The current TASVideos motto, "When human skills are just not enough", sounds stilted and unnatural. "When human skills just aren't enough" is the more fluent and aesthetic version of the phrase.
And while we're on the subject of the NW corner of the homepage, "Tool-assisted game movies" seems under specified and misleading. Surely that should be "Tool-assisted video game movies"?
And as an added bonus, if you implement both my changes, the lengths of both lines match up perfectly, giving very pleasing symmetry.
Old and bustedThe new hotness
I'm not saying you're dumb if you disagree with me, but you're dumb if you disagree with me.
I approve "video game" thing, but all that 's don't need to be in the motto.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
I've got a motto for you:
tasvideos - When aspies get way too much free time.
This.
This may pop up when cursor hovers over the picture. Would be genious.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I approve "video game" thing, but all that 's don't need to be in the motto.
It's not about what "needs to be", it's about what sounds best to a proficient native speaker. I'm a well-read native speaker of American English. It's a reasonable assumption that my lifetime of experience with the language has better prepared me to make judgments of English aesthetics than yours.
For example, just in this thread you have committed numerous blunders:
I approve "video game" thing should be I approve the "video game" thing.
all that 's don't need to be should be that 's doesn't need to be. (Or, if there were more than one 's, all those 's don't need to be.)
when cursor hovers should be when the cursor hovers.
Would be genious should be Would be genius.
Since you are (I assume, based on your location information) a native Russian, a logical explanation exists for why your English is worse than mine. If you believe I am acting in good faith, it would be reasonable for you to defer to my opinion on this issue.
Now, if a proficient native speaker of British English came along and said, "I disagree, on this side of the pond we prefer the motto the way it is currently written," then perhaps we could have a discussion about whether pleasing symmetry was a good enough reason to show favoritism to American English in this instance. But as it happens, I consulted a proficient native speaker of British English, and he agrees with me.
If justifying (ie. aligning left and right) the two lines is desired, there's no need to change the contents of the text simply to achieve that effect. Any sufficiently advanced text editor (or, in this case, any image manipulation program with a sufficiently advanced text object) will allow you to justify the text by automatically adjusting the font spacing. It will look good as long as the two lines were even marginally close in length to each other to begin with.
It's not about what "needs to be", it's about what sounds best to a proficient native speaker. I'm a well-read native speaker of American English. It's a reasonable assumption that my lifetime of experience with the language has better prepared me to make judgments of English aesthetics than yours.
Are we arguing semantics here? :|
"just aren't enough" vs "just are not enough"?
I'm inclined towards the later (yes, I know it's spelled latter, but later sounds better ^_^)...
Also, tasvideos is an international site, so IMO it would be better to base a decision of what all members, native British or American or not, thinks. Both are proper english...
"When human skills are just not enough" implies that human skills are insufficient for the task at hand. "When human skills just aren't/are not enough" implies that human skills do nothing, other than fall short when you use them. I say we leave it as is.
I'm a well-read native speaker of American English. It's a reasonable assumption that my lifetime of experience with the language has better prepared me to make judgments of English aesthetics than yours.
Pointless Boy wrote:
For example, just in this thread you have committed numerous blunders:
Pointless Boy wrote:
Since you are (I assume, based on your location information) a native Russian, a logical explanation exists for why your English is worse than mine. If you believe I am acting in good faith, it would be reasonable for you to defer to my opinion on this issue.
The opening post could be considered marginally funny, but here you are going way too far. There are things you should not say, and these are a few of them.
If justifying (ie. aligning left and right) the two lines is desired, there's no need to change the contents of the text simply to achieve that effect. Any sufficiently advanced text editor (or, in this case, any image manipulation program with a sufficiently advanced text object) will allow you to justify the text by automatically adjusting the font spacing. It will look good as long as the two lines were even marginally close in length to each other to begin with.
My post was about more than looking good, though. It was also about sounding good. (In fact, it was primarily about sounding good. If you reread my post, you will note the pleasing visual symmetry that resulted from my suggestion was an "added bonus", not the stated goal.)
