Post by Exonym

Posted: 5/4/2008 3:21 AM

Post subject: Tinhead

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arflech

He/Him

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120

Has anyone tried to make a TAS of this game yet? It looks relatively straightforward and honestly, if Pulseman got the community's attention, this underrated platformer from 1994 should too. Perhaps I should cut my own TASing chops on this game; first I'm thinking about going over to GameFAQs to write up the first FAQ for this game, but before I do that, does anyone here already know a great deal about this game, like whether jumping is better than walking (there is no running but there are items that speed you around) or the exact size of the characters' and obstacles' hitboxes? Here's some stuff I figured out already that was probably in the manual, though that's hard to find too: -There are 4 worlds, each with 3 sectors consisting of 2 rooms to find a star and then the exit in; at the end of the third sector there is a boss battle with a big version of one of the enemies from the world. -You have 3 meters: Lives (represented by a heart, dying with 0 lives results in Game Over), Health (represented by a battery, max is 5 and getting hit with 0 results in death), and Shot (how many of your pieces of metal shot can be onscreen at once, from 1 to 5, and you lose 1 when you get hit). -Most of the items (all of which are in nondescript orange capsules that must be broken and returned to in order to get the item) do nothing more than raise your score, except... *Hearts (1-up) *Batteries (add 1 point of health) *Lightning Bolts (full health) *Shot (add number indicated on the item) *Arrows, which transform you into a motor-unicycle, a rocketeer, a propellerhead, or a bouncing-ball rider (depending on the type of arrow) and give you effectively another health point or by another perspective a shield *Orange "?" balls, which take you to a bonus stage with the sole purpose of collecting some item that increases your score and then getting to the exit before time runs out (you get a score bonus for finding these "secret" stages by the way) -It is hard to control the player character on slopes because they are very slippery. -The only reason you would use something other than the bouncing shot is speed, because the bounce shot is much easier to use.

i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png

Posted: 5/4/2008 11:20 AM

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maTO

Skilled player (1514)

Joined: 4/28/2005
Posts: 240
Location: Finland

I found out this game about a week ago and tested today. Since you are doing this I don't continue my run even though it's fun to TAS. First two levels: http://www.freewebs.com/suklaalevy/files/megadrive/Tinhead%2D2lvl.gmv edit: Running is faster than jumping. Jumping over two or more ledges is faster than walking over them and falling.

Projects: Warlock, Ren & Stimpy (impr) / Generations Lost (impr.)

Posted: 5/4/2008 2:18 PM

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arflech

He/Him

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120

Oh no, please continue: I've barely started and you seem to have everything figured out. Is there any way I can be of assistance?

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Posted: 5/4/2008 7:31 PM

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maTO

Skilled player (1514)

Joined: 4/28/2005
Posts: 240
Location: Finland

:) I have other games too, you can take this. Good game for newcomer to start.

Projects: Warlock, Ren & Stimpy (impr) / Generations Lost (impr.)

Posted: 8/3/2008 5:02 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (246)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

This looks like it would be an interesting game to TAS. I have never played it before, so most of what puts me off from doing it myself is planning routes. Here's a short WIP of (almost) the first two levels. Some time saving tricks: - After sliding down a ledge, press the opposite direction for one frame to cancel the slow skid at the bottom. Be careful doing this since Tinhead can be "frozen" for a few frames if you do it too soon after the slide (an example of this "freezing" actually occurs in my WIP, just after I'm blown up by the fan in the second level; easiest seen with frame advance). - When running up a slope, it's sometimes possible to press the opposite direction for one frame, which will put Tinhead into the sliding animation for a moment. This saves a frame. - Taking damage would obviously be a huge part of the run, since jumping totally sucks in this game and should be avoided at all costs. Running through enemies and spikes with the somewhat generous invincibility time is a must.

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Posted: 8/3/2008 4:39 PM

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paul_t

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 102

Nice! Looking forward to seeing more.

