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Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
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Location: Germany
I'm not working on the next run for now, but I'd like to post a few infos. Having your buddy kirbys use magic so you can acquire needed abilities out of the blue has always been considered a great possible improvement, if it can be used properly. Usually turning around while running, starting to run and sliding (the first one being the most applicable and effective) changes the randomness/RNG in the game. The buddy Kirbys will change powers from time to time and it doesn't matter in which room they currently are. They can acquire abilities that wouldn't be possible to get in the room they are in. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to influence the timing of said behaviour. You can change the RNG as much as you want but all it does is changing the ability that one of the kirbys will get (and even that is hard to manipulate). I'm currently looking into the memory trying to understand this behaviour. I think there should be a timer or something that counts how many time is left until a buddy kirby gets a new ability... Some memory addresses:
02020fe0    Health Points (Pink Kirby)
02020fbc    Battery Units (Pink Kirby)
02020fe2    Lives (Pink Kirby) 
Only added those for fun.

02020fe3   Ability (Pink Kirby)
0202118b   Ability (Yellow Kirby)
02021333   Ability (Red Kirby)
020214db   Ability (Green Kirby)
Assigning the value to these addresses doesn't switch the moveset so you will end up freezing the game most likely if you do.

1: Fire        10: Throw        19: Cupid
2: Ice         11: Sleep        20: Fighter
3: Burn        12: Cook         21: Magic
4: Wheel       13: Laser        22: Smash
5: Parasol     14: UFO          23: Mini
6: Cutter      15: Spark        24: Crash
7: Beam        16: Tornado      25: Missile
8: Stone       17: Hammer       26: Master
9: Bomb        18: Sword



I'm currently looking at 030015dd onwards. This part might be related to RNG as it doesn't react except when I turn around (which is known to change RNG).
Once one buddy Kirby has Magic, it is possible to manipulate either of the Kirbys to acquire Magic from the ability roulette they get. So we can use this over and over, but because of the timing it might be troublesome. It doesn't save time in many areas as most areas require wheel which I have most of the run anyway. But there are certainly parts where it is possibly of advantage to change the ability, like in boss fights or when I need to break grey blocks. Looking at it twice, it might not be a great time saver after all (the greatest time saver in the next any% will be optimizations and new strategies rather than Magic ability abuse). I'm not currently interested in working on a new TAS, but I might be if I succeed understanding the memory better and solve the problem with the timing I mentioned above. Any feedback/help with this is greatly appreciated. EDIT: I can't figure it out! I'm done with 1/10 of the IRAM part, and I'm not even sure if I didn't miss anything and it took very long... I'm out of this. If someone figures out the RNG and Magic kirby trick and all then I'll be doing a new TAS but as it is currently I simply can't...
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ljdWzZNkMI This seems to be a glitch which manipulates the savedata and opens the gate without having collected all the mirror pieces. I was under the impression the player might have used a cheat though. Today he sent me a message: "here i was playing kirby on emulator and i saved with f1 and then fall down and i the last boss doors where open.i unlocked 5-6 doors im not realy sure how did the glitch hapen but then i load game and tape it.and if you know please tell me how to cheat." I don't know if that guy can be trusted, but there might be the possibility for a glitched run..... His last line refers to my question if he used cheats. I'm asking him a few more questions.
Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere
Looking into the open portal early thing and I think I might have it. Lemme see if it actually works.
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
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Location: Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-lixdQUsGY Interesting speed trick that involves the parasol ability. I'm still researching this trick but I think it's slower than using wheel. EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EBDOEawZMg If you manage to get more than 32767 speed, the value turns negative and you move the opposite direction. Also, interestingly, the animation of King Golem after he dies only lasts for about 32767 frames.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
I'm going to make a new any% run. I looked into the memory of the game again in order to search for memory addresses related to Kirby's inhaling behavior and RNG. I couldn't really find any addresses related to Kirby's inhaling behavior (like addresses that are "true" if Kirby is currently in his 2nd inhaling state or if he is currently sucking in an enemy / sucking at a stone block). I think that addresses 0x03292569 onward are strongly related to Buddy Kirby's and RNG. If all buddy Kirby's are together, this area in memory doesn't move and it moves a lot if I slide into a wall repeatedly (known to change RNG). I'm not good at investigating this any further though but it's worth to take a look at it.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
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Location: Germany
EDIT: I'm working on the any% and I finished King Golem. I convinced myself to use resets in this run now. Surprisingly, the game allows soft resets at any point of time. In my opinion soft resets are always okay to use since it doesn't involve turning off the game or pressing some button on the console (NES). Saved 11 seconds so far. OLD POST: I'm making slow progress and now I've been stuck on King Golem for a while. Something is troubling me: Whether or not I should use reset! In my opinion, it takes away from the entertainment and it's confusing. I never wished to use it ever since I began TASing Kirby & The Amazing Mirror, but this time around I'm going for fastest time any% at all costs. So I may need to reconsider... It would save 6 seconds per application, though you lose your ability so it might not get used often (which is an argument for using reset). In the 100% category, resetting would save a lot of time but I would even more wish not to use it there. The game updates completion percentage as soon as you open a treasure, but when it comes to beating bosses (acquiring mirror pieces) you need to wait for the mirror piece cutscene to end before you can reset. In summary, I'd like to use reset in any% but don't want to use it in 100%. Now, I'm not going to run 100% again anyway and whether using reset should be / is up to the author, but well... it's been troubling me. It already troubled me in Kirby Super Star, until I was convinced to use it, but I'm not a real fan of it.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1914
Location: Floating Tower
MUGG wrote:
Low% test movie http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/786209376/katam-low%25.vbm It completes the game with 27% completion.
