Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
IronSlayer wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
Punk/Alternative Rock > Metal
Any day.
I would actually love to hear any modern-day punk or alternative that doesn't suck. (The only punk/alternative that I enjoy is from the 70s and 80s) Are there any particular recommendations you have in mind?
Zebrahead or Sum 41. You can call Sum 41 mainstream as much as you'd like, but the fact is, they make good music. Whether it's their old "pop" punk stuff, or their newer, harder feel. As for Zebrahead...here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSwnLdXWmv4 (harder)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu3sePCAdUE (medium)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NQbGlAWokU (softer)
And for the record, I do like some metal instrumentals, but I CANNOT STAND a large majority of the vocal work. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raRHUG0PkQU
Why would anyone prefer the vocals from 0:03 - 0:31 over 0:32 - 0:45? The chorus is so much more melodic and pleasant to hear...
In short:
melodic yelling of punk/alt mixed with melodic singing > screaming of metal mixed with melodic singing
Ah, too bad. Which albums did you try? If anything, Flood is my favorite, but it's as far from anything punk as it gets.
I've only heard a few songs on Youtube, no full-length album. I'll check out "Flood" though, thanks.
sonicpacker wrote:
Zebrahead or Sum 41. You can call Sum 41 mainstream as much as you'd like, but the fact is, they make good music. Whether it's their old "pop" punk stuff, or their newer, harder feel. As for Zebrahead...here you go:
I was a huge fan of Sum 41 when I was 13 years old. Loved their stuff. (I'm 24 now) I tried listening to them again a few years ago, and hated it. Way too simplistic and generic. Also, I've always considered them kind of a "pop rock" band, certainly not punk.
And it's weird that you cite them considering you said you dislike metal; their "new, harder feel" is supposedly inspired by their guitarists' love of metal, according to the band itself.
sonicpacker wrote:
Thanks for the links.
Honestly, to me they sound exactly like a million other pop punk and alt rock bands. Simplistic, boring riffs. Crappy high-pitched rapping. No real melody. Not sure why you broke it up into "harder", "medium", or "softer"; none of it sounds remotely heavy. They're soft pop songs.
They sound like a slightly better Limp Bizkit, and believe me, that's a bad thing.
Anywho, if people are posting links, I might as well mention one of the strangest and most unique "metal bands" ever, if you can even call them that. ("Band" as well as "metal")
Ayreon is one guy that gets a bunch of different people to work on each of his albums. The music is a mix of metal, rock, classical music, and folk music, including wind instruments like digirus. (Seriously...) There are usually about 20 different singers on each album plus entire orchestras.
Each album is also a concept album with a specific story plus an overarching science fiction plot. The albums are ridiculously long; 15-20 songs, and many over 10 minutes in long.
It's like a bizarre metal opera, and unlike anything I have ever heard before;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iefHFBZp6NAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7mmusY0Enw
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
IronSlayer wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
Zebrahead or Sum 41. You can call Sum 41 mainstream as much as you'd like, but the fact is, they make good music. Whether it's their old "pop" punk stuff, or their newer, harder feel. As for Zebrahead...here you go:
I was a huge fan of Sum 41 when I was 13 years old. Loved their stuff. (I'm 24 now) I tried listening to them again a few years ago, and hated it. Way too simplistic and generic. Also, I've always considered them kind of a "pop rock" band, certainly not punk.
And it's weird that you cite them considering you said you dislike metal; their "new, harder feel" is supposedly inspired by their guitarists' love of metal, according to the band itself.
Like I said, I like some metal instrumentals. Not the screaming (note the difference between yelling and screaming). Sum 41 doesn't scream. I don't consider them "punk" either. I consider their older stuff (Half Hour of Power, All Killer No Filler) pop punk which isn't like regular punk at all. Anything after that point mixes rock and metal (mostly rock). Perhaps you would like their newest album that was released in March. I definitely recommend checking it out if you used to like them.
IronSlayer wrote:
Thanks for the links.
Honestly, to me they sound exactly like a million other pop punk and alt rock bands. Simplistic, boring riffs. Crappy high-pitched rapping. No real melody. Not sure why you broke it up into "harder", "medium", or "softer"; none of it sounds remotely heavy. They're soft pop songs.
