alternate finish without 2nd boss phaseLink to video
notes/ideas for v2 (if I or someone else ever bothers to):
-different 3rd character; Riesz offers almost nothing, probably either Duran for more attack at "no cost" or Charlotte to skip one backflash; if Charlotte never buy her weapons, or at least rarely - maybe only Dwarven, Rolante's and Elven weapon
-alternatively choose a different route (though then it wouldn't be "hardest" difficulty?)
-get the moon coin during the revisit of the forest when Kevin onehits the enemies instead of wasting time on the first visit
-one atk-up for Hawk against FMH/none for him against Dolan
-no CC for Kevin neither get the last weapon for him
-better exp/lvl-up management
-more Start/Select/L/R-abuse
-when lvling up the not-played character switch to it to reduce loading time
Here might be some useful tricks from nicovideo.
Infinite Lvl 1 teck against Mispolm by Kevin (Played by やまねこさん)
Good example of a duplication trick (重ね（性能の入れかわり）)* (Played by かんがさん)
*The discreption of the duplication trick (重ね（性能の入れかわり）) is available here. Sorry, this is Japanese.
And according to this another video by いるかきゅーりさん on nicovideo, getting a w/a seed earlier is theoretically possible after defeating Genova. Seeding one other seed before you seed a w/a seed enables you to get first character’s weapon at Diorre before Ghost Ship but this will be extremely difficult. Seeding one other seed provides you with one crappy item.
The other day I started Hawk’s quest. I saved about 260 frames now.
Sorry, I am not willing to post smv now. I’m NOT bothered if praetarius3 or other guy starts Hawk’s quest. My progress will be so slow that other guy will have finished the run until I will finish my run. Unless the run is optimal enough, I’ll obsolete it.
Note: These pictures are wrong. I accomplished further 12 frames improvements from jail.
Sorry, I (still) can't read japanese and translators return only garbage...
I have a faint idea what it could be - but that didn't work so far...
Getting Hawk's the last weapon already before ghost ship looks interesting.
Apart from that I still am not sure who to take this time around as 3rd character.
only 260 frames ahead? I expected a bit more
notes/ideas for v2 (if I or someone else ever bothers to):
-different 3rd character; Riesz offers almost nothing, probably either Duran for more attack at "no cost" or Charlotte to skip one backflash; if Charlotte never buy her weapons, or at least rarely - maybe only Dwarven, Rolante's and Elven weapon
-get the moon coin during the revisit of the forest when Kevin onehits the enemies instead of wasting time on the first visit
-one atk-up for Hawk against FMH/none for him against Dolan
-no CC for Kevin neither get the last weapon for him
-better exp/lvl-up management
-more Start/Select/L/R-abuse
-when lvling up the not-played character switch to it to reduce loading time
I have already noticed such things and they should be on the submission text as a known improvemnts section.
only 260 frames ahead? I expected a bit more
I do not think so. I optimized even when I opened the first treasure box in spite of taking a longer name character. There was no pixel perfection in your run up to I progressed. At the end of the opening event, I saved 250 frames and I saved further 21 frames by just before the entrance of the Rabbite Forest due to pixel improvements and maybe a frame rule. In about nine minutes including the staff credits, this should be regarded as a big improvement, I think. People who visit here expect that the run is perfect at the time. Normally, improvements should be fewer frames in such a short time. If you beat me, I am VERY HAPPY for people can watch a further optimized run.
I still am not sure who to take this time around as 3rd character.
Why do you bother?
entertainment trade-offs:
1. Riesz as 3rd character; for what we need in this TAS Duran would be better (+1 Str, nothing else), but both wouldn't contribute much, seeing how the AI often freezes when I'd need it... I like Riesz as a character more, and initially it was planned to class-change with her for the earlier stat-downs and still some muscle; once the AI flaw became appearant this plan was dropped; Hawk gets his versions of the stat-downs still early enough Kevin is simply too strong to need def-down before the two last bosses, missing def-down against bigieu is (over)compensated by not class-changing Riesz
If I had had made a run, I would have started again from the beginning DEFINITELY. Once you submitted the run and said such a thing not as a known improvement but as an entertainment trade-off, why don’t you take Riesz?
-alternatively choose a different route (though then it wouldn't be "hardest" difficulty?)
I will no longer interfere with your run and hold my vote. When it comes to pixel perfection, I will have to point it out everywhere, judging from your run.
There are many enemies in mandatory battles in the last dungeon in the other routes, so exp manipulation will be hard. Or maybe you have to get more DreamSee Herbs.
If I had had made a run, I would have started again from the beginning DEFINITELY. Once you submitted the run and said such a thing not as a known improvement but as an entertainment trade-off, why don’t you take Riesz
Remaking the run would have been a lot of work, potentially enough that it wouldn't have been finished. There's always a trade-off between making the best run possible and making the best run that you can finish before getting burnt out. Different TASers have different tolerances.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
> Double stat glitch!?
Please watch my old Golem battle of Carlie’s run. I had already performed.