Posted: 10/10/2011 3:33 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

So I got bored today and was trying this. I managed to get ahead of Sonikkustar's WIP by 3 frames in the first level, but the damn random lag frames in this game are horrible and it ended up only being 1 frame faster. Also, I believe the character speed is 00FF46FA 4bytes signed. The runspeed cap is 4, but it can exceed that going down hills. Tell me if you know something that I don't about this. Also jumping is horrible in this game, as your horizontal speed decelerates to 1 while falling.... Any thoughts on lag reduction? I think it would be a decent TAS. Here is the 1st level ~~http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/252872309/Exxonym_Tinheadlv1.gmv~~ Edit: I did it yay, 3 frames faster now: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/251752732/Exxonym_Tinheadlv1_lagfix.gmv

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 10/10/2011 3:54 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (246)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Exxonym wrote:

Sonikkustar's WIP

He made a WIP?

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Posted: 10/10/2011 4:16 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1099)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

It's about time this game got a TAS. Good luck!

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 10/11/2011 6:09 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Finished a test run through level 4, and there are some areas I don't particularly like. Any suggestions? http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1754719034/Exxonym_Tinheadlv1_lagfix2.gmv Edit: Finished the first world as a rough draft of sorts. Now that I have a good concept of what the first world is about, I think I can go back and redo some things. Suggestions are still welcome of course, cause I usually miss something. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/396546006/Exxonym_Tinheadlv1_lagfix3.gmv

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 10/13/2011 1:40 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Okay this game is irritating! I was a good way through World 2, and had a death abuse planned. However, I was almost done with the level when I realized the star required to finish the level had reset upon death. I guess death abuse in this game is not possible. Here is what I had so far, but obviously the last level in this WIP will have to be redone. Health management in this game is a bitch. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/354528518/Exxonym_TinheadWorld2ish.gmv Here are some things I've noticed in the game: - In one level, I did not jump directly into the trampoline. Jumping directly into it is faster than catching the edge and falling into it. - It is actually slower to do the "slide trick" here because the slopes are too steep. There is an instance where I use it, which will have to be corrected. - When the rocket transformation is used at the end of the level, it is faster to hurt yourself rather than fly straight into the exit. Flying into the exit will cause the rocket transformation animation, which is really slow. Again, the first rocket exit I flew into rather than damage myself. - I'm pretty sure walking on reverse conveyor belts is actually faster than jumping due to the horrible falling speed in the game. I jumped on a few. - Killing yourself causes the star needed to complete the level to reset. This makes death abuse impossible, unless it is to replenish health. However, it is not recommended to replenish health in any of these levels so far, because it takes so long for you to respawn. - Health carries over from level to level as well as from world to world. This makes managing health that much more difficult (and annoying :p). If you spot something else, by all means let me know! I'll prolly be taking a break from this a bit.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 10/15/2011 2:56 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Okay, so my death abuse in 2-6 didn't go as planned. I do have good news however, I found another exit (I hadn't noticed that there are more than 1 exit in some of the levels, this will be interesting). This exit doesn't even waste as much time as killing myself for the other one. I hope to find a timesaver so that I don't get caught on the elevator's up/down cycle like I did. Again, this is a rough draft of the game to learn where everything is and what everything does. I'm hoping my second playthrough will be a lot more optimized. Here is the new route! Edit: Some more notes about the WIP and the game in general: -Jumping into an exit so that you stop in the air is faster than jumping so that you stop on the bottom of the exit. -Around 10200 or so, it would probably be faster to save 1 health for this part. I think that damaging myself at the spikes here would be way faster than one of the previous damage inflictions. -When jumping onto ledges sometimes letting go of the jump button a frame later will cause the character to be a few pixels ahead. -Sometimes pressing the button to change the direction of your projectiles will cause Tinhead to not move for a few frames. This shoud be avoided when necessary, and is especially true directly after spawning. -Pressing the crouch button for any more than 1 frame will cause standing back up to take additional frames. Pressing it for 1 frame allows you to instantly walk again. I do this when killing enemies that you can duck and shoot. This is to help me remember things about the game as I see them, and to anyone who will want to obsolete my TAS (if I actually finish it). At any rate I stayed up a little bit late in order to finish the boss. Here is that update. Note: one of the collectables at the end of the boss fight is a lightning bolt (refills health to 5). I'm pretty sure I should get it being as it's not completely out of the way, and seeing as I have 0 health. I'll go into the first level of world 3 a bit and see what it looks like. Status update (10/18/11): Started over and finished 1-1 and 1-2 saving 9 frames so far over my test run. These improvements come from jumping into the exit on the right frame, and shooting an enemy with 1 directional shot and 1 duck shot, rather than with 2 duck shots. I estimate this game will take quite a while to work out routes, so if anyone wants to help it would be appreciated. Also, I have recently found an (obvious) shortcut in 1-3 that should save a HUGE amount of time. Don't know why I never noticed it before. (Edit: Just tested, it saves ~300 frames!)

