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Posted: 4/1/2012 6:56 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Blechy wrote:
Uh oh, found an improvement in early stage 1. In room 6 pass 1 on your map, goofy can actually make it out the right exit faster than Max can.
Thanks. I should be able to edit this in without any problem. I'll let you know how it goes.
Blechy wrote:
Edit: Watched your videos, that boss is insane. We were thinking that double kills might still improve it further, but considering that everything gives you something to throw, might not improve by much. Again I think it's just a case of how far can you push the insane amount of luck in the game.
Yeah, looking back on it, it's pretty quick. I will continue to try to improve it further though before starting on level 2. EDIT: Can you give details on how Goofy reaches the exit faster? I tried using the same strategy but exit the room with Goofy instead of Max, and it was 11 frames slower. I also tried picking up the pot with Max and immediately running to the exit with Goofy, but this was 8 frames slower.
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Posted: 4/1/2012 7:55 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Randil wrote:
EDIT: Can you give details on how Goofy reaches the exit faster? I tried using the same strategy but exit the room with Goofy instead of Max, and it was 11 frames slower. I also tried picking up the pot with Max and immediately running to the exit with Goofy, but this was 8 frames slower.
Sure - Basically after picking up the pot, goofy takes the same path Max does, walking past the switch spot on the right. He should barely make it past the path of the block max kicks before it hits him. In a tas, Max may have to wait a few frames before kicking it.
Posted: 4/1/2012 9:17 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks, it was 5 frames faster, though it did affect the RNG (because of the bee in this room). I will try to remedy this, but if it fails I will need to wait 4 frames to get the same RNG as in the current WIP, thus only saving 1 frame by this. EDIT: Argh, I'm not having much luck. The changed RNG gave me bad pirate movements in room 4. I have managed to get 3 different RNG settings (by making the pirates in room 3 move differently), but all those settings ended up in bad enemy movements for room 4. I also tried editing in the improvement with the same RNG (i.e. wait 4 frames thus only saving 1 frame), but because of a 2 frame rule, the RNG did not stay the same... I will try to fix this, but right now it looks like it might be hard.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 4/6/2012 9:19 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Just watched your WIP, looks very nice so far :)
Posted: 4/12/2012 3:34 PM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Heya, any luck fixing the rng? If it helps, now that we've gotten a good time cyg and I are taking a bit of a break, partially in case you find any new timesavers. So we won't be randomly finding things that would save a few frames way early in the game. :]
Posted: 4/12/2012 5:33 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Well, I must admit that I haven't had much time lately to look into this. I hope to have some time to look into this weekend. I would like to understand better how the RNG works, maybe then I can better predict and plan how to alter RNG dependent rooms. I'll keep you posted on my progress. EDIT: Also, 2000 posts, yay! :) EDIT2: I've had some time to work on this now, and I have some news: I've discovered several more frame rules in this game - there are frame rules for screen transitions and when enemies start to move once you've entered a room. This has an impact on rooms where enemy movements are crucial. Those 5 frames I gained turned into 3, then to 9, and then down 4, so the gain keeps oscillating because of these frames rules. Right now I've just reached room 9, so I'm pretty close to the boss. I think I might be able to save some frames in room 8, though - I lost 5 frames in this room alone, which stings a lot, so I will try to win them back. If anyone wants to take a look at how the run looks now, I've uploaded it here: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1814839486/goof_troop_new.smv Note that I might abandon this and go with my previous WIP if this doesn't end up well (for example, if I get horrible luck on the boss no matter how hard I try to remedy it).
My own page on this site.
Posted: 5/20/2012 2:13 AM
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narutosasukefx1998
Joined: 5/20/2012
Posts: 5
where is randil
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:16 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
narutosasukefx1998 wrote:
where is randil
I'm still here! I haven't forgotten about this, but progress has been slow lately. I'm still working on this though. I'll try to have something new to post about in a few weeks or so.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 10/13/2012 7:01 AM
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Orange_Claw_Hammer
Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 99
hey randil so what happened with this
Posted: 10/13/2012 7:34 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Hi! Work, lack of time (and motivation), and some computer problems has put this on ice. Although not cancelled, this project will probably drag out a bit more. I'm strongly considering switching emulator to BizHawk, mostly due to the text based movie file format, which will make things a lot easier for me. This will probably mean I'll have to redo the part of level 1 I've finished, but I think it's worth the investment. The most immediate obstacle right now is that my computer has been running very slowly lately, but when I get it running normally again I'd like to get back to TASing some again.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 10/13/2012 4:18 PM
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Orange_Claw_Hammer
Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 99
oh i see, thanks for the update. just so you know, other improvements have come to light recently (including a stage 1 improvement courtesy of alko/edenal), and blechy & i have some more ideas to test still in stage 5. understandable that the luck system in this game might be a damper on motivation. glad to hear you're still interested though !
Posted: 10/13/2012 8:13 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I am still definitely interested in any new improvementes you find, so please do post them here! :) In related news, I converted the current WIP to BizHawk, and added a few frames here and there before level 1 to see if it synched. It worked ok, by adding frames here and there I've managed to get it to synch more than half way through level 1.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 10/14/2012 2:50 AM
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Orange_Claw_Hammer
Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 99
ah, good to hear about bizhawk anyway, here are improvements that have come to light since this thread was last active: stage 1 room before the 2nd puzzle room: it's 10 frames or so faster to have goofy grapple the barrel in the bottom-left of the screen and throw it at the guy immediately stage 3 3rd room of the level: goofy throws pots at the top right and bottom left switches (and walks on the bottom right switch) while max grabs the hookshot, walks near the exit, hooks the top-right barrel against the top wall, and throws it at the top left switch. subsequently, goofy is able to pick up the plank in the room with the row of living armors, saving max some walking time, though goofy is only able to pick up one of the 3 pots on the far left wall (i think in the current TAS he picks up two of them, but i could be wrong, too lazy to check). goofy game overs at the end of the next room with the cannon, and respawns as soon as max has switched selected item from hookshot to plank in the following room. we also changed the route for the set of three rooms beginning with the O P E N room, but i think it might be slower for TAS. i'll have to get back to you on that. and again, we have some untested ideas in stage 5.
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