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Editor, Experienced player (608)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4012
sonicpacker wrote:
It is time, my friends!! We must UNITE!!
Glad to hear you'll be working on this! I hope you can beat wellbe6's three unproven single star times. By the way, would timing be done SM64-style, or using the in-game timer?
Active player (419)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Personally, I believe the in-game timer is the best option. In SM64, star times are different because Mario needs to hit the ground to begin his celebration. In both SMG games, once you hit the star, you're good to go.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4137)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
Can't wait to see some SMG2 TASes coming up, even if only a few single star runs.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Active player (419)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Not that I'm going to make one...but would a Mario run be preferred over a run that starts from SRAM with Luigi on the site? Edit: Also, is there anywhere someone can link me to that details some tricks for this game?
Joined: 12/5/2011
Posts: 16
http://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Super_Mario_Galaxy_2 IMO Luigi run would be much more interesting because of some nice tricks Mario can't do.
Active player (419)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
This is just a test so I could see how some of this game's physics work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgoC8lzLlUM This isn't WR or anything. I was just trying to see how much Dolphin has improved. I will probably redo this and upload it as public. It's also a quality test, so let me know how you guys feel about that. Trying to TAS this game isn't really worth it at the moment. Dolphin is pretty difficult to work with for Wii games (that don't use the GC controller). It's definitely improved in terms of desynchs, but it's still not quite practical enough for efficient TASing to be done.
Joined: 7/22/2010
Posts: 53
sonicpacker wrote:
This is just a test so I could see how some of this game's physics work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgoC8lzLlUM This isn't WR or anything. I was just trying to see how much Dolphin has improved. I will probably redo this and upload it as public. It's also a quality test, so let me know how you guys feel about that. Trying to TAS this game isn't really worth it at the moment. Dolphin is pretty difficult to work with for Wii games (that don't use the GC controller). It's definitely improved in terms of desynchs, but it's still not quite practical enough for efficient TASing to be done.
Video quality looks great but what's going on with the sky behind Luigi at the end? The textures look crazy.
Active player (432)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Very nice video sonicpacker, I expect nothing less from you :) By the way, don't tell me you have abandon that sonic run of yours? :((
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Active player (419)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Would someone who knows this games' physics be able to explain how datteo managed to catch up so much in the air: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukg1bkJ5j0I As you can see, I started my long jump long before he did in his non-TAS run, but I only managed to beat him to the star by 6 frames.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
sonicpacker wrote:
Would someone who knows this games' physics be able to explain how datteo managed to catch up so much in the air
He was further back so the angular momentum is greater on the flip thing. Also he was spinning while landing from the long jump to regain control quicker. You should check out Fusik's link from a few posts back. Edit: man that faceship sky is poorly emulated, considering how good everything else looks.
Active player (419)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
bkDJ wrote:
He was further back so the angular momentum is greater on the flip thing. Also he was spinning while landing from the long jump to regain control quicker. You should check out Fusik's link from a few posts back.
I did. There's no landing lag if you press Z+A on or roughly on the same frame to LJ. So I don't know what you mean by spinning while landing giving him control quicker. As for the first part, from what I could tell, the only thing that changes based on your position on the platforms is the height you LJ. When you're closer to the center (or at least for me), you go lower. I never noticed any speed differences...though it is difficult to test with a controller and no memory watch. Edit: Well not NO landing lag, but a significant amount less. Spinning makes you slow down as well afaik...
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Re: landing lag: I thought spinning while landing didn't incur the slowdown of a mid-air spin, so never mind about that :P I got 242 stars when this came out and haven't touched it since then. Anyway, momentum imparted by objects (whether it's slowly moving platforms or those flippy ones) behaves differently than your own running and jumping, probably with the goal of making it easy to stay on mobile clouds and on-rails platforms moving through what are essentially autoscroll levels. So him moving faster in the air probably has to do with the (angular) speed of the platform as he left it. But yeah, without ram watching, it would be hard to pin down perfect angles and timings.
Active player (419)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
It appears to be in part (or maybe completely) because of his spin. Take a look at this video. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 0:21, when Luigi LJs out of a spin, it seems like he has a little bit more speed than he gets with a regular LJ.
Active player (456)
Joined: 11/12/2010
Posts: 183
Location: Sweden
It might not just be so "simple" as the spin cancels the beginning accelleration of the LJ, and goes with full speed instantly? I haven't played this game so I don't know for sure, just theorizing here.
"An artist who can’t take constructive critique on their work is only hurting themselves and their potential. Conversely, and artist that can’t communicate a critique in a constructive way isn’t helping anybody."
JoselleAstrid
She/Her
Joined: 9/9/2013
Posts: 35
Hey, so I've started to do some SMG2 testing in Dolphin to help develop real-time speedrun strategies. I've been working on trying to understand midair rock jumps (here's a demo video). Up to now, we've only known how to do a double rock jump (i.e. one midair jump) with somewhat good consistency; no one's known how to do three or more rock jumps with any consistency. And more to the point, we've just never really known how these rock jumps work. Here's a Google doc of my findings after a few days of testing. So far, I've gotten some good info on how the jumps work, and I'm pretty sure this means a TAS can easily do an infinite rock jump. But there aren't any groundbreaking real-time strategies yet. There's two methods to do double rock jumps fairly consistently (both were already more or less known). More notably, there's one method for a triple rock jump, but it's still difficult and random (I tried for about 15 minutes, and got it 8 times). There isn't a method for four jumps and beyond besides just mashing A and hoping. One major problem is the lack of an exact pattern as to what frames the rock spins actually come out on. This is what the timing of the A presses is based on, unfortunately. If anyone is interested in continuing my work, I've made a spreadsheet with a bunch of tests that I did. Perhaps someone else can notice relevant pattern(s) in the spin timings that I didn't see.
