This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4051: Arnold0's SNES SimCity in 06:52.09

Uh..... Someone who's interested on the ongoing discussion regarding Input time vs avi time comment about this? >.>

I'm honestly not sure. I'd say "yeah, I think" but since it's not in the options I went for "meh". I don,t know much about Sim City T.A.S., but if that's the fastest we can go, I'd say that it should go on the website but in the vault.

For what it's worth, the input frame part of the run was interesting. If you've ever played this game, you'd know doing it that fast and precise, without gaps between your buildings, is without a doubt, impossible for a human. Honestly though, 500,000 would seem like a better goal, since that is a metro, though I'm guessing you wanted the "You're a great mayor" screen. Either way would really be described as "winning", sans credits. Big difference: ∙ 500K: 28 mins ∙ 600K: 47 mins Though, I do like how you do the money glitch compared to RTA runs :) ... I'll vote yes, what the hay :P

For what it's worth, the input frame part of the run was interesting. If you've ever played this game, you'd know doing it that fast and precise, without gaps between your buildings, is without a doubt, impossible for a human. Honestly though, 500,000 would seem like a better goal, since that is a metro, though I'm guessing you wanted the "You're a great mayor" screen. Either way would really be described as "winning", sans credits. Big difference: ∙ 500K: 28 mins ∙ 600K: 47 mins Though, I do like how you do the money glitch compared to RTA runs :) ... I'll vote yes, what the hay :P

RTA takes 33:13 to get 500k so I'll give it a yes. Also 600k looks like the true ending. Yes as in for the Vault.

Voted no. Sorry but I did not find this remotely entertaining.

Someone who's interested on the ongoing discussion regarding Input time vs avi time comment about this?

Haven't read the discussion, but in this case optimizing for input time would have an ugly consequence: the most optimized run would only build as much of the city as they can get away with, then stop input. Consequently it'd take hours to reach 600k. So in the interest of keeping the run watchable, the only reasonable goal is the time it takes to reach 600k. And I do wonder: isn't there anything that can be done to speed up that goal by extending input? Clicking away text boxes? Reducing lag? Maybe manipulate luck to get the city to grow faster? Kudos for finding your own layout and improving the money glitch, but I don't think this is as optimized as it could be.

I think the site should have 2 category, faster last input and faster real time. Yes closing text boxes could probably win in real time but it defeat the goal I take that was fastest last input (I wanted to do at least better than Rayas not submitted run (And I did ~2k frames better)) As for building less city and waiting hours, it won't work because the City Population will max out before 600k and waiting hours won't change anything. Faster in game time would be hard, for getting it you may have to loose many input frames for apply the glitch that permit to go outside the map that permit to replace water with power cables, and manipulating luck to make the city growth faster. I'm too newbie to even know how to do that ...

Well, I voted yes. I'm not up to date on the current state of TASing this game, but I remember optimization was very difficult, and a lot of people seem to have put it on the back burner. I'm sure there's more optimal ways to do this game, but that's sort of the exact problem: games like these have so many possibilities that need testing that it's almost impossible to conquer, and they end up never getting a run because everyone who attempts them soon gives up. Short of someone breaking down the exact code that handles population growth, this game will never have an optimal run. Taking into account pollution, traffic, crime, land value, power, commercial/industrial/residential spread, RNG... yeah. I understand objections to its slow pace, but that's the purpose of tiered publications, right? I hope we have a place for this. To me, this is one of those "childhood games" I look back at nostalgically; I play it on emulator every few years, and it still has appeal. I thought this was a pretty good TAS, and it's long overdue for some love here.

Good for Vault. Yes vote. There should be two categories, shortest input and avi time.

I'm throwing in a yes. I can't say that entertainment value was on top, so it's a weak yes. Vault material perhaps. I think the dialogues ruins the enjoyment level a bit since they take for ever before they close down. In general it's a good execution of this game though. Not sure how to add in more entertainment.

But would a movie that, with the same or slightly key input length that got to 600k first, obsolete this one? A 500k and/or 600k timing with quickest input makes sense for this game...

yes vault,but what's the real objective here?600k?

Yes it's 600k. When I started to think about this TAS I was thinking 600k would be too hard but it is not. I believe it's better that I did 600k because of the "you're a great mayor" screen which is the last one while 500k is not. (even if it's the last one that many players managed to get)

It has been eight years from the time I made the original request. Now, the first TAS of this game has been submitted to the site, and it was all I could have hoped for out of a Sim City TAS. Solid "Meh".

Voted no. Sorry but I did not find this remotely entertaining.

Just a question to the NO-ers you mean NO for entertainment but still suitable for the vault? Or just NO overall? This is just a curiosity killed the cat question. (since it does say "Did you find this movie entertaining?")

I guess I agree most with Matriks404 here: * I vote "Meh" on entertainment, since the parts when input is still happening are fairly amusing at the end. December 1900 was a very busy time indeed. * Watching the development after input end is incredibly boring but technically amazing. * I like the idea of having this movie in a category for the Vault, but someone could then make a movie aiming for shortest video time (in-game time?), which would use completely different strategies and provide nice variety.

