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Posted: 7/11/2011 6:03 PM
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Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Brandon wrote:
Nach wrote:
Brandon wrote:
...Again, people are ignoring something very important: SGB is faster than GB. Either VBA improperly emulates SGB to the point that it shouldn't be called SGB, or times recorded on the Game Boy mode are automatically larger than SGB ones, making the records incompatible, which from my understanding is a problem (See Shadow of the Ninja; running the game in the wrong mode made it go faster). Therefore, we need to decide if SGB should still be supported before we decide to change anything about encoding its runs.
If you want to get into timing, each flavor of SGB has different timing, which one would you go with?
Each flavor? I'm not sure what you mean by this.
NTSC? PAL? SGB1? 2?
Bisqwit wrote:
Nach, would you kindly show us a sample of a Super Game Boy game that has art specifically designed to look good on a 1990s television?
Look back at the picture of Bomberman GB 3 in the middle. Also look carefully at Donkey Kong, and pay close attention to Penelope's face.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/11/2011 6:06 PM
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Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (191)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 914
Location: Tennessee
Nach wrote:
Brandon wrote:
Nach wrote:
Brandon wrote:
...Again, people are ignoring something very important: SGB is faster than GB. Either VBA improperly emulates SGB to the point that it shouldn't be called SGB, or times recorded on the Game Boy mode are automatically larger than SGB ones, making the records incompatible, which from my understanding is a problem (See Shadow of the Ninja; running the game in the wrong mode made it go faster). Therefore, we need to decide if SGB should still be supported before we decide to change anything about encoding its runs.
If you want to get into timing, each flavor of SGB has different timing, which one would you go with?
Each flavor? I'm not sure what you mean by this.
NTSC? PAL? SGB1? 2?
I don't know about SGB1 and 2, but aren't NTSC and PAL settings for SNES? If so, you could just run the SGB ROM in whatever mode you want.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 7/12/2011 1:56 AM
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Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
You do realize that if you were to discriminate the SGB 1 and 2 hardware models, you'd have to discriminate between different models of Mega Drives, right? You'd be surprised how many hardware differences the same console can have.
Posted: 8/27/2011 8:17 PM
Post subject: Super Gameboy encodes and Aspect Ratios
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Velitha
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 84
Location: Middle of Nowhere
I'm curious on the proper procedure for encoding SGB movies, whether they should have a 4:3 Aspect Ratio or not. Some snipets on IRC:
(11:57:03 AM) Velitha: Having a SGB irl (it's with my parents with my snes), I would say that techinally, it's played on the snes, and the snes has a 4:3, therefore, sgb should have a 4:3 AR, but I'd like to hear what other people say before I make the encode (12:00:07 PM) Ilari: There's also the argument about what is intended. Sometimes it is blatantly obvious that AR correction should be performed. Sometimes AR correction would actually distort the image. But for most games, it might not be easy to tell. (12:02:15 PM) Velitha: what if black bars were added to make it 4:3, but doesn't distort the image? (12:02:45 PM) Ilari: Velitha: On real system? (12:02:51 PM) Velitha: on the encode (12:03:11 PM) Ilari: Velitha: On the encode, those black bars would be pointless (at least in primary encode). (12:03:36 PM) Velitha: they wouldn't be pointless as the encode is now 4:3 without distortion (12:04:21 PM) Velitha: let me take a pic to help explain what I mean... (12:04:31 PM) adelikat: pointless because it would defeat the purpose of the ar (12:04:54 PM) adelikat: the point would be to make it look like how it would look on a super nintendo on a tv (12:05:05 PM) Zeupar: indeed (1:03:59 PM) NachPlus: Velitha: I'd say it depends on the game
I'm headed home to fire up Pokemon Red on my Super Gameboy, and going to use my Olympus Stylus Tough 12MP camera to take a few pictures of what the game looks like played on a live console to determine if it is stretched out, and if it is, to what degree. I'll also be playing Red on Pokemon Stadium 2 (not sure if I have #1) for completionist's sake. I'll edit this later when I get back with the results.
Posted: 8/27/2011 8:46 PM
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creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
Wasn't that already discussed here? I'd say, if you include the border then display it in 4:3, otherwise 1:1.
Posted: 8/28/2011 12:30 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
We had a huge discussion about this a while ago. If I'm not mistaken, the new official stance is that we should not add aspect ratio correction to movies unless we're reasonably certain that it's needed (such as for PSX games that have a non-4:3 resolution). This would apply to SGB games as well.
