Yes for human.
For wolf, you want to dash nonstop (press A 3 frames before Dash shows up over the A button). You can dash often enough that your speed will never drop.
If you can't dash for whatever reason (after or before jumping off a ledge), then i believe side hopping is faster than running, but i'd have to double check how long wolf link stays in the air during a sidehop. It's probably faster to just delay dashing to ensure you can always dash right before jumping, thereby allowing you to dash again after you land, but i guess we'll have to see if that is always possible.
Also, i'm not sure what the fastest way to move across sloped land is. Going downhill incurs a very, very slight penalty to speed, that would never change anything. Going up hill however can sometimes slow you down quite a bit, to the point where rolling is slower than sidehopping is on flat ground. However you also land more often when going uphill, which drops your speed to 0 for 3 frames each time when sidehopping. I would imagine that sidehopping will still be slower in all cases, but i don't know.
edit: Wolf side hop is 12 frames of 33, followed by 2 frames of 0 speed, giving an average speed of 28.29. Definitely faster to sidehop than run.
edit2: 5 frames after you can first dash again your speed starts to drop. It drops by 1.8 per frame, until it gets back down to 25.
More damage tests done on the mini boss in the first dungeon (200 max hp):
master sword JS: 60
spin attack: 60
bombs: 200+ (the fuck?)
Wooden sword does half the damage of ordon sword.
I'm fairly sure the walking forward slashes do less damage than standard slashes or thrusts.
That does 2 damage with MS, 1 with ordon sword, and none with wood sword.
Bombs appear to do exactly 200 damage. I tested by editing its hp though, so no promises that it isn't limited to his normal max hp.
EDIT: You could test slingshot, hero's bow, Ball & chain (especially interested in this one) and clawshot damage if you'd like.
I already tested the first 3. I'll get back to you on clawshot.
edit: Clawshot did no damage to boomerang ape. Tried to test it on a random enemy, but i could not find it's hp in ram at all. The two bosses i tried were both very easy to find, even without knowing how much damage each attack did. I even tried searching 1 byte addresses, and still nothing.
EDIT: You could test slingshot, hero's bow, Ball & chain (especially interested in this one) and clawshot damage if you'd like.
I already tested the first 3. I'll get back to you on clawshot.
edit: Clawshot did no damage to boomerang ape. Tried to test it on a random enemy, but i could not find it's hp in ram at all. The two bosses i tried were both very easy to find, even without knowing how much damage each attack did. I even tried searching 1 byte addresses, and still nothing.
Oh whoops, not sure how I missed that. None of the bosses/mini bosses are actually damaged by the clawshot, so it's probably 0 since that's what slingshot does as well. The only thing i can think of that are actually killed by the clawshot are keese, but you're not gonna find a static address for their HP anyway. Thanks for the info!
Pulling out the lantern is 5 frames slower than swinging it when it's already out.
Also, my new cpu (2500k)+mobo will be here today, so i'll be restarting this tomorrow, once i've got it set up, and overclocked, and all that fun stuff.
That's great news. I thought GPU performance would be more important than CPU, though, but I've never tried Dolphin so I don't know if it's CPU-bound.
For the ball and chain value, is that while swinging it or throwing it, or is it 30 no matter what?
Definitely not. gpu hardly matters at all for dolphin, unless you want to run at very high resolutions, which i don't. I've got a 5770, which isn't the best, but will more than handle dolphin.
It's the same either way.
New route
Link to video
As best i can tell, this should skip killing bugs, and everything in forest temple other than boomerang. I'm not sure at this point though. Ending blow can be learned elsewhere, and bite can be used to get to kakariko. I guess i'll need to do a test run to make sure everything actually works.
Route should apparently be the usual up until twilight, then skip bugs, do EMS, go to forest temple, get boomerang, savewarp, escape twilight, rupee dive to lakebed, then BiTE, eldin twilight, etc. Still subject to change though.
New tentative route:
Normal route to master sword, but skip bugs
Get ooccoo and boomerang in forest temple
leave
escape twilight
kill messengers at kakariko gorge
clear lanayru twilight
steal bomb bag with forest ooccoo
rupee dive to lakebed
save and reset
start a new game
clip gate, and do BiTE
Kill bublin
clear eldin twilight
rupee dive to lakebed again
finish the game
The new route looks awesome! No killing bugs means no collecting tears either, so this route already cuts out one of the least entertaining parts of the real time speedrun! Great job planning the route and I'm looking forward to your WIPs.
