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Ok, finally finished 3-3, the timer reading was 356. I ended up having to do some waiting for platforms, but did pull one neat time-saver by manipulating some platforms. Like I said before, I'll post the VBM when I finish, it shouldn't take much longer since I really only have two non-trivial levels to go. Here's my finish times so far: 1-1: 361 1-2: 364 1-3: 362 2-1: 358 2-2: 364 2-3: 265 3-1: 335 3-2: 358 3-3: 356 4-1: 338 In 4-1 and 4-2 I am planning on using fireball to get rid of enemies in my way, and I'll probably find some spot where it will be good to take a hit. Update: done with 4-1, 338 on the clock. It went pretty well, but I had to wait for platforms once. Kept fireball all the way through, I will make use of it in 4-2.
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Wow, so do you think you'll get the first Game Boy movie on this site? May as well be Super Mario.
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Well.. I know i cant wait to see this. Nice times
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I think it's likely these times are optimal within at most a few frames. (I'm wondering more about what the score will be.)
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Hmm, I was planning on redoing before submission, I didn't expect to submit on the first time through. Though I attempted to optimize the non-forced-scroll levels as much as possible, I didn't fully exploit every point in 2-3, it got annoying to plan out all the movements and break every block. I was going to optimize it later since it's a style factor and doesn't affect speed. Don't worry, I'll post the full VBM of this run, but I really want the submission to be perfect. Making the final version should be pretty fast, except for the forced-scroll, so I still could beat out OgreSlayer and BoltR's projects.
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Well, if the test version is practically perfect, then that just makes it even better.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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Ok, here it is: http://home.comcast.net/~f_amoroso/MarioLand-TheAxeManv0.1.vbm ---some stats--- Movie length: 12:17 Final score: 192590 Level finish times: 1-1: 361 1-2: 364 1-3: 362 2-1: 358 2-2: 364 2-3: 265 3-1: 335 3-2: 358 3-3: 356 4-1: 338 4-2: 343 4-3: 207 Ok, now the breakdown of trouble spots and highlights for each level: 2-1: the first level where I lost forward progress. That bone fish was jumping at times that made it impossible to get above or below it, and the layout of the level doesn't allow approaching it from any other angle. Note that the bone fish are immune to fireballs. 2-3: I was sloppy here, just trying to finish it to get the time, I'll work out shooting everything later. 3-1: Had to stop twice to wait for rocks, but I jump on them as soon as possible. I powerup on 2-3 so I can take a hit on the long spike pit. 3-2: Stopped to get a mushroom so I could take a hit later. Also had trouble on one spot where three spiders are in my way. Taking the hit allows me to ignore the spiked pit and boulders. 3-3: Just barely made the jump on the first platforms, but barely missed the jump on the second set. So I wait and jump ASAP. The short pause after the two falling blocks sets up the two platforms ahead: I let the first one move some before the second one comes into scope. 4-1: Another forced platform wait, I take out my frustration on some enemies who might have otherwise survived. :) Fireball is necessary to take out the plants in close quarters. It seems to add lag sometimes, but otherwise it only costs 1 frame/fireball. 4-2: Hehe, things got a little dicey in parts of this level. I'm pretty sure the bottom path is faster even though I lose some speed maneuvering around the pipes. Taking the top path would require breaking three bricks since big Mario needs an extra block to fit through. At the end I was just barely able to make the jump off the last moving platform. There seems to be a glitch which gives you a one-frame chance to scramble up after a barely missed jump. It seems to be affected by being big/small and it's only possible on solid ground, not the platforms. I've tried to do this on solid walls, similar to the glitch in the NES SMB1, but it doesn't seem to work the same. Anyway, it ended up being useful, so yay! 4-3: It was easier to shoot everything on this level than in 2-3. I showed no mercy to Tantanga and his lakitu-wannabe minion. About the score, my final version should have no problem breaking 200K. There may be a few spots I can scrape up more coins or something, but most of the points I missed were in 2-3. The invincibility star seems to do something funny with the score multiplier, I'll need to look into that more. I will re-examine the end of 2-3, I would like to kill the boss on my way out. I also discovered a glitch which will let me up my score even more. It's only demonstrated a few times here, but I should be able to abuse it more. I'll leave the details a mystery for now, but it's definitely visible if you watch closely. For time, I may try manipulating the bonus stages to get what I want as the first item. This time around world 1 worked perfectly, but the others could be better. I'm thinking world 1 will still be 1 life, the rest will be fireball, mostly just so I don't have to powerup during the levels. Of course I'd love to get rid of any of the platform waits, if anyone can figure out a solution let me know.