* I like the idea of having this movie in a category for the Vault, but someone could then make a movie aiming for shortest video time (in-game time?), which would use completely different strategies and provide nice variety.

I think someone doing faster real-time could be good. For in-game time I don't know, since every input seems to froze the time counter, so someone could do a slower TAS and still get a good IG-time (but a not so good real-time) :\ For fast real-time, closing as fast as possible things like city levels or gift can be good (because on my movie I think I loose some minutes in real-time because each is 30sec long if you don't close them), setting auto tax to on after doing money glitch and going in the city view you get at captital stage may win some real-time (Because you'll just get metropolis, megalopolis and 600k stages after you close it, and you wont get any polution/criminality alert and no tax screen). Doing that is purely for fastest real-time movie because it completly defeat the fastest last input. Maybe loosing time to use the offmap glitch (that permit to build power cables offmap wich comes in the map, potentialy on the water, permiting to delete the water afterwards) could be benefical for real-time and I think a bit of luck manipulation could be needed since SimCity use a RNG. Don't ask me to do that though, because I don't even know how memory viewer works... (I may watch more parts of the TAS tutorial later) But I think, even in fastest real-time movie you'll have to wait a long time, because SimCity is like this, population growth slowly and inputs froze time so no entertaining things like moving the cursor wiredly or anything can be done, fastest last input or fastest avi changes nothing you'll always have to wait.

This TAS comes from a French player and is commented in French. http://www.jeuxvideo.com/chroniques-video/0000/00001884/speed-game-simcity-super-nintendo-snes-objectif-600-000-habitants-00114700.htm

Nope thekdx... This TAS is mine, and my goal was to beat the one you sent. You can see I didn't even use the same pattern. French message for him : Dans les commentaires sur la video que tu as envoyé, le gars Arnold Rondel qui parle d'un TAS plus rapide fait en 3 jours c'est moi et c'est ce TAS la. Regarde la video youtube que j'ai envoyé en haut (ou avec le fichier d'input dans l'émulateur) tu vera bien que ce n'ai pas le même. Si je dit ça c'est pour une raison "I saw that a unsubmitted run was done" car rayas n'ai pas submit son run

technicaly ineresting, and tas paced run, yes vote Did you consult mr.K for a 600K strat, if i remember, he mentioned something about a 600K strat + you can check the gamefaqs board where he made his 500K strat.... also you did manage to do the glitch before reaching the end of the year, how did that append ?

Nope, my pattern is a little based of the one which is known to go at 600k stage (I don't know who made it, I saw this pattern in many places over the web, even in Rayas not submitted run) but I never asked someone if my way to do could work, I just tried it on snes9x (because I can make it run really fast on 9 frames skip) when failed I tryed to change what seemed bad until I get 600k population. I'm not sure but if I remember correctly my pattern have a little more I zones and less C zones than what Rayas uses in his run, and I think I have a little more zones in total, but that's a really small number. Doesn't having C into R zones and different mass traffic are the two bigger differences. I didn't tried to left the emulator opened after seeing 600k screen to see how many population can my pattern get but I think it's not that much higher With money glitch, seriously, I don't really know, but it's possible that, since I left only 1 frame without inputs to make the money value update, the time may simply need more than a single frame to go from end dec 1900 to start jan 1901 ? That doesn't change anything for me, after the tax screen pop up, you can do the glitch so being in December or January doesn't matter.

I have to vote Meh for entertainment, though I did really enjoy this run's technical value. If it can't (easily) be improved, then we should go ahead and publish it. Good job figuring out your own pattern as well as your own method of using the money glitch, Arnold0! That's pretty impressive for a new TASer.

Here's how the $999999 trick works... The automatic tax screen comes up and attempts to ensure that the maintenance percentages will not take more money than you have. The actual effects of maintenance will only happen one "clock tick" later, after you close the window. Holding any button prevents this "clock tick" from passing. The usual method, at this point, would have too little money to pay for maintenance and the auto-tax reduces the maintenance percents to fit. So it manually goes back into the tax screen to raise the maintenance again. This manually opened tax screen has no such safeguards in place to stop you from raising the maintenance. The method used here instead has enough money to pay for maintenance, so the auto-tax doesn't mess with your maintenance. However, while making sure that next "clock tick" doesn't happen, spend more money until you can't normally pay the maintenance. Now let time pass. Since the maintenance assumes the auto-tax did its job (a good assumption only if the player couldn't affect maintenance or money between these events), it takes your money, whether or not you have it. Thus, it sends the money to negative, then the game thinks it's a really big positive value, and clamps it to $999999. Someone wanted the trick explained, there you go. It's my interpretation, anyway. After all, I knew of the new method a few months ago. As someone who attempted to TAS this game, but lost motivation to do so... I will withhold my opinion unless someone specifically asks me to give it. It is not good, I will say that much for now.