What version of VBA? It desyncs in 23.5 and doesn't get very far into Area 2. (Did you actually mix for Parasol in Area 1 or did the game desync that badly?) Edit: Guess I didn't wait the 20-30k frames worth of you sitting in a corner puffing until you get jumped somewhere else. -_-
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
If you didn't know already, it's the parasol exploit. Whenever you get the speedboost, the game just adds a certain number to your speed, and if you preserve speed properly you can build it up more and more. When you get more than 32767, the value turns negative and you go the other direction. It's useful since you can go through walls and skip rooms which would add to the completion %.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1914
Location: Floating Tower
Interesting. Lots of little changes here and there, the most drastic being the room before the star warp, which is COMPLETELY different. Also will be doing a 4P run for the SDA charity marathon in a month. The one thing I found from my play with romscout (2P) is that the lag in a multiplayer game is gawd awful. And it's really really random, which should make this quite interesting come the marathon. Hopefully all will go well and it should be interesting to watch if you like this game.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2159)
Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania
Sir VG wrote:
Also will be doing a 4P run for the SDA charity marathon in a month. The one thing I found from my play with romscout (2P) is that the lag in a multiplayer game is gawd awful. And it's really really random, which should make this quite interesting come the marathon. Hopefully all will go well and it should be interesting to watch if you like this game.
That reminds me of my vaporware (a.k.a. VBA-RR that supports multiplayer re-recording).
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
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Location: Germany
Differences list I made http://www.kirbysrainbowresort.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=241398&p=482523#p482523 Probably there's more stuff but that's what I came up with after 2 or 3 hours. Maybe I could write some content for tcrf later.. EDIT: http://tcrf.net/Proto:Kirby_and_the_Amazing_Mirror
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
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I uploaded the 28 minute RTA to youtube so you can conveniently jump to any point in the video as opposed to the nicovideo where you have to log in and have the video buffer for very long. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN_nZ2Klgrg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jONhpT6rSyM
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18818107 Freeze glitch Also, some interesting trivia I found: When sliding on icy ground, there is less friction so you slide further. But if you are Ice kirby, you slide normally. Also I work on any% now.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
MUGG wrote:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18818107 Freeze glitch
Wow, how weird. A similar thing happens in Kirby 64: When you fall in a pit, if you pause the game while your health is counting down, it freezes too.
MUGG wrote:
Also I work on any% now.
Great! Looking forward to it.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Discovered a few glitches that I'm not gonna make a video of so I post here: - If you purposefully lose your ability and get master, your ability star is supposed to stay for a certain amount of time. But it will disappear anyway as soon as it touches water. - If you call your other Kirbys at the same time one of them uses Magic and triggers Metaknight, the Metaknight sequence won't show (as long as you're calling) but it will still inflict damage. It just looks like damage was dealt by absolutely nothing... - If you use Cook during a screen transition (after Dark Mind 4 but I think it works for any transition), you will lose your ability. You are supposed to keep it.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
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I had a little idea for 4 player TAS. Instead of hooking up 4 emulators, why not somehow control the Kirbys by writing into the RAM? I'm not going to be developing this, it's just a thought. Also any% TAS will be complete very soon.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
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MUGG wrote:
I had a little idea for 4 player TAS. Instead of hooking up 4 emulators, why not somehow control the Kirbys by writing into the RAM?
Wouldn't that have to exist as a hack? If you wrote to RAM manually during a TAS, the RAM values wouldn't change when you played just the input back, so it couldn't be done unless there was a glitch that allowed access to the RAM to control the other Kirbys.
MUGG wrote:
Also any% TAS will be complete very soon.