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 10/20/2011 4:21 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Okay... Here is the new World 1 (Crystal World). It saves 642 frames over the test run. Entertaining/not? I think the later worlds will be more entertaining than the first though. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/729599151/Exxonym_TinheadFinal.gmv

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 11/6/2011 7:13 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Woops, it's been a while; Time for an update I think! I found some time to work on this TAS this week. I've completed up through 3-1 so far and I've saved 1081 frames over my testrun. Here is the new WIP. Some more notes and rabble on the game: - It is possible to keep the direction in an elevator if you jump into the button at the right angle. - It is possible to accelerate faster upwards during the rocket transformation by letting go of the thrust for one frame and then resuming. - It is possible to also move faster left/right in rocket form by holding the thrust button into the ceiling. Unfortunately it doesnt help the first time (there are spikes on the ceiling). - I've confirmed walking on reverse conveyor belts to actually be slower than jumping (I stated the opposite previously). - It is actually possible to jump on the first frame of falling off a ledge. This helps clear distances with slightly less jumping effort. Since jumping sucks in this game; the less time jumping the better.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 11/18/2011 8:28 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

I found a way to make the magnet sliding in 3-1 faster. However, I'm currently on 3-6 and really don't feel like starting from 3-1 again. There's really only one place in 3-1 I think it would be faster (a few frames, maybe 10 at the most). Does anyone think it is worth going all the way back for those few frames? 3-1 and 3-6 are the only levels that have the magnets and I figured out this trick while doing 3-6. The trick is: instead of holding right after sticking to a magnet wait until the second frame on the magnet and press L+R and then hold right. This causes TinHead to slide instantly rather than waiting a good number of frames before sliding. I don't think the first slide in 3-1 will matter because the vertical platform that comes after it will have to be waited on anyway. It is the magnet sliding on the way back to the portal that I think can save a few frames.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/5/2018 7:46 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Well I wanted to get back to this game because I was pretty sure it could be improved, especially now that we have TAStudio, which I didn't have back then. After a few minutes of experimenting in the first stage I found a small timesaving "glitch" that screws up the graphics akin to the world 4 stage glitches in the published run. This occurs anywhere there's a right-side solid cliff. As soon as you're about to fall over the edge, press left for one frame and then press nothing for one frame. The game somehow puts you in the ledge (I think) and this game does not zip you out of walls if you are inside them, instead it instantly teleports you to the nearest safe location it can find. In these instances that happens to be as far down until there's another ledge. This is of course what skews the graphics. The only concern is that it DOES skew the graphics, and this DOES save time because this means less time in the air (which is very slow when you're falling). So every stage will be nothing but offset and garbled graphics, even though the overall product will be faster. Here's an example test run of the first 2 levels using the glitch (it's still like 20-30 frames slower than the published run because emulator differences): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/48946969495222205 [edit]: So this is where a terrain script would come in real handy. I'm in stage 1-4 and doing the trick on this ledge after taking damage also renders tinhead invisible for some reason. I don't have any idea where I'm at relative to the level or where tinhead is. I think in this part I shouldn't use the trick, but a terrain viewer would really help as I'm just now doing it based off of where everything is in the old movie. I'm also trying to figure out why it only works on right cliffs and not left cliffs.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/10/2018 6:06 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

