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Posted: 4/17/2005 9:41 PM
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Paulygon
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
Hmm, I've read that you can't avoid battles that way in FF2. Even when you save and reset, it still remembers the number of steps before you get into battle. You'll just have to tough it out, I guess. =\
Posted: 4/17/2005 9:45 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
(I haven't watched the movie) It seems to me that Monk is a poor choice as his damage is dependent on level. Rather, Thief who gets a hit% bonus or Fighter who can wield any weapon would be better. But having Back mages who can spam Temper & Haste is nice, provided they're high enough level to cast it.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 4/18/2005 3:50 PM
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
Thanks for the comment! I think the monk will be a better choice than the fighter because the monk gets more hits, which makes temper more effective on the monk than the fighter. I'm not sure about the thief. If the thief gets more hits than the monk then I will rather use him instead.
Posted: 4/23/2005 4:27 AM
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Wren
He/Him
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
In the long run the Monk would probably be the most effective. When you start the optimized run (if you are planning on it) I would suggest getting an agility (for higher acc and more hits) and stamina (for more attack power) boost for the Monk every single time you level up. Since the Monk gets a hit multiplier of x2 when unarmed he should easily win over the Thief's higher than normal acc stat if you selectively level up the monk. Also, though it's probably unpracticle, Astos can be killed on the first turn by using a Cockatrice Claw. To get one at that point in the game you would have to do a ship game round... and I believe you need to break 2nd place (possibly even 3rd) to get one. If, however, you could get one from a 1st place win you might be able to get a few seconds shaved off your time. If you can manipulate the hit counts and critical hits your Monk gets you could also shave off a lot of time that way too. I'd like to know how to manipulate the game a bit better... I'm currently making a few demos (for buddies) of a Solo White Mage(Wizard)/ Lowest Level Challenge against all the bosses, including Omega and Shinryu. But I have no idea where to look in the code for the changes in the RNG I need. Mostly I just want to get criticals and have enemies miss me a bit more often until I get Blink set up. Your run looks awesome right now though. I look forward to seeing it finished.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Posted: 4/25/2005 6:28 AM
Post subject: Thanks for the comment
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
I have been somewhat busy but I will take this up again now. I will make a more optimized run for sure. There are quite some embarrasing mistakes in this one. Right now I am at the boss Marilith and I have some trouble killing her with the scourge spell (invoked by razer), is it possible to win against her with this spell? The cockatrice claw is a third place item in the ship minigame but when winning first place you get one item from first,second and third place, so if i could win multiple useful items I guess it would be worth looking into. Emergency exit from second place would be useful. I will optimize the agility and stamina for the monk. There are lots of optimizations to do with the battles, but it's quite difficult to manipulate to get criticals. If i could get criticals I should win many battles quicker.
Posted: 4/26/2005 7:20 AM
(Edited: 4/26/2005 8:35 AM)
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
Thanks Wren. I hope you can help me with some of these ideas I have. I said this in the previous post: >when winning first place you get one item from first,second and third place. This was false. You only get one item from either first, second or third place. But this doesn't mean that the ship game is bad. An example: If I win the first game in 5 seconds, then the second place could be won with 6 seconds and then the third place could be won with 7 seconds. The prizes of the game are: 1st: Megalixir 2nd: Dry Ether, Elixir, Remedy, Hermes's Shoes, Emergency Exit 3rd: Spider's Silk, White Fang, Red Fang, Red Curtain, White Curtain, Vampire's Fang, Cockatrice's Claw, Blue Fang(?), Blue Curtain The items in bold are items that would be most useful. If monsters that have resistance against instant kills or statues are truly immune then I would have to