Post subject: Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
This is the best modern RPG I can think of for speedrunning purposes, and people who have played will know what I'm talking about. I never timed myself, but if I remember correctly from a long dead thread on Gamefaqs, from a clear save it should take a little over 2 hours? I'm just guessing really, so don't take my word for it, but that's a general estimate. Opinions vary as to how long a completely new game would take but it would have to work to get until SDA's limit I think. I would like to see what people think about this. [sidenote] This game is IMHO the best game on the PS2, but sadly it seems nobody has played it. If I had a penny every time someone told me they've played BoF games, but not 5, I'd have... a lot of pennies. It's the only RPG in forever where it feels like there were any rational design decisions made or playtesting put into it for gameplay balance. In addition, it has probably Iwata's best soundtrack ever, and at least his best since Tactics Ogre/FF Tactics. [/sidenote]
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Eh.... I might be going soft from the relative lack of challenge in other RPGs, but this thing was so painful to play through I quit after dying for the third or fourth time. It wasn't worth it.
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
It's not actually a difficult game, it's just extremely poorly documented and there's a whole bunch of misconceptions floating around about it gamewise, which matters even more here because the battle system is so different. Using no guides, I beat it without any deaths the first time, with a whole lot of almost-dying drama. My brother beat it relatively easily the first time without any deaths. Basically, the "you must die and restart" thing is a myth. I can see how dying and restarting would hamper your enjoyment of a game though obviously. I guess I lucked out and got maximum enjoyment!
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
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Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I think this game would make an excellent speedrun. When I first played it I hated it because I was expecting a normal epic RPG, but pretty soon once I understood the basic concept (I'd call it a survival-strategy-RPG) I realized how awesome it was, and finally beat it after many near-death experiences (ok, and one restart near the beginning after which it got easier). I found this game to be incredibly stressful (in a good way) to play through, with the challenge requiring good tactics, the high unpredictability factor, the temptation to use super-dragon powers in exchange for permanently losing a large chunk of your character's humanity... A speedrun would be impressive and very entertaining to watch.
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Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Yes, this game was pretty badass, I loved the action. Never tried speedrunning more than attempting 1/4... and only got 1/8. Dammit. But still it was pretty sweet, definitely a unique experience.
Joined: 2/2/2005
Posts: 198
I tried speedrunning this game for kicks once, and I beat it in a bit over an hour. Mind you, this was done from a clear save and all 3 characters leveled up to 30 via party exp from when each of them joins, so I don't know how much faster or slower it'd be to beat it as an actual speedrun with all characters starting from level 1 and no extra equipment or skills from previous playthroughs.
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
AnotherGamer wrote:
I tried speedrunning this game for kicks once, and I beat it in a bit over an hour. Mind you, this was done from a clear save and all 3 characters leveled up to 30 via party exp from when each of them joins, so I don't know how much faster or slower it'd be to beat it as an actual speedrun with all characters starting from level 1 and no extra equipment or skills from previous playthroughs.
I think it's safe to say it'd be slower. ;) But seriously, for anyone who's still reading this, would you rather see a new game or a clear game? While planning a new game run would be more interesting, I think because of the length and all, it wouldn't be as interesting to watch. So given a clear game, should party XP be allowed? I actually don't know where I stand on this.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
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Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Enhasa wrote:
But seriously, for anyone who's still reading this, would you rather see a new game or a clear game? While planning a new game run would be more interesting, I think because of the length and all, it wouldn't be as interesting to watch. So given a clear game, should party XP be allowed? I actually don't know where I stand on this.
I'd much rather see it from a new game, because then it would be a far greater show of skill and not just a walkthrough of the dungeon routes.
Joined: 2/2/2005
Posts: 198
I dunno. Both would be nice to see... I'm not sure if a new game run would be THAT much slower, given the fact that you can skip all nonboss battles...but the question remains, where would you get the levels and stats necessary to beat some of the bosses without relying on the dragon powers, since you're forced to do that in some of the boss battles if you ever want to make it to the end without maxing out the counter way before its time.