So thanks to ThunderAxe31 for providing a nice terrain script, I was able to complete world 1 much faster. The frame total is 191 frames over the published run, but like I said before I lost quite a bit at the start from emulator differences, so it's actually around 250 or so. Among the cliff glitch, there were some new tested routes and new places for damage abuse. I'll probably skim over it again, because there were a few places that I feel didn't quite go as planned, but this is what it will ultimately look like (unless some other trick is found): Crap quality encode, because I never do them: Link to video And here's the bizhawk file if you want to watch it with the terrain script: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49056146176197175

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/11/2018 1:14 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (246)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

I discovered a glitch a while ago that puts you into the ground via the pounder things that come out of the ceiling to smoosh you. If you duck underneath them and then press up a frame or so before you are smooshed, you will be pressed into the ground. I recall it saving time in at least one instance. I don't know if this is something that was showcased in the prior WIP

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Posted: 8/11/2018 2:00 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

You're referring to the ones that appear in world 3? I actually didn't know that, but in which instance does it save time? It will be interesting to test when I get to that point. Also, I previously said that every level will be jumbled graphics because of the new ledge trick. However world 2 and 3 look like they have overhanging ledges, ~~and you can't do the trick if the cliff is only one tile for some reason~~. Turns out you do get the slightest advantage downwards by doing it on one tile ledges, but it's usually never worth the loss in horizontal distance from just running right. May still be useful at some weird instance where we only need to go down though. So world 2 and 3 may be somewhat in tact unless something else is found. I'm wanting to look at the rocket and helicopter transformations a bit more. Edit: I found a pretty decent skip in 2-2, but it requires slowing down a lot to lure the enemy in place. Skips more than enough to make up for it though. Link to video But further inspection upon doing this, it took me to an area where there is apparently a rocket transformation. I did not know this was here and it's making me rethink the whole game. The best possible way to optimize strategies would be to locate where every single transformation powerup is; I'm sure there are some in places I don't know about. Maps of the levels would also be useful probably. Edit again (sorry): Found a pretty interesting way of grabbing the rocket powerup fast. It turns out if have the x-position pixel when you do the ledge trick, you zip back up to the top when you press right. I didn't think it would have a use, but lo and behold. Link to video

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/11/2018 1:30 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (246)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

EDIT: I was thinking of a completely different game. This is embarrassing.

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Posted: 8/16/2018 9:24 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Here's what I have for world 2 at the moment. Perhaps there's room to manipulate the enemies a bit better. The route is pretty much set though. Total savings after this update over the old movie is 1192 frames so far. Not bad, hoping to double it by the end, maybe? Depends if there are transformation powerups still left to discover. New powerup usage in a couple of stages, because I didn't know about them before. In 2-4 it's not possible to keep the powerup because it forces you through a space where you have to duck. And you can't duck with the powerup, so goodbye to it unfortunately. Did find a new way to use that enemy to skip some stuff though. It's probably hard to tell with the jumbled graphics. Anyway, cheap encode: Link to video Like I said: this is probably not the final version. There are a few things that I want to look at, including enemy RNG, and a few nuances including killing certain enemies faster and lag reduction. Or if anyone out there possibly spots something.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/22/2018 5:00 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

World 3 (now without excess desktop sounds....): Link to video Now doing world 4 which will be super annoying without a script.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Forum Sega Genesis Games Tinhead Game: Tinhead

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Tinhead Game: Tinhead