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Well, it looks pretty good. But why did you hit Start right at the end? :)
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Hmm, looks good, so I only have a few time suggestions and a few more style/points suggestions: time: - at frame 30590, you slow down a lot. I know you think this didn't waste time, but I'm pretty sure you have to move further to the right to generate the horizontally moving platform that is the bottleneck, then you can fool around without wasting time - every time you shoot a fireball that bounces, you lose 1 frame compared to shooting it directly into the enemy's face (probably because of extra time calculating the fireball's trajectory compared to when it disappears instantly). - after 3-3, the time it takes to wait 1 height change and then go down the ladder to the fireflower is almost certainly greater than the time it would have taken to finish 3-3 at a different enough frame to get a straight path to the fireflower - on platforms moving toward you that you jump on, I'm not sure you're jumping away at the earliest possible frame every time. - at the start of 1-3, you jump, I would check to make sure that doesn't slow you down by jumping before you're fully accelerated. style: - around frame 845 you can do something more fun to get the coin block and kill the enemy (still without slowing down). - around frame 2360 you can get the coins on both sides of the block without slowing down (making the mushroom appear didn't give any points) - at 2580, I think it's possible to get all 3 coins at once - at formations like the one at frame 5100, you can hit all 3 coin blocks without slowing down, not just 2 - you can get an extra coin at 9850 - you can run right up to enemies and jump at the last possible frame before touching them instead of having to jump earlier to land on them, I might've seen this somewhere but more often on goombas and things would be neat - in the autoscrolling levels, if you let yourself almost get crushed off the screen and then shoot the block(s) away at the last moment, you'll keep going but you'll be mostly off the screen further left than normally possible (maybe neat to show off) - picking up the mushroom you don't need in 2-3 would still give you bonus points, I think - when you have to take a hit on spikes, if you jump at just the right frame you'll cancel the "getting hit" sound effect And one more thing: it looks like you're shaking the Game Boy quite a bit (i.e. you seem to have some of your motion sensor buttons set to your regular arrow keys) (anti-typo edit)
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Hi,
nitsuja wrote:
And one more thing: it looks like you're shaking the Game Boy quite a bit (i.e. you seem to have some of your motion sensor buttons set to your regular arrow keys)
so this is what those characters are for... I've asked myself, what that underscore was doing there... Philip
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- at frame 30590, you slow down a lot. I know you think this didn't waste time, but I'm pretty sure you have to move further to the right to generate the horizontally moving platform that is the bottleneck, then you can fool around without wasting time
The vertical platform is the bottleneck here. Moving as fast as possible, you can't make the jump between platforms and you can't jump far enough to skip the horizontal one. So it's irrelevant when the horizontal one starts moving as I'm still able to jump on it.
- every time you shoot a fireball that bounces, you lose 1 frame compared to shooting it directly into the enemy's face (probably because of extra time calculating the fireball's trajectory compared to when it disappears instantly).
I definitely experimented on when to shoot and it didn't seem to make a difference, unless the fireball broke the minimum sprite count for lag. There doesn't seem to be an inherent frame penalty for bouncing the fireball, but I'll double check this my next time through.
- after 3-3, the time it takes to wait 1 height change and then go down the ladder to the fireflower is almost certainly greater than the time it would have taken to finish 3-3 at a different enough frame to get a straight path to the fireflower
Yeah, I didn't try to manipulate the bonus levels at all. I'll see what I can do next time.
- on platforms moving toward you that you jump on, I'm not sure you're jumping away at the earliest possible frame every time.
Now I definitely checked this pretty closely, it seems even jumping at the earliest frame possible still knocks you back a frame. It might be possible to avoid this by landing on a certain frame, maybe every other frame or so won't be subject to this.
- at the start of 1-3, you jump, I would check to make sure that doesn't slow you down by jumping before you're fully accelerated.
It only takes a few frames to fully accelerate and I'm pretty sure I got it here, but this will definitely be something I check. style:
- around frame 845 you can do something more fun to get the coin block and kill the enemy (still without slowing down). - around frame 2360 you can get the coins on both sides of the block without slowing down (making the mushroom appear didn't give any points) - at 2580, I think it's possible to get all 3 coins at once - at formations like the one at frame 5100, you can hit all 3 coin blocks without slowing down, not just 2 - you can get an extra coin at 9850
Thanks, I'll definitely try all of these. I picked up more tricks as I went on, which is why I wasn't planning on submitting the first run.
- you can run right up to enemies and jump at the last possible frame before touching them instead of having to jump earlier to land on them, I might've seen this somewhere but more often on goombas and things would be neat
I do this many, many times. However, since you can't vary the height at which you jump off of an enemy, I sometimes have to jump on it at the last frame possible to avoid falling in a pit or something.