JoselleAstrid
She/Her
Joined: 9/9/2013
Posts: 35
So there's this thing that's been annoying me during basic testing, and it would also annoy anyone trying to remotely optimize Galaxy TASes at all: When I press Z, Mario crouches either 1 or 2 frames later. The problem is, I have no idea when it's 1 frame and when it's 2 frames. 2 frames is the more common case, but 1 frame would obviously be more useful. This affects the timing of inputs required to execute long jumps and backflips. If anyone feels like helping out with Galaxy TASing/Dolphin testing, investigating this would be a big help.
Skilled player (1705)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
yoshifan wrote:
So there's this thing that's been annoying me during basic testing, and it would also annoy anyone trying to remotely optimize Galaxy TASes at all: When I press Z, Mario crouches either 1 or 2 frames later. The problem is, I have no idea when it's 1 frame and when it's 2 frames. 2 frames is the more common case, but 1 frame would obviously be more useful. This affects the timing of inputs required to execute long jumps and backflips. If anyone feels like helping out with Galaxy TASing/Dolphin testing, investigating this would be a big help.
I have no clue about the mechanics of this game, but maybe it's a frame rule of some sort? Have you tried pressing "z" while going to a different direction/spot on the exact same frame?
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4014
yoshifan wrote:
So there's this thing that's been annoying me during basic testing, and it would also annoy anyone trying to remotely optimize Galaxy TASes at all: When I press Z, Mario crouches either 1 or 2 frames later. The problem is, I have no idea when it's 1 frame and when it's 2 frames. 2 frames is the more common case, but 1 frame would obviously be more useful. This affects the timing of inputs required to execute long jumps and backflips. If anyone feels like helping out with Galaxy TASing/Dolphin testing, investigating this would be a big help.
Is it correlated with... -Mario's position? -The kind of surface Mario is on? -What frame of animation Mario is currently in? -Some global timer?
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
JoselleAstrid
She/Her
Joined: 9/9/2013
Posts: 35
Patashu wrote:
Is it correlated with... -Mario's position? -The kind of surface Mario is on? -What frame of animation Mario is currently in? -Some global timer?
None of these, as far as I can tell. I've been testing at the beginning of Beat Block star 1, where it's just flat ground; and I've tested just standing still on the same spot, just crouching multiple times in a row. Often, Mario would quick crouch (i.e. in 1 frame) the first time, and then slow crouch on the second time, third time, etc. Actually, this might be a decent lead: After some testing, there was one time where the quick crouch (i.e. in 1 frame) always happened on the first crouch I did after doing a backflip, or after doing a spin pound. But never the second crouch, third crouch, etc. After testing some more, this no longer happened, but I would occasionally get the quick crouch on the second crouch after a backflip or something (I don't remember exactly what I did). After testing some more, neither of the above happened, and I couldn't trigger any quick crouches at all. ...Well, after more testing, Mario's occasionally doing the quick crouch when I'm just sitting here crouching and uncrouching. Doesn't have to be the first or second crouch after anything. I still don't think it's animation related, since I think I'm getting quick and slow crouches on the same number of frames after uncrouching; but I could be wrong.
Experienced player (703)
Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
I'm really up to TAS completely this game with you, I can find some values like Speed, I can't assure it but it should be possible :) Add me in Skype: got4n123
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
JoselleAstrid
She/Her
Joined: 9/9/2013
Posts: 35
Hey got4n, thanks for the offer. I don't personally have plans to work on a full TAS or individual level TASes right now, though. My current goal is to develop real-time speedrun strategies as much as possible in the next 3 months, for a live run at Awesome Games Done Quick (speedrun marathon event in early January). About position and velocity values, I've found pointers for those. Basically, the values change location whenever you go to a different level (Sky Station star 1, Yoshi Star star 1, Yoshi Star star 2, and the Starship all have different locations for it). However, there are pointers that you can use to track the moving position and velocity values. But the pointers (well, at least the one I use) also move depending on whether you're Mario or Luigi. So I found a pointer to one of those pointers, which can be used to track the position and velocity values whether you're Mario or Luigi. Here's a Lua script you can run in Cheat Engine to display these values (based on Masterjun's script in the Dolphin subforum): http://pastebin.com/7AU6txZg However, these speed and position pointers may not be the most stable ones out there. There are some locations (like the pipe room in Fluffy Bluff galaxy, behind the tree) where occasionally, the speed goes to 0 and the position fails to update for a frame. This can be annoying when doing frame by frame testing. For example: Position 3000 | Speed 15 Position 3000 | Speed 0 Position 3030 | Speed 15 This is how I would expect it to go: Position 3000 | Speed 15 Position 3015 | Speed 15 Position 3030 | Speed 15 I'm not sure if it's the values themselves or the pointers that become unstable. It would be good to investigate this more. More things that could be quite useful - finding values that correspond to: (1) The direction of Mario's velocity (2) The direction Mario is facing (3) The direction of Mario's gravity Also, I've been working on learning about the speed, distance, and timing properties of Mario's (and Luigi's) various moves. Here is a folder with the findings so far: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B96ZPjx3B1RqRUlhcjQ3WmNDUms&usp=sharing Here is the most general, info-packed document - a bunch of speed and timing info: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Se76mcQjJtO-A5aCscW1z2SmeheoMkDxnoeNxnxZQNc/edit?usp=sharing There's still much more that can be looked into, but I think I'm done for the time being (going to work on level specific strategies now). Feel free to look into anything I haven't covered; I'd really appreciate it!
Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Wow, you're really doing quite a research man, it's cool to see your effort to discover things in this game, 'cause even if you're most interested on building new strategies for a real time speedrun, these findings can help the TAS world for sure. Keep it up =D
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