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Posted: 9/17/2012 7:46 PM
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Inzult
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Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada
NES TAS of 2021
I made it a youtube. Warning: I am not an encoder. Link to video
Posted: 9/21/2012 1:10 PM
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scaryice
Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74
solairflaire wrote:
A couple places you can use the Fairy Glitch as well.
I was thinking you could do it where you get the downstab off the church, but it seems you're just a hair too low. Too bad none of the villagers turn to bats there. There's the square right before the Parapa heart container, but all it does is stay on that screen. I noticed if you fairy glitch off on the furthest left spot, you'll exit but end up below the square. There's also the bridge below Bagu's forest. You're just short, but it looks like you could be able to hit a bubble for some extra height. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like fairy takes effect while you're going through the hit stun.
Posted: 9/21/2012 3:13 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
So...this basically achieves a similar effect as the L+R glitch, but without using L+R?
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 9/23/2012 12:22 AM
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Inzult
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Joined: 9/27/2004
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NES TAS of 2021
Basically all l+r really does is make you go fast. Going fast lets you do some things (like skip thunderbird) but besides that it's not too important by itself.
Posted: 9/23/2012 10:51 AM
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scaryice
Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74
Inzult wrote:
solairflaire wrote:
I do have a couple questions. How do you do the Healer Glitch? I haven't been able to get it to work at all.
I don't really know.
Is it just a matter of talking on the right frame? Does Link's position matter? I've gotten her to turn around, but all that happens is she starts walking further to the left. She doesn't go in an invisible door.
Posted: 9/23/2012 8:49 PM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 335
i do believe it's simply a matter of talking on the right frame. with many retries i was able to do it in real time when trying to see if that route was feasible unassisted. My conclusion was that it is, but would require a lot of practice. Also she doesn't go into an invisible door. You go into the visible door when she's NOT in front of it and it's still open. If you go when she's in front of the door, she intercepts your entrance attempt and takes you to the room. but if she's somehow not there, you get sent to map 0 instead.
Posted: 9/24/2012 11:28 AM
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solairflaire
Joined: 9/12/2012
Posts: 17
The only result I've gotten in the past 2 weeks of trying the Healer Glitch that resembles success is the girl walking the other way without the door opening. This is with no slowdown and with slowdown. I'm beginning to wonder if there is another factor to make it work other than just frame timing.
Posted: 9/24/2012 10:19 PM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 335
i think you have to speak with her multiple times to get her to lose count of her steps, and the last time must be on the right frame
Posted: 9/24/2012 11:34 PM
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Inzult
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Joined: 9/27/2004
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Location: Canada
NES TAS of 2021
So, just messing around I managed to get to dark link without picking up the handy glove or downstab, just fairy/hammer. But when I went to make an fm2, I couldn't replicate it. There's something with the second to last usage of fairy I can't figure out. It worked before but now after fairy it spawns me in the next room inside the exit so I go straight back to the entrance. The good news(?) is that it looks like the time compared to the published glitched run would be very close. I haven't done an exact time comparison, but it's not obvious to me which route is faster. It might well be slower. The bad news is I'm not sure.
Posted: 9/25/2012 4:51 AM
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solairflaire
Joined: 9/12/2012
Posts: 17
i think you have to speak with her multiple times to get her to lose count of her steps, and the last time must be on the right frame
I do talk to her two or more times. I just can't get it to work.
There's something with the second to last usage of fairy I can't figure out. It worked before but now after fairy it spawns me in the next room inside the exit so I go straight back to the entrance.
Are you trying to do the fairy glitch with scroll lock active? I imagine you'd need to do it further left than where it would normally be done because the game thinks Link is further left, assuming I read the description of what scroll lock does correctly.
Posted: 9/25/2012 6:03 AM
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Inzult
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NES TAS of 2021
solairflaire wrote:
Are you trying to do the fairy glitch with scroll lock active? I imagine you'd need to do it further left than where it would normally be done because the game thinks Link is further left, assuming I read the description of what scroll lock does correctly.
Yes I am. In testing I was able to get far enough left, right up to the edge of the screen. It seems like I still can, but something is happening to cause me to spawn in a different place in the same room as I did in the test. And I don't know what. But I figured out a different route anyway. It's got one fewer screen transition. I think it would be a bit slower than what I originally had in mind? Still workable though. I'm going to put together a rough draft over the next couple of days and post it. I guess I'm working on this game again :I
Posted: 9/25/2012 10:44 AM
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scaryice
Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74
Holy shit, I just made some big progress tonight. Managed to recreate the healer glitch many times. First like in the TAS in Rauru. Then in every other town on the first continent. Then I did it on console. It doesn't have to be a healer either. Magic lady works, and so do the people who block the spells - nothing glitched when you go in that way though (also, they won't turn in your direction if you don't have the item, so it doesn't seem like you could get in there without the stuff you need). I started to come up with this whole theory about walking to the left screen and then coming back to the right, because that's what happened when I did it the first time. But that's unnecessary, even though she does look like she walks a little further out when you do that. I think rather, it might be the case that you have to get it the first time you talk to her.