- in the autoscrolling levels, if you let yourself almost get crushed off the screen and then shoot the block(s) away at the last moment, you'll keep going but you'll be mostly off the screen further left than normally possible (maybe neat to show off) - picking up the mushroom you don't need in 2-3 would still give you bonus points, I think
Right, I'll get this next time.
- when you have to take a hit on spikes, if you jump at just the right frame you'll cancel the "getting hit" sound effect
Ok, well I do this twice so I'll do one each way.
And one more thing: it looks like you're shaking the Game Boy quite a bit (i.e. you seem to have some of your motion sensor buttons set to your regular arrow keys)
Hmm, I didn't know about this feature. I switched the buttons, so it should be fine now. But wait, how does this motion get recorded? Can you explain this feature some more?
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Ah, guess I was wrong about the horizontally moving platform, although maybe a few frames can be gained by maximizing the time spend running along that platform as it's moving to the right (I forget if you landed all the way on the far left tip of it). For the fireball, maybe it's not because of lag... it just seems like Mario doesn't slow down as much when it hits immediately, but I could be wrong about that. About the motion sensor, it keeps track of analog motion variables internally, and pushes those variables around in increments when the motion sensor buttons are pressed, so it just records those buttons. It should really not even get recorded for games like this that don't have motion sensor capability in the cart, but it doesn't make any difference anyway except when viewing what buttons you pressed. (I have not actually tried recording a movie of a game that uses the motion sensors, so it's likely there's some oversight that would cause it to desync, but if there's ever demand for that functionality I'm sure someone will discover if that's the case.)
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Ah, guess I was wrong about the horizontally moving platform, although maybe a few frames can be gained by maximizing the time spend running along that platform as it's moving to the right (I forget if you landed all the way on the far left tip of it).
Well, I want to jump from the far right of the vertical platform just as I have enough height to make the jump, and this just barely lands me on the horizontal one. But this brings up what you said before about making sure the horizontal one is moving when I stop. If I let the horizontal one move further, then I will have more running room on it. So I'll make sure the pause doesn't stop it, but I don't think this is the case as is. You'll be happy to know that I was able to work out most of your suggestions for 1-1 and 1-2 in my improved run, as well as a couple other tricks. The edge glitch was useful in 2-2, it let me get some more kills and coins. My score is up by 1000 so far, but I may be able to get another 100 out of 1-2, I need to check a few things. Framecount is exactly the same. Update: Finished through 2-2, I'm now 2400 points ahead with identical framecount. I've squeezed at least a few hundred more points out of every level. Optimizing 2-3 will provide a massive score increase, particularly if I can blast every single block. It won't be easy near the end, where there are several walls in a row and I have to make sure I have time to move on and finish the level. I'm also going to make sure I kill the boss this time, it will definitely add some flair. There's also the matter of determining the fastest way to be big in 3-1.
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Progressing through 2-3, killing everything in my path. Interestingly, the invincibility star seems to have a hidden score multiplier that increases when you run into enemies about a second apart. If you wait too long, the multiplier resets until the next time you hit an enemy. Still not sure how that first value is determined (from the last enemy killed, I think), but I was able to use this to up my score quite a bit.
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Yeah, I noticed that, too. It reminds me of that practice level in Super Mario Land 2 that's designed to let you bash a bunch of Goombas with one star to get a one-up by the end if you time it right... I think.
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Ok, finished world 2 and worked out the absolute fastest manipulation of the bonus level. I need to be big or fireball to take a hit in 3-1 and I don't want to slow down to pick up a mushroom in a normally scrolling level if I don't have to. Conveniently, the setup of the bonus changes each frame. Furthermore, some testing revealed that the fastest way past a bonus level is to be big or fireball and then get the fire flower in the bonus. The animation goes much faster, enough to beat out getting the 1-life bonus (about 20 frames). This doesn't change how I'll do the first world, since being big would slow me down too much. However, it may be worthwhile to pick up a mushroom before the boss in world 3. I absolutely have to have fireballs all through 4-1 and 4-2. World 2-3 went pretty well, I had some fun sculpting the blocks and in the end I was able to shoot up everything and kill the boss without losing time. So the improvement over my first version so far is about 20 frames or so, but 17300 points. I'll break 200K easily. I don't think there's much improvement possible in worlds 3 and 4, but I'll see what I can do.
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World 3 is now done. I increased my scores in 3-1 and 3-2, but finished with the same framecount. In 3-3 I didn't find anywhere to increase my score, but I did manage to make a platform jump that I had to wait for on the test run. This lets me finish with 358 on the clock instead of 356. Also manipulated the bonus level, so in total I reach the funky Chinese world 118 frames faster with 19320 more points.