Great! I hope you found a way to use the glitches you've been finding to save time.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
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CoolKirby wrote:
MUGG wrote:
I had a little idea for 4 player TAS. Instead of hooking up 4 emulators, why not somehow control the Kirbys by writing into the RAM?
Wouldn't that have to exist as a hack? If you wrote to RAM manually during a TAS, the RAM values wouldn't change when you played just the input back, so it couldn't be done unless there was a glitch that allowed access to the RAM to control the other Kirbys.
You would use a Lua script that commands the other Kirbys every frame, I thought.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
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You mean just to test it out, right? That could be interesting. It wouldn't be something you could actually submit, though, since it's not solely controller input.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Well yeah. I mean, there's always some kind of address that stores what buttons you press in every game. Writing to that address / those addresses each frame via Lua will give you multiplayer. However, I'm far too inexperienced in Lua to make that happen and I don't have those input addresses. I just put it here so maybe someday someone else will make it happen. If VBA-linking doesn't happen or is too desync prone or whatever. EDIT 17th Oct: Well, how silly of me... I didn't think of the problem that each Kirby wouldn't have their own screen. So all you could really do with this is, do stuff when everyone is in the same room at most. any% TAS is done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnIiOaVXb1Y Please do not repost it to nicovideo until I submit it to TASvideos.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
More glitch-related discoveries I made: - When having Cook(?) or in general: Sometimes you can pause _during_ the Dark Metaknight cutscene. Pressing "Start" is supposed to do nothing or skip the cutscene if possible. But as mentioned, sometimes the game will just pause at certain times, under unknown conditions... - When other Kirbys have gotten themselves stuck into a miniboss battle, i.e. they cannot leave the miniboss section of a room, and L-warp, when touching the warpstar the miniboss fight may be triggered (the health bar loads). Sometimes it isn't, it's another unknown condition thing. - Regarding the recent Cook glitch I found, when you do it successfully, then the next enemy/enemies you fetch with Cook may not be flown to the bowl properly, but they may get stuck on their way to it, before reaching it. Something in the memory seems to be overwritten when you initially do the cook glitch, some kind of timer that tells the game how long to wait until all enemies have reached the bowl that has now an inaccurate value. Alright, enough glitch hunt for tonight lol
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
I want to write about the Cook glitch in detail here: - To do it, be in the very last few frames of your Cook animation at the same time that another Kirby absorbs an ability (using Crash may work too) when new enemies have walked on screen or the screen has scrolled for new enemies to be onscreen. If done correctly, fetched enemies will float in the air relative to Kirby's position. - This effect will vanish when you go through a door, L-warp out or lose your ability. The effect will stay if other Kirbys have been in the room where you did the glitch in your absence. - When you do this glitch, some kind of timer that tells how long Kirby's current animation has to last will be overwritten. Sometimes when you fetch new enemies after doing this glitch, the last one will not have reached the bowl but hang in the air until Kirby is done cooking. But the correct number of meals is cooked anyway. - The timer will be overwritten again if you do certain things like open a chest. In that case you can make the hanging enemy reach the bowl without cooking anything, which will make subsequent cooking infinite (i.e. game is softlocked). I'm planning on making a video might make a video about this at some point, and I want to investigate it more. EDIT: The timer seems to be 0x02020FB6 (16bit)! When "softlocked", it runs down from the maximum possible value or something. And then Kirby finally starts cooking after a few tenthousand frames, but then the timer starts incrementing from zero and loops forever(?). Sometimes Kirby will give out meals and end the sequence instead of looping the timer. This glitch can also be made so that Kirby will completely forget about a hanging enemy, and not cook a meal corresponding to it (the hanging enemy). In that case, if the hanging enemy is the only one on the screen, when using Cook, Kirby will ignore the hanging enemy. This glitch can be used in several rooms at once, if other Kirbys are there to keep the glitch effect up. But somehow, the hanging enemies may reduce in number; probably some kind of slot system in memory being overused. And while testing this, using Cook in a different room with no enemies twice made it so Kirby "softlocks". This glitch can, after Kirby ditches his Cook ability, cause him to inhale infinitely. Enemies or ability stars can be sucked in with no effect, or sometimes(?) they can vanish before reaching Kirby if you stop holding B. I don't understand the conditions behind all this...
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I made a video that shows some of the discoveries that I described in my previous post from 2012. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTeoAJGv3vs ----- I think that it may be possible to clip into a wall if you touch a frying pan from a cook or purple guy and he gets killed when the frying pan is in the wall. But unfortunately there is no instance where a frying pan ever enters a wall far enough. And I tried feeding cook ability to a yellow guy (which absorb your ability) and their frying pan only hurts you and doesn't catch you. So the developers were well aware of the clipping potential :P http://oi40.tinypic.com/ka4vif.jpg
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