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
Just in case anybody cares, I tried a couple of test runs on this several weeks ago. I can get to Elyon from a new game in some ridiculously low time, like between 1.5 and 2 hours, but then I run out of D-Counter. Unless I or somebody else can figure something out, I'm afraid there's no elegant way to do this without adding a couple of extra hours. I'm thinking of trying another route, which focuses on getting Power Boosts and 7th Senses, but even then I'm not sure that would be enough. At any rate, I currently have no PS2 access, so I'll have to wait until the fall to continue with this. But I am still interested.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
I posted this on the relevant SDA thread here, so I figured I might as well put it here as well. "From where in the story on did you rely on Ryus Dragon stuff? Immediately after you got Odjn?" No, I knew I would have no chance if I did that. Let me try and remember what I did. The main problem with running this game is that even disregarding D-Dive, the optimal strategy for fights is usually much slower than the fastest way. While this is great game design on Capcom's part, it doesn't do us any favors. I wasn't too careful and didn't take any notes because this was a (failed) proof of concept run. I didn't fight any non-required fights. Besides XP, this also hampered me severely in regards to Fol and ID equipment. I also didn't go out of my way to pick up any items or chests. I spend most of my money at the beginning on Fresh Meat, and healing items later. I use up any Party XP I get on Ryu. I had to estimate how to best use Dragon powers to minimize D-Counter usage for each fight, and it was really surprising how many fights, I would knock the enemy down to a tiny sliver, and then be able to Cooldown and attack with Ryu and others for the win, or sometimes barely not be able to do this and reset. In the first dungeon, Bosch's Twin Wake combo is good. Ryu's X Blade would be good too, except you don't come with Side Slash. I get Kick in the first dungeon; it's quite useful. I run around everywhere with D-Dash while it doesn't increase the D-Counter. (This alone is a good reason why a BoF5 run would look so nice.) I end the first Bosch fight with low D-Counter. Against the Lieutenants, I D-Dive, which in retrospect I would see if I could live without. At the end of CorpLab, I buy the Antenna, the rod with Lightning built in. Against the Gunners and Battlers, I D-Dive, because that fight is nigh impossible at low levels and would take forever besides. More importantly, killing those 8 guys first turn gives a ton of Party XP. Asimov I also D-Dive, but I would see if I could avoid doing that. The main issue is that pushing him into Fragballs is the best way to fight him, but it's in an optional chest. I wonder if Frost (Goo Sapphire drop) would be better, I'd have to see. The level 1 traps are G-Flare and Joltball, how unlucky. Against Zeno and Mage Captains, I D-Dive of course. This fight is hard enough on a normal playthrough. Afterwards I ID Zeno's Violet Blade and use that. Because of newfound levels and decent weapons, Tantra actually goes down without much difficulty. I D-Dive Geegagis because he is so hard to kill and it takes forever, although if I had Fragball, I think I would have used that instead. I then kill Geegagis-powered Tantra without D-Dive. I remember to buy 1 Multimeds for Nina for the upcoming fight in Trinity. The Trinity battle takes far too long, but I still did it without D-Dive because at this point, I was glad it was still possible. Then the difficulty spikes. I D-Dive against Bosch at Lifeline, then again for Deamoned, and the regents. I picked Hortensia and then Vexacion, because I mistakenly thought that like Zeno, the fight ended when the leader dies. I think I should have went Cupid and Jezuit instead. Cupid has 340 less (HP+ABD) than Hortensia, which mattered because I had to use an extra Vortex I think. Against Jezuit, G-Flare doesn't do enough to get past his ABD and knock him out of his untargetable stage, so you'd have to wait it out or likely die instead before then. Which is why maybe Fragball is a good idea. Then against Elyon I was toast, with Bosch and D. Bosch (and Chetyre, but he doesn't count) waiting in the wings. With more getting stuff, instead of just racing through, this run is certainly possible. I just don't know how much time that would add.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/