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I hadn't thought that this game had hi-jumps off of enemies (hitting A after stomping an enemy, like in Mario 3 and Mario World). So it was a bit of a surprise when messing around, I accidentally performed this. The jump actually wasn't that high, not even as high as a normal jump. However, I haven't been able to repeat it on any other enemy. Most of the time it seems you get another pixel or so, but that's it. Perhaps you have to jump a certain height or do it on a certain enemy? Maybe it was a glitch; the game falsely detected that I had hit the ground? Anyway, does anyone know anything about this? It could potentially be useful in a few places. Since I haven't been able to reproduce it, I don't know if it's important enough for me to redo everything on this run, though I'll investigate to see if there's anywhere I could use it to improve things. EDIT: Still unable to reproduce the high bounce. It might be a glitch that relies on multiple conditions, in which case it's highly unlikely that it will help much. Oh well, I'm going to finish this run and check back in 1-1 and 1-2. If I can't get any use out of this glitch there, then I'm going to have to call it a fluke. 4-2 is done, 24 frames faster than before. This was shaved off of multiple spots, probably the biggest help was taking a hit on the final enemy. Though not much, this bumped me up to the next timeunit, so the level is done with 344 on the clock. Of course, my score is also higher, going into the final level I'm up 20830 points.
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TheAxeMan wrote:
I hadn't thought that this game had hi-jumps off of enemies (hitting A after stomping an enemy, like in Mario 3 and Mario World) .... does anyone know anything about this?
I think you have to jump pretty high, then release A a while before landing on the enemy (after you're near the top of a jump arc, I think) and then press and hold it again a little bit before hitting the enemy. I'm not completely sure about this, but it seems to me that you bounce higher the longer you've been holding the button before hitting the enemy, not counting the button press that initially started the jump.
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Well, I always release A unless I do a max-height jump (15 frames of A). In the case where I did this, I used an 8 or 9 A-frame jump and landed on a higher platform. I was also able to control how high I bounced by changing A frames. In other places throughout the game, I have been able to get an extra pixel or so by holding down A, but this is completely different. I'll do some more testing once I blast the stupid alien, and if I can harness this I'll hex in the changes. If a high jump is required, then this becomes considerably less useful since I need small jumps most of the time for control. UPDATE: Working on 4-3, I think I've figured out the point tallying for invincibility. The score for an invinci-killed enemy is the same as the last enemy you killed normally. So in 4-3 my last kill will be one of those little wiggling things that takes about a dozen shots--800 points. If you keep invinci-killing enemies every second or so, the value goes up: 800, 1000, 2000, 4000. I did a quick mockup through the invincibility period and it seems the enemies come fast enough to keep the chain going. The amount per enemy levels off at 4000. It will be a challenge to keep the multiplier up while also collecting all coins and breaking all blocks, but I think I can work it out. As you can imagine, this is going to up my final score by quite a bit, I should be able to total over 250,000.
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Ok Mario faithful, here's my second pass through Mario Land, featuring major improvements in speed, score and style. That's 149 frames (2.5 seconds) and 71130 points--50300 of which were in the last level. Speedups came from making that platform jump in 3-3 and manipulating the bonus rounds to set me up with a straight shot at what I want. There are some minor optimizations, including beating the final boss a few frames faster. Most of the score difference came from optimizing the forced-scroll levels, but just about every level has a some increase in score. The only reason I'm not submitting at the moment is because I have to test out high-jumping off of enemies. So far I was only able to do it once, but if I can figure this out there are quite a few spots where I could add some more enemy kills. Potentially, this might also allow me to eliminate the short pause in 2-1, but I don't think it will help time anywhere else. Anyway, if I can't repeat this then this is going to be the final version. http://home.comcast.net/~f_amoroso/MarioLand-TheAxeManv0.2.zip ---the stats--- Movie length: 12:15 Final score: 263720 Level finish times: 1-1: 361 1-2: 364 1-3: 362 2-1: 358 2-2: 364 2-3: 265 3-1: 335 3-2: 358 3-3: 358 4-1: 338 4-2: 344 4-3: 207
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Um, you hit Start at the end of the movie again. Did you mean to do that?
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Did he do that? After all it's much better this time.
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Start at the end? It doesn't happen to me.
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Well, that's strange. When I play the movie, the game pauses right after it's done, and I have to hit Start to see the ending. Oh, never mind. It doesn't do that in the currently posted movie. I was using a different movie that I think had been posted in IRC. What was strange about it was that it pressed Start, Select, A, and L all on the last frame, and you're not even supposed to be able to press L on regular Game Boy.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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