have gotten close enough to the ground.
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
i see, sorry ^_^
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
Gigafrost wrote:
In other words, since it saves time either way to activate the mirror rooms\gateways, and since for each one there's pretty much two destinations you'd go to, it pretty much doesn't matter which destination you choose from that mirror room once you've activated it so you can go as far across Area 1 as you want.
Thank you for your input! So what you're saying is that I should hit every big switch because the shortcut or area entrance that's opened from it will save time later? Check first post for an updated movie. I'm still wondering whether I should hit the switch shortly after the polar bear fight, since that only opens up a shortcut to the same place, whereas the switch shortly before King Golem opens up a new area.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Not every one, but the key ones. -Skip the area 9, 8, 7, 6, and 3 (purple and sea) gates completely. Well, unless you're going to go to area 9 from one of those places, but really for those I think another path would be better. I could check up on this, I suppose. -You have to get the one on the way to the area 2 boss; it's the only way to unlock the rest of the main road. -The gate room in area 2 (IE the switch just after the Polar bear miniboss) can be ignored if you're not going to area 9 from area 2. This is why some planning for that is needed. -The gate room in area 3 that leads to area 8 is good to get because it's not far from the boss of area 3 and it's also really close to area 8. -The gate in area 4 is sort of iffy, I guess. There's a switch on the rainbow road just around the area 4 entrances. The issue there would be if it's faster to a) go straight to the boss from that mirror room or b) get to the area 4 mirror room and activate that (then activating the area 1 mirror room it leads to) and back. I guess I'm not that sure about this gate. -On that note, I believe you want to get all the big switches in area 1 simply because each one leads to multiple areas. -The area 5 mirror room should be activated because the entrance to both the area 5 castle and the area 7 castle are right next to it. I suppose I could do some testing to see if I can find the optimal paths. I guess I'll start looking at that now. EDIT: Just did some testing. I'd post movies as well but they always desynced on me. Anyways, on getting to area 9: From area 2, it's a rather long path to area 9. The mirror to the area 9 mirror room (which is the choke point of the whole level...you have to pass through it to get to the boss) is 3 mirrors away, but you must go through a complicated and slow water room. From area 4, it's a medium path, but you must sacrifice whatever ability you have to get the small ability, after which you have to fight a Dog Fighter boss (with nothing, sword, or slice). In area 9, you begin 2 mirrors away from the area 9 mirror room. From area 7, it's a short path, you have to fight a Polar bear miniboss, and the mirror room is roughly 2 mirrors away (but you'll have to leave & re-enter a room from a certain mirror). Given that, I'm thinking the area 7 path to area 9 is the quickest. This means you'll want to activate both area 7 mirror rooms. This is actually pretty easy because... -When you first enter area 7 (or rather, just before you do), you should be just outside the ice castle. You run past it, enter the mirror just beyond it (you're in an ice cave). Run to the first mirror, enter, you're at the "far" area 7 mirror room (which leads straight to the nearer area 7 mirror room, which you activate). From there, you can either continue through the cave to the area 7 boss or go in the left door of the "nearer" room to get to area 9.
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spezzafer wrote:
King Golem defeated
Hmm, I know that boss can be killed a lot faster, using a different ability, but I'm not sure if the mobility you gain by keeping the Missile ability makes up for that.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
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Gigafrost wrote:
I'd post movies as well but they always desynced on me.
You mean these movies? They play fine for me... Uh, after I figured out what bit VBA set wrong and repaired them, that is. (I'll release another bugfix version sometime soon.) EDIT: It's released; see the VBA forum for version 9, which shouldn't give you any more problems with this.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Well, it's nice to know you found & fixed the problem. :) As a note, there are plenty of mistakes in my little videos. Since they're supposed to be about paths, I think I should mention that in the area-9-thru-area-7 movie I enter the wrong mirror once and go back through. (No criticism about undoing errors and whatnot because the movie files weren't playing back for me, m'kay?) Other than that, hopefully they're useful enough to judge possible area 9 paths...