Posted: 9/26/2012 8:40 PM
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Inzult
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NES TAS of 2021
note to self (and others): If you are traveling at top speed in a direction, and press that direction the frame before you leave a room (thereby giving yourself top speed in the other direction) you seem to take the opposite exit. This means, for example, any time you enter from the left and want to exit to the right, you can do so by exiting to the left. At this time I'm not sure if the screen lock thing needs to be in effect. This re-complicates planning. I'm going to finish the test without using this, as to compare with the current published run. I suspect this would be most useful in the great palace anyway, so it's still a useful comparison.
Posted: 9/27/2012 2:39 AM
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Inzult
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NES TAS of 2021
(almost) full run, incorporating fairy glitch. So this is an old route idea I had in like 2007, but never could work out how to get all the way to dark link. The recent discussion gave me new ideas, and what do you know. One worked. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/1468045707452406 Fairy is gotten, Glove, Downstab and Jump are skipped. This winds up being about 450, maybe a little more, frames too slow to be a good route :( I'm going to test whether getting Raft in stead of warping from Death Mountain makes more sense for this route. Raft vs Death Mountain has always been close in old tests. Raft seems like the slower option but now going over Bagu's way is out of the way, so it could be better. Raft would be gotten just before getting Fairy. I hope I posted a test run of palace 3 in this thread somewhere, to save myself some work! If anyone wants to tinker with the route, or mess around with the input file, feel free. Maybe warping around with the healer glitch would be faster than walking to the Water of Life? Man I dunno! Anyway there's now a bunch of suspected improvements to the published glitched run (used only in one room, I think, in this test movie), so one way or another, the time is coming down.
Posted: 9/27/2012 11:54 AM
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solairflaire
Joined: 9/12/2012
Posts: 17
I watched the fm2. It's an interesting route. One thing confused me though. Couldn't you take the same route as the published movie in the Great Palace, just adding the fairy glitch spots? If not, could you wall climb up where you die to the floating head and cast fairy above the screen instead of using U+D as a fairy? I'm guessing there's no way to get into the medicine cave without going in the normal way.
Posted: 9/27/2012 7:49 PM
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Inzult
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Joined: 9/27/2004
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Location: Canada
NES TAS of 2021
solairflaire wrote:
One thing confused me though. Couldn't you take the same route as the published movie in the Great Palace, just adding the fairy glitch spots?
You'd need the glove to break the blocks covering the hole, that's why you have to do it from above.
solairflaire wrote:
If not, could you wall climb up where you die to the floating head and cast fairy above the screen instead of using U+D as a fairy?
Yes. That's worth testing, since it doesn't matter which room we go further to the right in. That probably includes waiting to get hit in the room before, depending on how the heads spawn. I didn't spend a lot of time on these rooms. Though I'm not sure if that can save enough time. (Hence being worth a test!)
solairflaire wrote:
I'm guessing there's no way to get into the medicine cave without going in the normal way.
As far as I know, you need the hammer to get to the medicine cave. I've not found a way to wrong warp inside.
Posted: 9/28/2012 1:05 AM
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solairflaire
Joined: 9/12/2012
Posts: 17
Right, the glove. I should've known that.
note to self (and others): If you are traveling at top speed in a direction, and press that direction the frame before you leave a room (thereby giving yourself top speed in the other direction) you seem to take the opposite exit.
Could you do this in that room and then just re-enter from the other side? It would save a death.
Posted: 9/28/2012 1:35 AM
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hegyak
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solairflaire wrote:
note to self (and others): If you are traveling at top speed in a direction, and press that direction the frame before you leave a room (thereby giving yourself top speed in the other direction) you seem to take the opposite exit.
Could you do this in that room and then just re-enter from the other side? It would save a death.
I think the deaths were to replenish the mana.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Posted: 9/28/2012 1:49 AM
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Inzult
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Joined: 9/27/2004
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Location: Canada
NES TAS of 2021
solairflaire wrote:
Could you do this in that room and then just re-enter from the other side? It would save a death.
In theory, that should work. And if it does, then that's enough time for sure and this is probably the route. I just tried real quick, though, and it didn't work. And I'm not sure why. I first noticed the reversed exit thing using the left exit, in the overworld spiked square at palace 4 maze. But there are occasionally anomalies on the right at high speeds as well. I haven't done much testing with it yet though, so I'm not going to say for sure what works and what doesn't. I'm not sure how it works to be honest. Maybe there's a x-positioning element to it as well. I'll have to check into it next week.