gather some extra items. There is a lot to test but here are some ideas: Get Megalixirs from the ship minigame. (Quantity I'm not sure, a lot I guess) Get Hermes's Shoes from the ship minigame. (Quantity 1?, for chaos) Get Emergency Exits from the ship minigame. (Quantity 4-6) Get Cockatrice's Claws from the ship minigame (Quantity 3) Maybe I should use Blue Fang on the Piscodemons? If so I should use it on a full team of them for more exp/gil. Use the Cockatrice's Claws on Astos, Kraken and Blue Dragon (Is it possible to kill it this way?). Use Emergency Exits after: Getting the Crown. Giving the Nitro to the dwarf. (Got to test if this would be worth it). Getting the Star Ruby. Getting the Levistone. Getting the Warp Cube. Getting the Rosetta Stone (Maybe not, takes time to watch the cutscene, have to test this). Get Ribbons (For magic defense), Get Giant's Gloves (Saber), Get Razer (Scourge), (Get Wizard's Staff (Confuse). (Maybe I won't need this)). Another idea that might be interesting is getting a Deathbringer from a black knight. This casts Death when used. (Use on Marilith if she is not immune to this?) (Might be difficult to do this). I won't have to pick up any tents or cottages if I use Megalixirs to restore hp/mp. Strategy for fighting Chaos: This is going to be tough but I would have to have enough hp to survive his multi-hit attacks for every round he would make one (and afterwards use Megalixir to survive another). Use Hermes's shoes on the monk. Let the monk use Giant's Gloves. Let the black mages cast temper but some would have to use items to restore others (Megalixirs, Phoenix Downs (I guess his punches would kill a character in one hit)). Charge up the monk until he can kill Chaos right away. Ok, this is much but I hope I could get some feedback on my ideas. Good or bad? I don't have an internet connection at home for the moment, so I can't test anything before I get home from work.
Posted: 4/26/2005 7:51 AM
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Wren
He/Him
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
When I get some time I'll write a few ideas I have. Right now I have to go to bed though. It's 3:51a.m. here lol. In the mean time I suggest heading over to gamefaqs and checking out the guides section. My guide (the level 11 class change FAQ) might have a bit of helpful info for the areas leading up to the levistone. I'm sorry if linking like this is against forum rules. I've read them but I don't recall if it said or not and like I said it's late and I don't have the time to check right now. http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/game/920240.html
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Posted: 4/26/2005 4:45 PM
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qbproger
Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 69
you shouldn't need the minigame nearly as much as you're planning. Keep in mind you can manipulate luck. And the speed of this one, should definitely beat the NES one, as it's easier. <<< Get Megalixirs from the ship minigame. (Quantity I'm not sure, a lot I guess) Get Hermes's Shoes from the ship minigame. (Quantity 1?, for chaos) Get Emergency Exits from the ship minigame. (Quantity 4-6) Get Cockatrice's Claws from the ship minigame (Quantity 3) >>> cut this all out. manipulate luck instead. Edit: the only thing I could see actually speeding it up might be the emergency exits.
Posted: 4/27/2005 9:04 AM
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
I'll explain why I thought of getting those items. The Cockatrice's Claws casts break which kills some bosses instantly. I have not tested yet if this really do save time, but it probably will. The Emergency Exits teleports me out of dungeons so those would cut time where I else would have to run all the way back out. The Megalixirs are for restoring hp/mp. Something I don't know but would really like to is if it is possible to hit a monster with a spell when it has a resistance against that spell (not a damaging spell those are just reduced in damage). All such spells only seem to miss. If it is possible then I wouldn't need the Hermes's Shoe's at all and just a few megalixir's.
Posted: 4/27/2005 1:22 PM
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qbproger
Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 69
Tafatt, go to the workbench, watch the NES FF1 run. you'll get items that can cast spells early enough. The ONLY thing I can see you needing is emergency exits, that's only because, if my memory serves correctly, the game is the only place you can get them. Seriously, just running through it like the other game does will look cooler, especially 0 battles.