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
Thanks for the videos, Gigafrost! Looks like the fastest path to area 9 is through area 7, judging by your videos. Also, I switched to 'stone' right before King Golem and saved around 100 frames in the fight (a lot was lost during the ability switch) but there's a Wheelie near the beginning of the next area that'll more than make up for it, since they supposedly have the highest velocity in the game. Check the OP for the updated movie.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
It's been a long time since anybody has posted in this topic. I have interest in doing this game again thanks to actually trying to speed run it. Fortunately, that speed run attempt is quelling my urge to TAS my speed run path/strategy and simply come up with a better TAS strategy. I just have to finish my Mega Man Zero run first. :)
Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
Hey, cool! I wanted to try this too, when I finished my run. I have it on GBA (but no GBA and my GC with the GameboyPlayer doesn't work anymore >.>) and I think I know some ways. But I never tried to aim for speed. The only thing I know you should, is to get Ufo-Kirby (last world). If you do so you should beat the bosses very fast.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
The problem with UFO Kirby is you lose it after boss fights, leaving you naked afterwards and with some very limited choices for the final battles. (Unless you unlock the entire route and gain access to the ability-switch room, which is most definitely slower.) Most likely, you'll actually need to do something such as: -"Speed ability" to get to the Area 2 boss quickly -Ditch ability for a stronger ability (rock) for the battle -"Speed ability" to unlock ALL critical areas (no bosses) -Ditch ability to obtain more powerful "boss finishing" ability (Smash?) -Finish off all bosses in a really short period of time In fact, this is fully what I intend to do for the TAS I plan on creating. But, yeah, I have it for GBA, too. Actually, I'm so obsessed that I have four of my own cartridges as well as four of my own GBAs (SPs) to ensure that I can play it with as many friends as I want. (Well, I also have four GBAs so that it's trivial to play a multi-person game of Four Swords Adventure on the Gamecube as well.)
Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
Oh, I forgot this. Always you enter the 'main' room, you lose Ufo Kirby. I think Sword or Hammer Kirby would be fast. Hammer's Up attack does massive damage. Four GBAs and SPs? That's crazy ;)
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
As long as you're meaning to say "four SPs?" Yeah, I agree. (I only have four Gameboy Advanced and all of them are SPs.) As for attacking, I was thinking mostly Smash, but perhaps with Hammer for some bosses? I have to compare damages before I'll know for sure, of course. The good news is that I have acquired another hard disk for my broken computer. Tonight I'm hoping to finish getting it up and running. That means re-acquiring my Mega Man Zero run and being able to finish that, of course. :)
Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
Ah. SSBM (very cool game btw) is a good ability, but I think Hammer is the best. Some bosses die with few up-hits. Just use it in air, and you can kill enemies without losing time. I vote for hammer. But of course you should do some tests.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
The thing that definitely makes it ambiguous is that Smash already has limited hammer attacks. And my immediate testing (on a GBA here at work during my lunch break) shows that the UP+ATTACK for Hammer, while powerful, does require some charge time, while normal hammer attacking (which Smash can do) can do fairly big damage in rapid succession. They're pretty closely tied in eyeing-time, actually. Moley could be the interesting exception since he's a ground target and he has a good "waiting to appear" time after the battle has begun, meaning the attack isn't as wasted there. I'll definitely test the edge cases. The one major advantage of Smash that I think you're missing is the rock ability, which can be used to dodge (invincibility) and which might also come in handy against Gobbler (shark boss; slowly sinking rock hurts him real good.)
Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
I'm not sure but you can use the up-firehammer in air. So you won't lose much time, I think. And yes, against moley the attack should be very useful. Before the boss fight you'll meet a hammer mini-boss, so... Any other good abilities: -I don't know the name, but the fairy which can fly and shoot with its bow. It allows you to fly, similar to Ufo. -Sword: can attack fast, has no lag (if used in air) -Meteor: Allows you to travel faster
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 141
Yrr wrote:
I'm not sure but you can use the up-firehammer in air. So you won't lose much time, I think. And yes, against moley the attack should be very useful. Before the boss fight you'll meet a hammer mini-boss, so... Any other good abilities: -I don't know the name, but the fairy which can fly and shoot with its bow. It allows you to fly, similar to Ufo. -Sword: can attack fast, has no lag (if used in air) -Meteor: Allows you to travel faster
You're thinking of Angel/Cupid and Fireball.
Joined: 11/16/2006
Posts: 75
Location: Michigan
nitsuja wrote:
spezzafer wrote:
King Golem defeated
Hmm, I know that boss can be killed a lot faster, using a different ability, but I'm not sure if the mobility you gain by keeping the Missile ability makes up for that.
I know hammer can kill him within seconds, just move next to him as soon as you enter the room, hit him a couple times on your way down, then do a flaming swing (up+b) or two and he's done. I don't know if you can get hammer without wasting time though.
Signature under contruction, still.
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