Post by feos

Posted: 5/24/2005 2:35 AM
(Edited: 5/24/2005 5:08 AM)

Quote

jecy

Former player

Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 79

BATMAN - the last update. * aim for lag-reduced Thanks to Bag of Magic and FODA Sometimes I felt I was alone doing this run. But when I saw your reply, then I was wrong. Thanks to our trinity - Bisqwit He had wrote "If it improves, it is very much worth it". I thought he tried to encourage me, so I went for it. Or maybe I was coaxed ? Just kidding. :) Thanks to mikwuyma, Truncated, TheAxeMan, Fihlvein, feitclub, braceyj and others I forgot to mention. I have tried my best as possible as I can but no significant improvement. So take a look at when you have free time. Hope you like the style. ---- Edit:

Bisqwit wrote:

I noticed you used less weapons than the last time. Also, you manipulated enemies to disappear as soon as possible. I couldn't find flaws.

Sometimes there is a flaw when there are many particles in the same operation screen. :D

Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.

Posted: 5/24/2005 4:22 AM

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nesrocks

He/Him

Player (241)

Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil

Jecy, that is outstanding gameplay! There were many parts of the video that impressed me, like boss fights and some places with quick weapon switching and many enemies killed at once. The jumping is also very well timed. I have one question, on the level where you have to fall and avoid the eletric field, you land so that you stop a little to have time to go down without getting hurt, right? couldnt you instead of stopping, start falling a few frames later so you dont have to stop the fall? or that makes no difference? (this is level 4-3)

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 5/24/2005 5:06 AM

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jecy

Former player

Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 79

FODA wrote:

Jecy, that is outstanding gameplay! There were many parts of the video that impressed me, like boss fights and some places with quick weapon switching and many enemies killed at once. The jumping is also very well timed.

Thanks. This run I still dont like kill the un-necessary enemies style. So I kill the tough guy 'giant jumpping dude' for you, hope you can accept this.

FODA wrote:

I have one question, on the level where you have to fall and avoid the eletric field, you land so that you stop a little to have time to go down without getting hurt, right? couldnt you instead of stopping, start falling a few frames later so you dont have to stop the fall? or that makes no difference? (this is level 4-3)

*Nod* I dont like our hero get hurt, I hope you like it. Under the restriction of take no damage, you mgiht find a better way. But to me, I dont know. I had done any possible way I can, I'm afraid that's best way I had shown in that run. PS: compare with your battletoads, it's just piece of cake. ---- Glad to see you again!

Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.

Posted: 5/24/2005 6:02 AM

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nesrocks

He/Him

Player (241)

Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil

Yes, i mean dont get hurt, but fall later, so you dont have to stop in middle of falling (i hope i made myself clear) so that you have max falling speed when going through the eletric field. And its not piece of cake, hehe its hard, i tried batman, and you made it much better.

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 5/24/2005 6:21 AM

Quote

jecy

Former player

Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 79

FODA Oh my goodness. About the lv4-3 you could be right ! I'll try it another way see if it's better. Your replay is so fast that I can't edit my post ahead. And your 2p play is hard to me. ^_^

Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.

Posted: 5/24/2005 7:07 AM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

jecy wrote:

Thanks to our trinity - Bisqwit

Trinity ^_^;; Well, good thing your new movie is almost ready :)

Posted: 5/25/2005 5:44 AM

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jecy

Former player

Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 79

FODA, you're right but you also right. After testing last night, I can got ~4fr. But unfortunately, I still got trouble around 27470 fr. (the enemy - FireSpitting robot). 4fr. can't change his attacking way. :( I tried the randomness to see if I could change his mind before. But it seemed that I need a little wide frames to take over. So the result is no difference. You're always right, FODA. Since I get some frames, I should take use of it doing some style. So I remake it ! The link is the same. Hope this one will be better. ^_^

Bisqwit wrote:

Well, good thing your new movie is almost ready :)

Thanks, I dont dare to say this is a new movie. No significant improvement.

Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.

Posted: 5/25/2005 12:33 PM

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nesrocks

He/Him

Player (241)

Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil

Jecy, its a new movie yes, its 8 seconds faster, i noticed a lot of changes. 8 seconds on such a quick movie is a remarkable difference. Good job PS.: too bad it didnt cut any time, but if it helped in style, i'm happy :)

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 3/27/2006 4:25 PM

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Rick

Former player

Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine

Rise from the dead! Anyway, I don't know if it's possible, but is there a way to manipulate those annoying leaping enemies in levels 3 and 4 so that they jump offscreen or jump over you, then jump in place until the screen scrolls off?

http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.

Posted: 3/31/2006 5:27 AM

Quote

jecy

Former player

Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 79

Rick wrote:

Rise from the dead! Anyway, I don't know if it's possible, but is there a way to manipulate those annoying leaping enemies in levels 3 and 4 so that they jump offscreen or jump over you, then jump in place until the screen scrolls off?

And stay in calm. :D Yes, there is, such as delay or advance some frames or do some maneuver. ---- BTW, I have do some change at the last fight (Joker [~5fr.]) long time ago (link always the same).

Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.

Posted: 3/31/2006 10:45 PM

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Rick

Former player

Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine

Right. I almost think that the game decides what to do on a certain frame, and I'm wondering if it's influenced on where you are, and what action you perform. I haven't quite figured it out on full speed yet.

http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.

Posted: 4/1/2006 1:46 AM

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jecy

Former player

Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 79

Very right, I think not only this game but most of games are programmed to decide to do what with many conditional branch, like your saying. So we need to test everything to figure out the game results(routines). More important, we should usually do combo tests(tricks) to see if there exists game errors (or exam the rom codes to check bugs). Take a simple example for this game, see this mpeg video. If you do nothing then the leaping enemy will always stay in jumping over and over infinitely. When you start to forward, the emeny will start to have different move because of your position 'event'. Try to see other movies on this site that will help you to feel it. Hope that can help you and welcome for any question. :) ____ btw, Someone tell me that I can direct through the Jorker without fighting Firebug. Now I am messing up.

Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.

Posted: 4/1/2006 1:48 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden

>btw, Someone tell me that I can direct through the Jorker without fighting Firebug. Now I am messing up. If I understand this correctly... they mean that if you have beaten Firebug before, and then died, you will not have to fight him again when you reach Joker. I doubt that this could be used in a speedrun.

Posted: 4/1/2006 4:33 PM

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jecy

Former player

Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 79

Thanks for the comment, Truncated. I think your understanding is correct. ___ Life become boring. Searching fun...

Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.

Posted: 4/1/2006 5:15 PM

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Unknown_User

Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716

Truncated wrote:

>btw, Someone tell me that I can direct through the Jorker without fighting Firebug. Now I am messing up. If I understand this correctly... they mean that if you have beaten Firebug before, and then died, you will not have to fight him again when you reach Joker. I doubt that this could be used in a speedrun.

I used to use a trick 15 years ago (it's a LONG time since I played this game!!!!) : when arriving just before the firebug entrance, I jumped and enter the room at the highest point of my jump and I was directly fighting Joker...I really don't remember if I fighted firebug before but I'll give it a try... P.S. : sorry for my (bad) english:-(!!!

Posted: 4/1/2006 6:26 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden

>I jumped and enter the room at the highest point of my jump and I was directly fighting Joker. Make a movie demonstrating it please. What is your first language (mother tongue)?

Posted: 4/1/2006 6:35 PM

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Unknown_User

Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716

Truncated wrote:

>I jumped and enter the room at the highest point of my jump and I was directly fighting Joker. Make a movie demonstrating it please. What is your first language (mother tongue)?