Posted: 4/27/2005 11:59 PM
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Wren
He/Him
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
If he get's a E. Exit he will have to break a few records first anyway. While he is doing that he could manipulate himself the other items he needs if possible. Just look how much he does in the Astos fight. Let's say he can break the 1st record in 10 seconds (that is possible) he then only needs to break the next record in 10.1 seconds and so on. His Astos fight is certainly longer than 10 seconds. He could end it in a single attack. He could also get an H. Shoe because that will help against Lich. His opening turn would be something like Haste, Temper, Temper, Temper. He needs at least 2 E. Exits (one for the star ruby and one for the rosetta stone) so if it's possible to get both items he needs at the same time then that's even better. Each time you finish the ship game you are awarded 2 items. I don't know exactly how the 2 items are chosen but I know 2nd place and 3rd place will be the most helpful. At most he spends a minute or two on the ship game and saves himself a couple or more later on. In the long run it will pay off and it should be pretty entertaining to see that 15 puzzle totally kicked in the teeth.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Posted: 4/28/2005 5:56 AM
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
The puzzle records can be done in less than 4 seconds if I get a good puzzle. Kraken (1800 hp) also would take quite some time to defeat but would die right away from using a Cockatrice's Claw. I'm not sure if I should get the Hermes Shoes against Lich (1200 hp). In the first test run I kill him in 3 rounds and I doubt I would kill him in 2 rounds with this. I probably will have to do another recording afterwards due to uncertainty of how many items I would need. Also does anyone know if monsters with a resistance means it has immunity? Lich has a resistance against stone does that mean he is 100% immune or ~99.9% resistant?
Posted: 4/28/2005 6:02 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I don't know. Resistance could also mean it takes a smaller portion of the damage.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/28/2005 6:31 AM
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
Yes, that is true. But would a monster that has resistance in quake, stone, time, poison and death mean that the only way to kill it is by damaging it until the hp is gone?
Posted: 4/28/2005 10:03 AM
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Paulygon
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
In the original game, resistance doesn't grant total immunity.. just makes it very unlikely (3/256 chance). In the workbench video of the original mentioned earlier, once the bane sword is acquired (razer in DoS), it is used to beat all of the remaining bosses in one hit. From the talk so far, though, nobody seems to know if that will work in this version, so you may have to test it out for yourself. Just use luck manipulation to get the right frames.. you should try at least 256 before coming to any conclusions.
Posted: 5/1/2005 7:13 AM
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Wren
He/Him
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
If anybody is interested I have made a few, simple, little videos of a solo white mage in the lowest level possible fighting some of the bosses. I plan on doing all of the bosses eventually but for now I just have Garland, 9 pirates and 2 piscodemons finished. Each video starts in the status screen and ends in the status screen. http://www.uploadtemple.com/view.php/1114930762.rar I used "1805 - Final Fantasy I & II - Dawn of Souls (U)(Independent)" I recorded on various versions of VBA but all seem to work on the VBA9c (I think). Whatever version that was last modified on 4, 21, 2005. :P I should also note (for anybody who cares) I have used cheats in the game but not when recording. I have only used no random encounters and a code I hacked to stop the ship timer. Just to save me time while i go from location to location. Nothing massive really and I deleted the codes before recording to at least show that none are being used. All fights are legit, of course. I'm not doing anything impossible or cheating. I wish I knew how to manipulate things better. The only technical manipulation I did was the short pause before I "attacked" the piscodemons. I had to do that for 2 reasons. One was to get 2 and the second was to not get killed by them the first turn. The only things I want to know how to manipulate are critical hits (and hit numbers), making the enemy miss and status gains upon leveling. Anyone know how?
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Posted: 5/1/2005 8:09 AM
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Paulygon
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
My guess is that it probably works like the original game. The important thing would be the frame when the last battle order is given and execution of the battle round begins. From regular playing, it seems like the frame when the battle finishes determines what stat gains you get on level-up. That, of course, would also depend directly on when the last battle round begins and how that plays out. After the battle is won, no amount of waiting at any point seems to affect subsequent randomness. To get certain stat increases, it seems you not only have to select for the desired last round performances, but also for what the resulting level-ups give you. Seems like it would try anyone's patience. =} Although I haven't actually tested any of this out at the frame level, it seems a good starting point for subsequent investigations into these processes.