Posted: 11/15/2012 4:51 AM
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Inzult
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NES TAS of 2021
In case I lose them/public notes to self: $0070 Link's X sidescrolling speed $03D6 Link's X sidescrolling subpixel Subpixel is reset upon entering a new screen; does not seem relevant for TAS purposes (possibly just for positioning on elevator or picking up items) Max walking speed: 24 Recoil from stabbing wall speed: 12 Recoil from stabbing enemy speed: 5 Recoil from taking damage speed: 13 After stabbing recoil, speed is set to 0 unless you are in the air. After Damage recoil, nothing special happens. You can move while recoiling from an attack, but not a hit. Normal acceleration: 1 per frame (hence, from a standstill, stabbing something behind you and jumping immediately will accelerate you faster, recoiling from damage doesn't work since you are set to 13 speed through the whole animation. it is always preferable to jump after stabbing something.) Turning increases the speed in the new direction by 2 in stead of 1. Turning back 1 frame later decreases speed by 1. This pattern repeats unless the speed is 1 or -1. todo: find Y values $0516 Overworld Encounter Timer $0026 Overworld Encounter Step Counter The encounter timer always counts down, even in a side scrolling area. When it reaches 0, enemies spawn. If you are on a path, it stays at 0 until you step on terrain that can spawn enemies. Resets to 8 ticks upon exiting a side scrolling area. If you are standing on different overworld terrain when it reaches 0, it resets to different times. Grass, Swamp 32 Ticks Desert, Forest 24 Ticks Graveyard 9 Ticks Lava 3 Ticks First tick seems to be variable, every other tick takes 21 frames. (3 Ticks is approx. 1 second) todo: figure out first tick Step counter counts up from 1 to 255, increasing by 16 each step. When it rolls over 255 it resets to 1 and monsters spawn. This means every 16 steps there will be an encounter spawn. Terrain does not affect steps-- the path also counts as a step, so if the 16th step is on a path, no encounter will spawn for that cycle. Resets to 1 upon exiting a side scrolling area.
Posted: 11/24/2012 9:53 PM
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Inzult
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Joined: 9/27/2004
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Location: Canada
NES TAS of 2021
So you can swap the left and right exits with l+r movement, I guess. Maybe the scrolling glitch needs to be active. But I'm not exactly sure why this works here, and why it doesn't work in some other situations: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/2773783165871714 http://youtu.be/60eGBJNkeyo What the input is is on the last frame before exiting the sidescolling section, I press left to wrap the speed and reverse directions. So I'm asking for some help with this one. I've been looking at what happens based on speed, x position and subpixel position, and everything winds up slightly different but why this actually happens isn't obvious to me. Maybe I am missing a key memory address to watch. Maybe my brain is just too dumb. Any suggestions or insight would be appreciated. I think in an older published glitched run, maybe the first one I did (or maybe it was Gigafrsost's run) the same input was used to avoid taking a left exit on the right side of the screen inside the great palace. So if I'm reading this correctly, the input isn't important, there's something else going on that decides where you go. I can see there's potential here but I need help with it for sure.
Posted: 2/21/2013 3:28 AM
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RAT926
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 47
http://youtu.be/4S1d4AXc9yA Can't these be used for TAS?It is not necessary to get jump magic.
Posted: 2/21/2013 11:59 AM
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Inzult
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Joined: 9/27/2004
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NES TAS of 2021
My first thought was you'd still need the Jump spell to get downstab. But I'm pretty sure you can get downstab with fairy. My second thought was that luring the aches over to the right would take too long which would make skipping the trophy cave not worth it, but then I remembered there's no other reason to visit Ruto besides getting Jump, so it's probably worth it after all. So yes. I imagine that would save quite a bit of time. Probably something like 1 minute from the any% run. Do you happen to know off hand if the ache damage boost is also possible on the ntsc version? I mean, the engine is basically the same so I imagine yes, but I'm just curious.
Posted: 2/22/2013 12:26 AM
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Inzult
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NES TAS of 2021
Okay, here's something I've known about for a while, jumping higher than intended. I have heard you can use this in the jump cave to avoid casting jump. And I did mess around with it in the past, but I'm revisiting it because RAT926's got me thinking about skipping jump again. So here's the glitch jump in Darunia, because it's the only place I know I can do it consistently. Link to video fm2: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/4752508126292832 Problem is, I don't really know how it works. your y position when you hit the wall doesn't seem to be anything special. Just, for some reason, when you jump at a certain time, you go a few pixels further to the left than usual and end up very slightly embedded in the wall. Like collision forgets to happen for one frame, and you wind up far enough that the game ejects you up or something. I have had no luck in the past getting this to work anywhere else in the game, let alone in the jump cave. But as I said, I've heard a rumor that this works there as well. It's happened to me in other places while playing casually so I've always thought there was something to it... Anyone have any ideas as to how this works? 0070 - Link's speed 004D - Link's X pos 03D6 - X Subpixel 0029 - Link's Y pos
Posted: 2/22/2013 1:10 AM
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RAT926
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 47
http://youtu.be/dlrrLJ0hAYE I had discovered the same thing last month. It reaches the place that doesn't reach originally.
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