Posted: 8/28/2011 9:29 AM
Post subject: Massive post with my pictures and findings on real hardware
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Velitha
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 84
Location: Middle of Nowhere
K since the threads got merged, I'll post in this one. I shot a total of 183 pictures of and on my equipment taken with my Camera (an Olympus Stylus Tough 12 MP, not that it's the best camera for the job, but it's what I have), with a total file size of 893 MB raw footage. Now be advised, these pictures are about 4-6 MB each due to me taking them at 12 MP. Expect them to look ugly when ultra-zoomed in. I hand-selected the best of what I took. The lighting on my pictures changes based on how much light is in the photo I'm taking, so if I'm taking a picture of the TV while it's on, everything is darker. Some pictures I got away with using the flash, others I didn't. Also please note, I'm not taking a stance on this matter, and thus unbiased. I don't want to spark more flame-war/arguments on here. My pictures are what-you-see-is-what-I'm-seeing in it's unedited glory. I'm merely sharing my photos as info. Take it for what you will, and try to be civil about it please. First off, we have my equipment. I cleaned and scrubbed the equipment out with 70% rubbing alchy + qtips for the carts, and the rest I wiped down with a microfiber cloth and a bit of warm water from the sink to the left. Made it look very shiny :) Also note that other than the N64 Xpack, and the SNES Advantage, none of my equipment has been modified, and with the exception of those 2 things, everything is genuine Nintendo-brand stuff. I couldn't find my true SNES controllers as I knew this was gonna be a long project, so I was short on time. This is the TV I will be using. It's pretty run-of-the-mill. Note that it doesn't have a right audio RCA jack, not that it matters for the purposes of this test. ===GameBoy Color Pictures=== A late entry came about with my Sister's GameBoy Color., We didn't find it until after I made the SGB pictures, so some of these pictures may be out of order chronologically, but I properly ordered them by hand on Dropbox. My stats screen on a GBC. Shown here as verification that it's my game and such. Something I noticed while I was remembering things about the SGB was that the sea was blue, but on GBC and GBA-SP, it's red as you see here. Not that this has any significance, it was out of the ordinary for me, and thus I took pictures of the sea on everything to be as through as possible given my timeframe to work on this. Of course, what documentation would be complete without an in-game battle. I chose this for the lulz of course. It's also good for showing off the pixels of the pictures in my findings. ===GameBoy Advanced SP Pictures=== My GBA-SP with Red inside it. I couldn't show the GBC on with red inside it without getting it to stand up properly for my camera. This photo also has my stats screen on it as well, not that it's necessary because... ...I took one of the stats screen close-up. Here's a photo of the stats screen stretched out. I took extra photos for completionist's sake. You can stretch out the picture by using "R" on the GBA-SP, as I'm sure a lot of you know. The Red Sea on a GBA-SP. I didn't notice the red sea till I played it on my sis's GBC, so this picture was an afterthought. It was taken near my sink as shown in photo #1. I didn't take a stretched out photo because like I said, this was an afterthought. An encounter on my GBA-SP.I didn't get the other battle like I did on the GBC, so I settled on this guy. Shame it didn't grace us with its presence :( The above encounter stretched out. ===SNES + Super GameBoy Pictures=== The SNES I'm using sitting atop of the TV. I didn't even think to take a picture of the controllers hooked up to it as it would add another angle to the picture, and this picture had good lighting to it, imo. And now we get to the good stuff. Here's my stats screen on the SGB, with the SNES in view as verification. I ran the cables for the controller around the back and around the right side. You can also see the composite cables hooked up to the TV as well. Here's a picture of how the sea looks on an SGB. It also has the SNES in view for verification. Here's what I'm seeing from the SNES. The coloring is about right in this picture. It wasn't totally pitch-black for reasons I explained earlier. Here's the encounter with the SNES for verification. Now you can see the lighting problems I was talking about earlier... Here's a better look at what I'm seeing from the SNES from the above photo. ===N64 + Pokemon Stadium 2=== Here's my N64 sitting atop my TV. Again, no pictures of the controllers hooked up due to time. These last photos are a bit rushed in a sense. Not that I was short on time, but I got a few lucky ones that looked good that I didn't have to take multiples of. Pokemon Stadium 2 at the Intro Screen. Also showing this because you can see "Expansion Pack detected" on it. Here's a better look at the above picture. I got some good lighting from my cam in this one, showing off the colors. Here's a good look at the stats screen on my Pokemon Red, play thru Pokemon Stadium 2. This photo has my N64 in it for verification as well as showing off good lighting in it. The blue sea, as seen in Red thru Pokemon Stadium. All of the verification pictures I took had the N64 too blury, but if you notice the background, it's nearly the same lighting and style that everything else has been taken in. This photo was a bit rushed, and for that I'm sorry. If you zoom in on the top of the photo, you can see the base of my N64, so I'm offering that for verification. The encounter as seen thru Red on Pokemon Stadium 2. Also has the N64 for verification. Another good photo that I didn't need a second take for. I hope you enjoyed the fruits of my labor on this matter. I know it's not much, but maybe the experts can draw some conclusions based on my photos and we can all learn something. That's the motivation behind all of this, knowledge.
Posted: 9/20/2011 3:43 PM
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nanogyth
Player (66)
Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 232
IMO pixels should be treated as square. My reasoning on this is that a CRT can stretch a pixel into a rectangle, no problem. But to do the same digitally you need to map those rectangular pixels onto a square grid. For most games that translation takes away more than it adds IMO.
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