They sound like a slightly better Limp Bizkit, and believe me, that's a bad thing.
I don't think you listened very well if you can't hear "real" melodies. And I wasn't saying it was heavy compared to something like metal. I meant it was harder in terms of their own songs.
On a different note, here's a good indie rock song you may like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH_7_XRfTMs
Like I said, I like some metal instrumentals. Not the screaming (note the difference between yelling and screaming). Sum 41 doesn't scream. I don't consider them "punk" either. I consider their older stuff (Half Hour of Power, All Killer No Filler) pop punk which isn't like regular punk at all. Anything after that point mixes rock and metal (mostly rock). Perhaps you would like their newest album that was released in March. I definitely recommend checking it out if you used to like them.
I don't pay much attention to vocals in most metal bands. They're far less important than the guitars, bass, and in some cases, the drums. I like pure instrumentals just as much for a lot of metal.
And you're right; death grunts are far inferior to the singing of a Freddy Mercury or Bruce Dickinson. However, compared to the crappy, third-rate vocals of a Sum 41 or Zebrahead, they're at least as good. That is, it's weird that you focus so much on vocals then mention two bands with such poor, generic singing.
Also, if you're looking for great singing, then neither metal nor punk is the way to go; start listening to someone like Andrea Bocelli.
sonicpacker wrote:
I don't think you listened very well if you can't hear "real" melodies. And I wasn't saying it was heavy compared to something like metal. I meant it was harder in terms of their own songs.
On a different note, here's a good indie rock song you may like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH_7_XRfTMs
Hate to disappoint you, but I thought it was pretty dreary and average. Not bad, but definitely not my cup of tea.
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
IronSlayer wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
Like I said, I like some metal instrumentals. Not the screaming (note the difference between yelling and screaming). Sum 41 doesn't scream. I don't consider them "punk" either. I consider their older stuff (Half Hour of Power, All Killer No Filler) pop punk which isn't like regular punk at all. Anything after that point mixes rock and metal (mostly rock). Perhaps you would like their newest album that was released in March. I definitely recommend checking it out if you used to like them.
I don't pay much attention to vocals in most metal bands. They're far less important than the guitars, bass, and in some cases, the drums. I like pure instrumentals just as much for a lot of metal.
And you're right; death grunts are far inferior to the singing of a Freddy Mercury or Bruce Dickinson. However, compared to the crappy, third-rate vocals of a Sum 41 or Zebrahead, they're at least as good. That is, it's weird that you focus so much on vocals then mention two bands with such poor, generic singing.
Also, if you're looking for great singing, then neither metal nor punk is the way to go; start listening to someone like Andrea Bocelli.
I can't help but focus on the screaming in metal. It's far too "in your face" to ignore it. And I can't enjoy the instruments with all of that going on at the same time. That said, I disagree about the vocals of Sum 41 or Zebrahead being "third-rate." Generic and bad (third-rate) are not the same thing. And I don't "focus" on vocals. I just hate 99% of metal vocals (like I said, they're not able to be ignored), but I enjoy plenty of alt rock vocals (including Sum 41 and Zebrahead).
And you're right; death grunts are far inferior to the singing of a Freddy Mercury or Bruce Dickinson. However, compared to the crappy, third-rate vocals of a Sum 41 or Zebrahead, they're at least as good.
Normal singing requires a lot of both natural talent and practice, and it's certainly possible to greatly appreciate someone's singing voice and ability regardless of what they are singing (iow. even if the song itself is pure crap).
However, that's only one side of singing (and music in general). The other side is the feeling that the singing causes. People seldom listen to music purely for the technical quality of it, but because of the emotions that it produces (otherwise almost nobody would listen to music; it would be boring as hell).
Normal singing can cause very strong emotions. Death grunt can also cause emotions, although usually rather different ones. In this case it's not so much what the technical quality of the singing might be (in the traditional sense) but how it sounds and how it makes you feel. That's the main point, and arguing that death "isn't singing" or very crappy singing isn't really relevant, (Yes, I know you weren't saying that. I'm just commenting on a parallel point.)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Warp wrote:
IronSlayer wrote:
And you're right; death grunts are far inferior to the singing of a Freddy Mercury or Bruce Dickinson. However, compared to the crappy, third-rate vocals of a Sum 41 or Zebrahead, they're at least as good.