I want the motto and descriptive blurb to both look and sound good. As it stands, they both look and sound bad, to me. And as a highly proficient native speaker of American English, and as someone that consulted a highly proficient native speaker of British English, my opinion really and truly is the only one -- so far expressed in this thread -- that should matter, assuming you take at face value my claims of being an English expert, and insofar as you believe a general consensus would exist between me and other experts with regards to this issue. (Note that an argument from authority, though often universally decried on the internet as fallacious, is perfectly valid in this case.)
If you wish to represent yourself as an English expert, and your opinion differs substantially from my own, then I am prepared to debate the merits of your opinions, and perhaps even be swayed by them. Or if you don't want to engage in constructive argument, you may attempt to weaken my position by attacking my presumption of expertise, perhaps, for example, by citing my nonstandard use of punctuation in and around quotation marks. (Honestly, though, I wouldn't advise it.)
EDIT: It's also worth pointing out that the text in question isn't currently represented graphically, so if you agree the visual symmetry is pleasing, there is some merit to using phrases that happen to line up when displayed under default browser settings. If there is an uncomplicated cross-browser method for achieving justified alignment, or including the title, subtitle, and motto in the logo graphic is seen as a valid option, then obviously the visual symmetry argument alone shouldn't motivate a change.
Are we arguing semantics here? :|
"just aren't enough" vs "just are not enough"?
I'm inclined towards the later (yes, I know it's spelled latter, but later sounds better ^_^)...
Also, tasvideos is an international site, so IMO it would be better to base a decision of what all members, native British or American or not, thinks. Both are proper english...
I think you've already disqualified yourself as a plausible expert, so your opinion -- solely regarding "what sounds best to a proficient native speaker" -- doesn't matter. It also doesn't seem like you read the entirety of my posts, as I already addressed the possibility that my opinion differs substantially from that of a British English expert, and mentioned that the British English expert I consulted agreed with me.
So it appears there is no controversy with respect to showing favoritism to one dialect of English over another. (I think we are all agreed the only dialects we need to consider are American English and British English, as they are the most globally dominant English dialects and the de facto standards for international communication in English.)
snorlax wrote:
"When human skills are just not enough" implies that human skills are insufficient for the task at hand. "When human skills just aren't/are not enough" implies that human skills do nothing, other than fall short when you use them. I say we leave it as is.
None of the experts I have consulted (four Americans, including myself, and one Brit) agrees with you. All five of us find both phrases to be entirely equivalent in meaning, but favor "when human skills just aren't enough" because it sounds more natural and fluent. It "just sounds better."
I also consulted thirteen other native speakers who I don't consider to be experts (so I find their opinions less persuasive, but they are fluent nonetheless), and none of them made the distinction that you did. There also wasn't a consensus among them which version of the phrase sounded better, though it is interesting to note none of them strongly favored the current version. (Also, everyone consulted, expert and nonexpert alike, noted that the uncontracted "when human skill just are not enough" sounds unnatural.)
So far, it appears people either have a weak preference for the current version, no preference at all, or a strong preference for my version.
FractalFusion wrote:
The opening post could be considered marginally funny, but here you are going way too far. There are things you should not say, and these are a few of them.
Why shouldn't I say them? I didn't call him stupid. I called him less expert in English than me, which is very relevant to this discussion. Perhaps it was unnecessary to point out his errors, but I find people often have inflated opinions of their own expertise in almost every field. Nonexperts in particular fall prey to this phenomenon -- as is well attested in the literature -- so I thought it prudent to make self-evident his lack of expertise. That being said, his grasp of conversational English, though riddled with various grammatical and spelling errors, is excellent. His English is certainly better than any nonnative language I've ever attempted to learn.
DarkMoon wrote:
Why isn't it in Spanish? Y'all are a bunch of racists.
I fully support a Spanish translation of the site, though I'm not going to be the one to make it (or make judgments about what sounds best in Spanish), as my Spanish sucks.
Pointless Boy,
Opinions are much like arseholes. Everyone has one and they usually stink.
That being said, the danger of riding a high horse is finding ones parachute fails on the way down.