I might have been saying harsh things, but I think if this game had been overTASed, there would have been more claimers. Regarding the third character, ordinary audience who knows what is TAS will think that it seems quite odd to take Riesz without CC in a TAS.
Apart from pixel optimization, what I won’t particularly let it pass is two things. Having not informed judges of potential improvements on the submission text and having utilized not all of the techniques of Trangix’s and mine, for example performing lvl one tecks twice in a row, though which has a problem that does not help the game heavy.
I have not progressed my run at all. Instead, I have been typing a luascript, though it might be redundant. Here. -> http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1ph9jaeocyuxc7c
Extract the file in a same directory and run “SD3LuaWIP.lua” on an emulator.
First, without the luascript of Trangix, this code has not been published. Thanks.
-When one character leave on Ghost Ship, you have to comment “DispOnGS()” and uncomment “DispCharPos().” I wonder if the code were improved.
-Delete Key changes the position of enemy information.
-Insert Key changes the input pattern. This function is originally from FractalFusion’s
-Added Booskaboo/Flammie value, though I couldn’t find equatorial velocity.
-Deleted unnecessary information for a TAS.
-Checked who is player one and player two. Sometimes, this does not work fine.
-Checked previous position. Concerning pixel optimization, though, I’d rather care the position of talking and checking than the movement itself.
-Caluculate and display the time for next DayTime and Night.
And so on. If there might be bug, I feel sorry.
BTW, maybe two items should be used against first Genova and first Gorva.
And side note, if you exchange characters too many times on Ghost Ship, “GAMEOVER.”
well, there were runs redone for less (i vaguely remember a submission of a mere 1 frame improvement for mario64), so... why not?
plus there's quite a long list of "small" (or not so small) improvements; i wouldn't be surprised if it's worth 4-5 minutes
For example is it humanly possible to perform Kevin's attack glitch?
increasing his attack is the easy part but keeping it can become complicated
Preferably control a different character, get close enough to trigger Kevin's transformation and press X fast enough that you can still call flammie. If necessary kill that first enemy, a second is there but further away so Kevin stays still transformed but your not in battle mode, call then Flammie to leave.
That will work independent of frame perfect input or not.
How to keep it, well he will lose it always on a level up IF HE IS IN HUMAN FORM.
So time his level ups so that he is in his transformed state. (at least one enemy alive)
This can be tricky with the boss fights.
For all god beasts but the moon one you can call flammie to get away before his lvl up registers. If done right, he will have 0 exp to next level and get that level up the next time you beat an enemy.
For the end dungeon... good luck with the planing required to beat the bosses AND forced fights so that you do NOT level up after beating them - you have almost no chance to keep it in that case.
No idea how to explain that better.
Other tips... hmmm... try to experiment with auto-attacking (hold down attack button) that tends to glitch nicely.
Press and hold A to attack normally, auto kicks in relatively soon so that a second attacks starts immediatly after the first, then let go and repeat.
This tends to work better with double attackers (Kevin, Hawk).
I had it once that this stuck Kevin in a state of non-stop attacking but couldn't find out how exactly that went wrong right.
Oh, and in the reverse of "how to keep Kevin's glitched attack":
early on you often do not want to have him level up in his transformed state.
If you put a point into strength while a wolf that attack bonus is lost until you re-equip his weapon or get another level up.
It's got something to do with how the wolf attack bonus is handled (the total non-wolf attack is stored somewhere else and then simply overwrites his attack when transforming back - no check if it should be updated)
whoa, I had no idea it was that complicated just by watching the TAS run
Let me sum up to see if I understood well:
1) you mention calling Flammie, that means I'm able to use that glitch only around lvl 22-23
2) I must perform at night, when Kevin is able to transform
3) I have to call Flammie while Kevin is in wolf form
4) I have to repeat the process if Kevin levels up in human for but, if possible I should check Kevin's EXP to be able to time the level up to be during a night battle where Kevin is in Wolf form and the enemy triggering the level up is not the last one
5) It is not possible to use the glitch before having flammie therefore all the bosses until Gildervine will require a certain level
is all of that correct?
1) If you rush through you will be around 16-18 when you get flammie. I had to beat a few enemies more than I'd have liked to up to then just to hit 18 for class change in the mana land.
2-4) correct
5) Well, I don't know of any alternatives to flammie for this glitch, so yes.
But how high a level you need depends on skill as well as "luck" - with AI helping and bosses not using many skills.
That's best illustrated on Bill&Ben; in the TAS they did nothing, not even split into two. In a normal fight they spam a lot of skills.
And take a good look when you buy armors or weapons; e.g. on the volcano island shopping can probably be skipped as you find a better weapon shop before the next boss anyway (in the desert or ice land).
This just in! Collection of Mana will be released physically in August 27. With this release includes the never before released outside of Japan: Trials of Mana (which is this game being discussed here)
Note: These pictures are wrong. I accomplished further 12 frames improvements from jail.
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i sort of had a good start, then somehow lost 50-ish frames between eagle and and leaving town...
will be fun to figure that out
