Posted: 4/14/2010 4:26 PM
Post subject: Magical Pop'n
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Pavocado
Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 2
A fun, relatively unknown game. Information about this game is a little scarce, including tricks, glitches, and the like. Still, I thought it would be a fun TAS to do, so I did. The playthrough is certainly not optimized. I didn't do much frame-by-frame action, mostly limited to save states. I was more concerned about setting a precedent should someone want to improve it. Total time from beginning to final attack is approximately 30:21.00, maybe give a few. I'm not concerned about the exact time, since a more precise playthrough could easily beat this time by a significant margin. Still, aside from glitches or tricks unknown, I do believe that I did not do anything unnecessary and that my route chosen was about as optimal as could be - it just could be done faster. I do not have the .smv file. So, I'm not going to try submitting my run to this site. But I do have uploaded videos, here: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2CF6321BA4F94489 Other topics on this game: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8838 http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2696
Posted: 4/15/2010 6:27 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
oh very nice. :) I liked the boss skip in level 2. Clever! Couple of questions, I was certain that more bosses had a double damage vulnerability, why in specific did you pass on those? And do you think it would be worth the time to manipulate more star drops for the rollout spell in levels 5 and 6? Also, the rollout special looks like it might have sequence break potential, but at 10 stars it's rather expensive. One last thing, sliding is faster than walking ;)
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 4/15/2010 8:56 AM
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Pavocado
Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 2
I liked the boss skip in level 2. Clever! Thanks! That's pretty much the only major trick in this playthrough. I wish there were more out there! But, yeah, I just gave going that way a try - and woah! No boss! Pretty sweet. Couple of questions, I was certain that more bosses had a double damage vulnerability, why in specific did you pass on those? Unless I goofed, no bosses after stage 2 have that vulnerability. I was fooled with the second boss on stage 3 (the volcano, explosive-tears-dropping, one-eyed orb thing), so I used the Bomb special, when the regular bomb attack could have done just as much damage if you hit all four targets on its body with one bomb. And do you think it would be worth the time to manipulate more star drops for the rollout spell in levels 5 and 6? In my run, I actually didn't manipulate this at all. And I did use up some stars where it wasn't necessary. I don't think manipulation is necessary for the use of the rollout as many times as you need it given you use your stars efficiently. You get 20 stars when you beat a stage. Big stars that you get in chests give you 10. I believe the only time I slowed myself down to get more stars was in the last room before the boss on stage 5, which only barely slowed me down. With manipulation, then possibly that slight slowdown could be avoided. But again, I think just better efficiency in the use of magic would last you through the game without manipulation, but manipulating star drops certainly couldn't hurt. Also, the rollout special looks like it might have sequence break potential, but at 10 stars it's rather expensive. I'm not too sure. When you use it, your boundaries are the screen itself, so you can't travel to off-screen areas. Also, when the move finishes I think it returns you back to the position where you initiated it. One thing that would be great if you could somehow squeeze past the blocks that you need the bomb or ice or fire to get through. I tried a few things to try to get through them, but it was no dice. Maybe this game is solid when it comes to glitches, or maybe not - Who knows? I'm no pro glitch-finder myself :) One last thing, sliding is faster than walking ;) Is it!? Dang. What about jumping, I wonder? On that note, I think when she falls on her bum you move forward slower than if you were to land on your feet and move forward normally. At least, it just felt that way to me, but maybe that's not the case.
Posted: 4/16/2010 6:03 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
Jumping is the same speed as running. Not sure about the "Ow!" animation, I don't think it affects your speed at all, but I could be mistaken.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 9/2/2011 10:25 PM
(Edited: 9/7/2011 12:11 AM)
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Would someone mind combining the topics linked in the first post? I've completed stage 1 of a new run. This is about as frame perfect as I was able to manage, including some pretty substantial lag management at the bosses. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIcn6-7wJ4Y (SNES9x 1.43) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/636169749/Stage%202%20scene.smv I am about 21 seconds ahead of Pavocado's run. I am also 1677 frames = 27.95 seconds ahead of OmnipotentEntity's run. Comparing to OmnipotentEntity's run, ~642 = 10.7 seconds of those frames were not gained in boss fights. 5 seconds or more can be attributed to a new trick we've been calling "pogo jumping" which created a new route, but frames were saved in every single room due to sliding optimization. AniMeowzerz helped with the route early on and pointed out the trick to slash to start the sliding animation earlier upon landing. Coolkid found the pogo jumping trick. I've developed a fairly lengthy script to observe positions and velocities, if anyone is interested, PM me. There will be two deaths utilized in the run in levels 3 and 5. A death in level 1 is possible to save around 10 frames, but we do not have a third life to spare. Pogo jumping can be utilized to perform the level 2 midboss skip, saving significant time (and making it reasonable on console). A major skip is in store for stage 4, but I won't reveal it at this time. Currently I should have maximum star power available at the point when the spin is received in stage 5 due to the stars gained from deaths, so I am not worried about stars until then. EDIT: Some random pieces of information. In mid-air your speed is only effected every other frame by a direction. This means you can turn around for camera manipulation. This has been used in a couple places to save frames on enemies spawning, and has future uses as well. When you stab your sword into the ground, it will only "plink" against the ground every 3 frames. This leads to a 3 frame rule in some cases when needing to pogo jump. I saved 3 more frames by facing the opposite direction while grabbing the level 1 powerup. They hexed right in. I'm not going to repost the level 1 video.
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Posted: 9/6/2011 8:06 PM
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Hotarubi
Active player (452)
Joined: 6/9/2010
Posts: 12
Location: Japan
Hello. Here is my TAS that I made last year. However,it isn't aims for fastest time. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/736026901/Magical%20Pop%27n_2725.smv I am looking forward to your TAS very much:)
Posted: 9/7/2011 12:07 AM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Given no sliding and no pogo jumping, your run is very good, Hotarubi. Looks like I have to fix the last boss in stage 1. :P Thanks for posting your run for comparison. The run requires SNES9x 1.51 if anyone else wants to view it. EDIT: As displayed in Hotarubi's run, killing Stage 1 Boss 2 low on the screen saved 270 frames :) This puts me 1009 frames = 16.81 seconds ahead of Hotarubi's run.
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Posted: 10/29/2011 8:35 AM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Here is progress up to the level 2 boss. I saved all the frames previously listed in level 1 and hexed in 10 more frames of improvement on top of that. I'm moving out of state very soon, so progress may not resume for some time. I won't post the video on my youtube channel until I complete level 2 entirely. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/406715223/Level%202%20complete%20minus%20boss%20v3.18%20Sync.smv
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Posted: 11/2/2011 7:56 PM
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Hotarubi
Active player (452)
Joined: 6/9/2010
Posts: 12
Location: Japan
I found TAS that had been made recently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV4FBJEWnxc&feature
Posted: 11/5/2011 10:23 PM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Overall, he has the best run right now. He doesn't "attack cancel" to slide sooner upon hitting the ground, and he never "slide cancels" to make slide length variable. Due to these two issues, he probably loses around 5-10 frames in most rooms. He kills some of the bosses very high on the screen which costs a lot of time. He probably lost at least 15 seconds total at some of the earlier bosses. He doesn't have our stage 4 trick either. :) I suspect if I finish my run it will be around 25:00 based on his run.
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