No, I'm french!!! And I realize how easier it is to read english than to write it :-(!!! For Batman, I'll try...I just have to understand how a movie can be made ;-)!!! But that doesn't sound really hard!!!

Posted: 4/1/2006 6:39 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden

>No, I'm french!!! No? Well, there are many french speakers here with good English. They can probably help you if you get stuck. Let us know if you need help with recording a movie.

Posted: 4/1/2006 8:34 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (278)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Maybe lyraluna thought that "mother tongue" was a language.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/28/2013 4:17 PM

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Orange_Claw_Hammer

Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 99

couldn't find a more recent thread of this so in the course of various people's efforts in optimizing this game for RTAs there have been quite a few improvements found to aglar's TAS from 2008. several involve taking damage but some do not. i have no interest in TASing myself but i'd like to see an updated TAS of this game that includes all the new things that've been found.

Posted: 4/28/2013 4:25 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1237)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11279
Location: RU

Since they don't seem to be listed anywhere I can easily find, can you mention them all?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 4/28/2013 5:25 PM

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Orange_Claw_Hammer

Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 99

1-2: 1. to reduce lag (the emulator aglar used undoubtedly has less lag than console, probably less lag than bizhawk), you can dirk the left-moving spikecar just before the vertical climb with the 4 spikecars on platforms and then landing punch it to destroy it. 2. new strat on the ninja at the end of the stage. after bataranging him prior to landing, it seems to be 1 frame faster to jump over him, turn around, and batarang him from in front of him, which scrolls him offscreen. 2-1: the set of 2 walljumps that skip up a "floor", underneath the two torchers. it is faster (for RTA play at least) to walljump into the top-left block and then descend back down to the bottom-right block and walljump again, this time getting on top of the top-right block. 2-2: 1. same principle as the 2-1 improvement, a couple seconds after the initial two running guys. walljump into the right wall and descend back down to the left wall, and then walljump again. 2. a few seconds afterward, do an instant turnaround off of the left wall when climbing up to the platform with the floor-bomb, instead of walljumping off of it. (i haven't actually done a frame comparison of this one yet, but it definitely looks faster) 3. after the long vertical climb, at the very edge of the top ledge jump into the ceiling with the electrical current - then jump again after landing on the electrical current on the floor. 2-3: 1. might be a tiny bit faster to shoot the ceiling enemy that releases the follow-bombs with the rocket gun - this delays when it normally releases a bomb by a slight amount compared to normal. alternatively, you can turn around in midair while jumping over the floor-bomb and destroy the falling follow-bomb with a boomerang. not sure if either would be faster for TAS. 2. during the fall through the smaller shaft lined with cogs, do a neutral jump and hit the left shaft of cogs from the right as high up as possible. you'll be able to jump to the platform on the left without falling down to do a walljump due to invincibility. 4-1: 1. might be a bit faster due to lag to kill the follow-bomb that gets dropped around the beginning of the stage, if possible. 2. it is possible to jump from the first raised platform directly to the second raised platform, though killing the torcher on the 2nd raised platform (without significant lag either) might be problematic. 4-2: it's faster to jump into the cogs at the end instead of walljumping over them. for the 2nd cog, jump off the cog after taking damage and dirk the spikecars upon landing. 4-3: known damage-taking improvement where you don't dodge the electric bolts in the shafts at the beginning of the level. i have input files of most of these strats, though they're all for the emulator aglar used for this '08 TAS, fceu something. if anyone wants to see them though i'll upload them.

Posted: 6/15/2013 2:00 PM

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Orange_Claw_Hammer

Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 99

yes

Posted: 6/15/2013 2:14 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1237)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11279
Location: RU

Then I want to express my amazement by what you did to Gimmick! at AGDQ and by Bucky O'Hare work on your channel! I couldn't imagine TAS strats for such complicated games can be used in real time at all. Back on topic though, why don't you try to TAS Batman yourself with all that knowledge of this game?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.