This is a Global community, not a small Private Club with exclusive membership to the privledged ones. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to stay here or be a part of the community in any respect.
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
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<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Pointless Boy:
Just because you are an "English expert" doesn't mean that your opinion is the only one valid in this thread.
True, in theory, but as I am the only person (in this thread, so far) to both claim expertise and express a strong preference, my opinion is the only one that matters (in this thread, so far.)
Your opinion, for example -- solely regarding "what sounds best to a proficient native speaker" -- doesn't matter. You are not a native speaker of English. Though your grasp of conversational English is great, you frequently make obvious errors that betray you. You say things like "is the only one valid" which sounds stilted and unnatural to native speakers. (It should be "is the only valid one", if you care.) Most of your exposure to English likely comes from tv, movies, video games, and the internet. You simply don't have the mastery of English necessary to have a meaningful opinion about the very specific issue brought up in my OP.
Now, if you disagree with the idea that "TASVideos, wherever it uses English (or any language), should endeavor to use the best sounding and most correct phrasing possible, in order to facilitate communication and so as not to needlessly promulgate erroneous usage", then say so. But if not, you should defer to actual experts to make judgments like the one in the OP. You can rest assured I will happily defer to you on all stylistic judgments related to Spanish, or whatever your native language may be. (I assume it is Spanish because you claim to be from Chile.)
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Mr. Kelly R. Flewin,
I do not believe you came to this thread in good faith and with intent to express a constructive opinion about the matter put forth in the OP.
Opinions are much like arseholes. Everyone has one and they usually stink.
It is difficult to interpret this as anything but an ad hominem attack. It doesn't offend me, but it does bother me that you might think this is a valid method of debate.
That being said, the danger of riding a high horse is finding ones parachute fails on the way down.
This faux folksy colloquial wisdom is as cryptic as it is irrelevant to the matter at hand.
This is a Global community, not a small Private Club with exclusive membership to the privledged ones.
I am confused by this comment. It suggests you believe that I think TASVideos is (or should be) a "small Private Club" and that I should be one of the "privledged" members. (The correct spelling is privileged, by the way. To get back to the actual point of the thread for a moment, I believe this error, among others, precludes you from plausibly representing yourself as an expert on English usage and style, despite British English apparently being your native language.)
Anyway, I don't see where I have expressed or even implied such a preposterous idea, so your wild accusation is hard to interpret.
If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to stay here or be a part of the community in any respect.
It is difficult to interpret this as anything but a passive-aggressive attack, and a misplaced one at that, considering that I appear to like, enjoy, and respect (most of) TASVideos enough to spend time and effort attempting to improve it. As I mentioned previously, I believe TASVideos, wherever it uses English (or any language), should endeavor to use the best sounding and most correct phrasing possible, in order to facilitate communication and so as not to needlessly promulgate erroneous usage.
Recall when CoolKirby coolly mentioned, "Newcomers are the ones that are going to look in that corner and this graphic helps them form an opinion of our site." I, too, believe it is important for TASVideos to put its best foot forward -- something which you are assuredly failing to do right now -- and to that end I suggested a minor correction to a prominent portion of the site. Do you have anything to add to that discussion? (Though, as I've explained, your opinion on the stylistic merits of the phrasing itself is not likely to be persuasive, you might still say something like, "I like the look of the matching line lengths. All other things being equal, I support the change on the basis of visual appeal.")
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[Images deleted]
TRIPLE POST ALERT CALL THE COPS
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Agreement and an interesting point from a friend of mine whose grasp of English is likely equivalent to mine or better:
(12:57:29 AM) : i like "just aren't enough" quite a bit better. "are just not enough" is either a stilted way to say the former OR it makes a false claim: that human skills can 'nearly' match a TAS
And because he deserves it:
(12:58:44 AM) : lol Mr. Kelly R. Flewin is amazing
(12:58:48 AM) : what a horrible, horrible post
(12:58:49 AM) : lmao
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Edit by FractalFusion: Three posts merged. Images deleted for being disruptive and unnecessary to the discussion at hand.
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I'm not saying you're dumb if you disagree with me, but you're dumb if you disagree with me.