It only skips the faron bugs. All the others still need to be done. It's definitely a nice change though, especially with the forest temple boss skip.
And now i'm curious if any other tas quits the game and starts a brand new file in the middle of the run.
May i ask why you need to start a new file? it's got me even more interested in this run then i was before
For BiTE. It requires jumping into a void, and since i was planning to do it as soon as i entered lakebed, the fastest place to do it would be to start a new game.
Since i'm retarded and that doesn't work, and i need to reload the game after saving in lakebed anyway, it's probably faster to just warp out and do it elsewhere. I'll need to test that.
Well since you're skipping Faron bugs the BiTE needs to be done in Lakebed after Kakariko Gorge. I dunno where the Ooccoo in Forest Temple is, but I think grabbing the one in Lakebed is gonna be faster since you actually need to return there later. After you warp out of Lakebed w/ Ooccoo you can just warp to north faron and do the BiTE there by doing an LJA out of bounds. That's probably also faster than starting a new file.
New, possibly final route:
Normal route up to EMS, skip bugs
forest temple to boomerang
save reset
escape twilight
Kill messengers in kakariko gorge, and warp back to faron
escape twilight
rupee dive to lakebed
save reset
start a new game, and bite
kill bulblin
clear eldin twilight
warp to faron
escape twilight for a third time
rupee dive to lakebed again
get ooccoo and leave
clear lanayru twilight
steal bomb bag, and continue with previous route
As far as i can tell, this seems to be the only working route. Everything else either dead ends, or doesn't make any sense. It wastes a bunch of time running all over the place, but it's the only way to beat the game, and still saves a ton of time.
I'm currently working on a test run, which is up to starting eldin twilight. I'll post an encode once it's done (might be a week). If anyone wants the .dtm before then, just ask.
Demonstration of the new route. Ignore my horrible playing.
Thanks for the demo; just watched it. The playing was fine... what's the most the optimized version will cut out of it? A little more than 5 minutes over the whole hour shown? Or am I underestimating what effect precise movements will have? Anyway, here are some comments (none helpful, I'm sure) I wrote down while watching:
1) It's a shame the GCN version of this game doesn't support widescreen
2) Is that hit taken by the spider on the vine wall around 25m26s necessary to get up quicker? Feel free to ignore this if it's an example of "horrible" since it was really the only moment that looked so. :P
3) the final run shouldn't have that annoying "Can't Skip" sound over and over in unskippable cutscenes
4) What kind of trigger are you LJA'ing over every time you go to Hyrule field?
1) there's a widescreen hack in dolphin, but it blurs the hell out of any water, making it useless for tp :(
2) that would be the horrible play. I also missed a ledge when jumping across the pillars in the misty area, and had to climb up. Neither of these were necessary, i just didn't feel like luck manipulating the spiders, or getting the jump perfect, but i did still want to include them.
3) of course.
4) The kind that tells you to go beat the forest temple, and sends you back.
With this route, we're probably talking 2-3 minutes faster at best. However, it's already changed in a few places.
1) bite can be done from forest temple. Since we save here anyway, it's the fastest place to do it, since you can just turn around, lja over the load zone and bit. This would save around 30 seconds i believe.
2) Logi timed it out to be faster to clear the twilight than to skip it. This is terrible because the route is significantly less awesome. I'm going to time it out myself to make sure, since a lot of his timings don't apply to tas (there are a lot of extra load screens if you skip clearing twilight, which are much faster on dolphin).
3) apparently if you get ooccoo in one dungeon and don't use it, you can use it in another dungeon. With that, we can get ooccoo in forest temple, which takes an extra 10 seconds or so to get to, but allows us to warp out immediately on the second trip to lakebed, saving ~1:30.
Are you able to lja bit in the forest temple without buffering? It should be doable on console.
Also it's really confusing when you say things like "bite can be done from the forest temple" when you mean that you can perform the bit for bite in the forest temple.