That's the main point, and arguing that death "isn't singing" or very crappy singing isn't really relevant, (Yes, I know you weren't saying that. I'm just commenting on a parallel point.)
I agree with that as well. Don't get me wrong, I know it takes skill. I just don't get enjoyment out of listening to it.
Going by Warp's words, which I by the way agree with, generic alt-rock/nu-metal screams sound whiny and angsty and immature in nature, which they probably are. No matter what Fred Durst "sings", he does it as if though some other nu-metal vocalist took all of his toys and called him a meanie. Urrgh, I'm so angry, I'm almost going to consider doing something about it! Maybe I'll go kick a kitten!
It's one of the reasons I stopped listening to that kind of music. When you're a teenager you're often feeling powerless in the face of a difficulty, or a loss, or danger, but eventually you're bound to grow up and learn how to deal, or at least cope with it if there's nothing constructive to do. When that time comes all of that pointless, poorly maintained angst starts looking exactly as shallow as it no doubt is, because most of those guys' actual problems in life boil down to "how to make money come in faster than we're spending it", not "how do I keep this girl" or "how to appear cool enough so that I stop being bullied".
I still do listen to singular tracks occasionally, like Linkin Park's Papercut. It's catchy. :)
On that note, I would like to give a honorable mention to Clawfinger—the band that reached great height of comprehensiveness and detail in describing every possible social problem or tricky situation.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I would like to say to IronSlayer and everyone else, that Freddie Mercury's first name is spelled Freddie, not Freddy. He was very specific about this detail and I hope you honor him enough to get his name right.
Also, my favorite band that can be classified as just a metal band is Metallica, I think. I prefer Judas Priest and Black Sabbath over them though, but they're more of hard rock bands. Oh how I hate these genre specifications...
However, that's only one side of singing (and music in general). The other side is the feeling that the singing causes. People seldom listen to music purely for the technical quality of it, but because of the emotions that it produces (otherwise almost nobody would listen to music; it would be boring as hell).
Like I already said, death grunts are perfectly fine, and can improve a song, but sonicpacker is correct in the sense that they're inferior to high-caliber singing.
But again, I prefer death grunts over the angsty, lousy singing of Sum 41 or Zebrahead.
moozooh wrote:
Going by Warp's words, which I by the way agree with, generic alt-rock/nu-metal screams are whiny and angsty and immature in nature, which they probably are. No matter what Fred Durst "sings", he does it as if though some other nu-metal vocalist took all of his toys and called him a meanie. Urrgh, I'm so angry, I'm almost going to consider doing something about it! Maybe I'll go kick a kitten!
Indeed. It's unbelievably whiny and pathetic.
Moozooh wrote:
I still do listen to singular tracks occasionally, like Linkin Park's Papercut. It's catchy. :)
I've always hated crappy bands like Limp Bizkit, and disliked Linkin Park by the time I hit 15, but I can still tolerate and even enjoy Korn and Adema to this day, among the (generally awful) numetal subgenre.
Brushy wrote:
Also, my favorite band that can be classified as just a metal band is Metallica, I think. I prefer Judas Priest and Black Sabbath over them though, but they're more of hard rock bands. Oh how I hate these genre specifications...
You're the first person I've ever heard or read referring to Sabbath or Priest as "hard rock". Black Sabbath is widely considered the first metal band ever, with riffs and chords fundamentally different than any hard rock group.
You're the first person I've ever heard or read referring to Sabbath or Priest as "hard rock". Black Sabbath is widely considered the first metal band ever, with riffs and chords fundamentally different than any hard rock group.
I know that's where heavy metal began and that Black Sabbath basically established it, but there's more to both of those bands than just the metal side. Especially in the early days of Judas Priest.
Maybe I just think like this because I hate the heavy metal scene. It's like you can't listen to anything else if you listen to heavy metal and all that. I'm not good at explaining this thing, but I just dislike the scene and I guess I don't want to consider some of my favorite bands to be part of if, although I know they made it happen.