Posted: 5/2/2005 2:58 AM
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Mart
Former player
Joined: 10/12/2004
Posts: 19
Location: Montreal beach, baby!
Something I noticed while using the "No Random Encounter" gameshark code. Whenever I got to fight the same formation of enemies several times, the "battle scenario" was the same (except for slight variations, depending on your characters' stats and EQ). But then again, maybe the gameshark code shuts down an internal timer used in the randomness formula of the game. But one thing's for sure, in my mind: this game's engines DON'T run like the NES version. So getting a clue from the NES run won't help.
Karma can be vengeful, don't screw around wit it!
Posted: 5/2/2005 8:07 AM
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Paulygon
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
Well, I was talking only about randomness, not the internals of the battle engine. In some very basic testing, though, it seems that actual battle randomness is in many ways even more limited than the NES version. Once in battle, the frame seems to be irrelevant in determining the actions taken. Instead of at least selecting a random value every frame like the NES version, this one only seems to select them when needed. It seems the first ones selected are the battle order, since that never seems to change even if you choose different commands. One way to get different damane numbers, etc., is to choose commands that result in a net difference in the total of random numbers needed by those commands. For example, to get less random numbers used, someone should use an item that does nothing instead of attack. The outcome would only be different after that person's turn, so the person that performs it is important. If we're lucky, maybe some FF6-style randomness manipulation is possible (like the Echo Screen + Joker Doom trick). Otherwise, at least at the moment, it doesn't seem very susceptible to manipulation.
Posted: 5/3/2005 1:20 AM
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Wren
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Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
The RNG values start at 0x02001A18 through 0x02001A1B (I think) Out of battle, they change every frame (though, I have not checked to see if they still change while text is scrolling). In battle, they change depending on what actions have been decided as soon as the final command has been selected and the turn officially starts. Like, it was stated, the only way to manipulate them is to select commands that are different than the command you tried the last time. That makes getting criticals a pain in the ass since you might have to have one character use an item or whatever. You'd have to decide when a Temper has more advantage than a critical hit... and even figure out how to get the most hits for each attack... seems like a heck of a lot of random variables for each and every battle. It would take a pretty hefty amount of trial and error for every turn. Good luck.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Posted: 5/6/2005 2:39 PM
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
I have started a new run, I have the ship and are now playing the minigame to get items. The play is much more accurate this time. Vbm file Could anyone explain further on how to use the memory to get criticals and such?
Posted: 5/7/2005 3:22 AM
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Wren
He/Him
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
WOW. Just wow. I knew I was gonna enjoy watching the ship game getting pounded into submission. I never expected it would make my giggle like a little school girl though. I wish I could help you figure out how to manipulate criticals. The only thing I have found that works is to just, basically, use stuff that I normally wouldn't. I had to help a buddy manipulate his level up he got for killing lich to give him 20+ hp. I eventually had to use "staff" as an item, followed by a high potion, followed by attack (the attack was the killing blow) to achieve that result. Although, using other weapons gave me other results, it seems that magic might only work in two ways. The first seems to be attack and statistical magic directed towards the enemy. The second seems to be restorative and statistical magics directed at you. Both are when you are using them, of course. Items gave me results based on pretty much what item was used. Flee didn't seem to be any help at all... ever. Though thats not to say it couldnt be used to get one critical eventually. Just for helping me with my goal it really was worthless lol. Unequiping items does nothing at all. The rng will give the same numbers no matter what items you are using.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Posted: 5/7/2005 12:07 PM
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caitsith2
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Player (47)
Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194
Did you use some kind of 15 puzzle solving program? If so, where did you get it from?
Posted: 5/7/2005 12:10 PM
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Tafatt
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
Yes, I use the one from here: http://www.ic-net.or.jp/home/takaken/e/15pz/
Posted: 5/29/2005 4:15 PM
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Wren
He/Him
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
Any progress or is this dead?
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
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